Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   JK General Discussion Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/)
-   -   Leveling Kit Needed? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/leveling-kit-needed-170782.html)

Proxy404 07-02-2012 11:33 AM

Leveling Kit Needed?
 
So I'm thinking of buying this bumper:

http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Imag...46-add6-lg.jpg

It's a Rampage Recovery Bumper. I've heard some people talk about leveling kits and all. My first question is: What exactly IS a leveling kit. My second is: Will I need one if i decide to install this bumper?

N3M0 07-02-2012 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proxy404 (Post 2537062)
So I'm thinking of buying this bumper:

http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Imag...46-add6-lg.jpg

It's a Rampage Recovery Bumper. I've heard some people talk about leveling kits and all. My first question is: What exactly IS a leveling kit. My second is: Will I need one if i decide to install this bumper?


If you park your Jeep on a level surface and stand back about 15 yards a take a good, hard look at it, you will notice that the front end dips a bit(rake). Thus making the jeep "unlevel." A leveling kit takes out the factory rake and gives you a little bit of a boost at the same time to give the jeep a nice, level look.

Proxy404 07-02-2012 11:52 AM

Gotcha. So then why do they build them with the rake? Or is it just based on the fact that they put the same suspension on all four tires and the shocks in the front have more weight because of the engine so they drop a little more?

DJL2 07-02-2012 11:54 AM

Will you need a leveling kit? No, not technically. Will you want one? I'll make the assumption you want to retain your stock ride height and appearance and say yes. That's a sweet lookin' beast of a bumper - if you do a search, you'll find it's well on the plus side of 100 lbs.

Check this link for a general idea: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/sto...ght-84074.html

It's going to compress your springs some. That said, there are two basic aspects of suspension function to consider to any lift - springs and shocks (not getting into suspension geometry here, since we'll assume you are staying as close to stock as possible). Leveling kits are lift kits with the goal of raising the front end to a greater degree than the back end to either compensate for the stock rake of your Jeep (which some find unpleasant) or to compensate for sag due to additional wait. So, a leveling kit will either a.) add a stouter spring up front to compensate for the weight of your bumper/winch/stuff or b.) use a spacer of some kind.

With a spacer lift, you're moving the suspension's static load position within the shock's range of travel, but you're not effecting the springs overall compression. Hopefully, ICW your shocks, the spacer keeps you away from coil bind during high speed compression. Your overall spring compression will still be limited for low speed compression, but up travel is less a concern in this situation. Down travel is a less a concern, you'll have more of it relative your static load height assuming your shocks can accommodate the additional extension. In this case, your down travel is what you started with + what you spacer added, something to be mindful of.

As far as spring lift/leveling kits go the issue is spring length and spring rate. You could nearly eliminate sag with a strong enough spring...and the ride would suffer accordingly. An easier way to go is use a longer coil at close to the stock spring rate. The ride height comes up because you started with a longer coil in the first place. Now, more coils means the spring will be taller at coil bind, so you might still lose a little up travel if you're compressing it to that extent, but it will certainly be less than with a spacer. Obviously, with a longer spring overall you will see greater down travel here as well.

Does that help at all?

DJL2 07-02-2012 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proxy404 (Post 2537136)
Gotcha. So then why do they build them with the rake? Or is it just based on the fact that they put the same suspension on all four tires and the shocks in the front have more weight because of the engine so they drop a little more?

Get under your Jeep and take a look at the springs. You'll quickly see that the front and rear springs and shocks are different animals. They're different lengths and thicknesses. Rake does help the Jeep's aerodynamics, such as they are. A little bit of rake also helps for folks that load the rear of the Jeep with cargo. If it matters, Aussies seem to like a little rake on their 4x4s. :D

Also, springs take the weight...the shocks damp suspension response. You could take the shocks off entirely (though it would be...uh...interesting).

Vroooom 07-02-2012 12:03 PM

Sure helps me.
I've been wondering wtf a leveling kit was about.
Didnt have the huevos to ask.

Thanks.

rics1997 07-02-2012 12:10 PM

That picture just reminds me how much I miss my Goodyear MTR's. Really liked those tires.

You need that hood too lol

rics1997 07-02-2012 12:11 PM

What side rails are on that Jeep? They look sharp from what I see

tabber02 07-02-2012 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rics1997 (Post 2537199)
What side rails are on that Jeep? They look sharp from what I see

if you're talking about kbbwolf's photo, i believe they are ACE Engineering Rock Rails.... here's the link:

ACE JK Rock Sliders (4 Door)

:thumb:

Harleyrider1108 07-02-2012 12:36 PM

I did the TF leveling kit a month or so ago. Couldn't have been easier and it really improved the stance.

:wavey:

Proxy404 07-02-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL2 (Post 2537144)
Will you need a leveling kit? No, not technically. Will you want one? I'll make the assumption you want to retain your stock ride height and appearance and say yes. That's a sweet lookin' beast of a bumper - if you do a search, you'll find it's well on the plus side of 100 lbs.

Check this link for a general idea: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/sto...ght-84074.html

It's going to compress your springs some. That said, there are two basic aspects of suspension function to consider to any lift - springs and shocks (not getting into suspension geometry here, since we'll assume you are staying as close to stock as possible). Leveling kits are lift kits with the goal of raising the front end to a greater degree than the back end to either compensate for the stock rake of your Jeep (which some find unpleasant) or to compensate for sag due to additional wait. So, a leveling kit will either a.) add a stouter spring up front to compensate for the weight of your bumper/winch/stuff or b.) use a spacer of some kind.

With a spacer lift, you're moving the suspension's static load position within the shock's range of travel, but you're not effecting the springs overall compression. Hopefully, ICW your shocks, the spacer keeps you away from coil bind during high speed compression. Your overall spring compression will still be limited for low speed compression, but up travel is less a concern in this situation. Down travel is a less a concern, you'll have more of it relative your static load height assuming your shocks can accommodate the additional extension. In this case, your down travel is what you started with + what you spacer added, something to be mindful of.

As far as spring lift/leveling kits go the issue is spring length and spring rate. You could nearly eliminate sag with a strong enough spring...and the ride would suffer accordingly. An easier way to go is use a longer coil at close to the stock spring rate. The ride height comes up because you started with a longer coil in the first place. Now, more coils means the spring will be taller at coil bind, so you might still lose a little up travel if you're compressing it to that extent, but it will certainly be less than with a spacer. Obviously, with a longer spring overall you will see greater down travel here as well.

Does that help at all?

Couldn't ask for a better description. That's exactly what I was looking for.

So follow up question. When on the trails, would it be smart to have a leveling kit installed? Especially if I install an extra 100 lbs to the front? I'm assuming yes because it will give you a little more clearance on the approach.

Proxy404 07-02-2012 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rics1997 (Post 2537197)
That picture just reminds me how much I miss my Goodyear MTR's. Really liked those tires.

You need that hood too lol


Quote:

Originally Posted by rics1997 (Post 2537199)
What side rails are on that Jeep? They look sharp from what I see

Those tires look pretty sick. That's just the stock pic on the Rampage website so I'm not sure what it's all equipped with.

NFRs2000NYC 07-02-2012 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proxy404 (Post 2537062)
So I'm thinking of buying this bumper:

http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Imag...46-add6-lg.jpg

It's a Rampage Recovery Bumper. I've heard some people talk about leveling kits and all. My first question is: What exactly IS a leveling kit. My second is: Will I need one if i decide to install this bumper?

You never NEED a leveling kit. I have this bumper. It weighs in at about 90lbs without the winchplate/winch. When you install it, depending on the model JK you have, you will have anywhere from .25 to 1" of sagging. The stock JK already comes "raked" (front slightly lower than the rear). While this SLIGHTLY (not really, but they claim it does) improves aerodynamics, it makes the Jeep look "puny" and carlike. Most people want a leveling kit for the stance.

Here is my bumper on the day I installed it.....

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...b/ef671fe2.jpg

Here it is after I installed the new whees/tires, but no leveling kit...see how the front is lower than the rear?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...b/65923c52.jpg

After Teraflex coil leveling kit (2" front 1"rear) the truck now sits level and looks awesome.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8163/7...c2ac309a_b.jpg

Don't worry about the kit for now. Buy the bumper. Before you install it, measure the OEM height from floor to fender. Then, after that, install the bumper and measure the same point again. This will give you the difference in sag. When you order the leveling kit, you may also want to buy two spacers for the front to get it perfect (like .5" spacers or whatever.) I also recommend you do the leveling kit AFTER you install everything you want ie, bumper, winch, etc. That will sag your bumper, and you will be able to compensate ONCE, unlike me, that will have to do it again when my winch comes and I have to add a small spacer.

P.S. If you want to see what I mean by sag, go you your front bumper, and push down on it. You will see the Jeep drop down. That's sag.

NFRs2000NYC 07-02-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroooom (Post 2537172)
Sure helps me.
I've been wondering wtf a leveling kit was about.
Didnt have the huevos to ask.

Thanks.

Never feel "unmanly" to ask a question, no matter how dumb it might be. We all started from zero, and there is no shame (in fact, most of us find it honorable) in asking. You would look like a MUCH bigger jackass if you did sometime stupid or got yourself in a dumb situation because you were too afraid to ask rather than asking, and knowing. We are all here to help.

Proxy404 07-02-2012 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC (Post 2537501)
You never NEED a leveling kit. I have this bumper. It weighs in at about 90lbs without the winchplate/winch. When you install it, depending on the model JK you have, you will have anywhere from .25 to 1" of sagging. The stock JK already comes "raked" (front slightly lower than the rear). While this SLIGHTLY (not really, but they claim it does) improves aerodynamics, it makes the Jeep look "puny" and carlike. Most people want a leveling kit for the stance.

Here is my bumper on the day I installed it.....

Here it is after I installed the new whees/tires, but no leveling kit...see how the front is lower than the rear?

After Teraflex coil leveling kit (2" front 1"rear) the truck now sits level and looks awesome.

Don't worry about the kit for now. Buy the bumper. Before you install it, measure the OEM height from floor to fender. Then, after that, install the bumper and measure the same point again. This will give you the difference in sag. When you order the leveling kit, you may also want to buy two spacers for the front to get it perfect (like .5" spacers or whatever.) I also recommend you do the leveling kit AFTER you install everything you want ie, bumper, winch, etc. That will sag your bumper, and you will be able to compensate ONCE, unlike me, that will have to do it again when my winch comes and I have to add a small spacer.

P.S. If you want to see what I mean by sag, go you your front bumper, and push down on it. You will see the Jeep drop down. That's sag.

Perfect. I have a Dozer as well and was going to ask if anyone had pictures. That bumper looks good on it. And thanks for the experience tips. I'll definitely wait till it's all installed before I get the leveling kit.


Quote:

Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC (Post 2537506)
Never feel "unmanly" to ask a question, no matter how dumb it might be. We all started from zero, and there is no shame (in fact, most of us find it honorable) in asking. You would look like a MUCH bigger jackass if you did sometime stupid or got yourself in a dumb situation because you were too afraid to ask rather than asking, and knowing. We are all here to help.

Completely agree. I'm still pretty new here but from all of the posts I've seen, and this one especially, everyone here is more than willing to help. Just give the search bar a quick hit before starting a new thread for questions.

NFRs2000NYC 07-02-2012 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proxy404 (Post 2537566)
Perfect. I have a Dozer as well and was going to ask if anyone had pictures. That bumper looks good on it. And thanks for the experience tips. I'll definitely wait till it's all installed before I get the leveling kit.




Completely agree. I'm still pretty new here but from all of the posts I've seen, and this one especially, everyone here is more than willing to help. Just give the search bar a quick hit before starting a new thread for questions.

Mine is actually Crush, not dozer. Just that in very bright sunlight, the iphone makes it look exactly like dozer.

DJL2 07-02-2012 02:31 PM

Quote:

Couldn't ask for a better description. That's exactly what I was looking for.

So follow up question. When on the trails, would it be smart to have a leveling kit installed? Especially if I install an extra 100 lbs to the front? I'm assuming yes because it will give you a little more clearance on the approach.
I agree with NFR - check your starting point, add your accessories and then determine what you need to get to where you want to be.

A leveling kit/lift can definitely help you out off road for the reasons you mention. One thing I'd add, if you have an Unlimited, you probably make more money on your break over angle. Even if you lose height at the front, the bumper is still going to help some on approach and you might come out ahead anyhow.

NFRs2000NYC 07-02-2012 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL2 (Post 2537634)
I agree with NFR - check your starting point, add your accessories and then determine what you need to get to where you want to be.

A leveling kit/lift can definitely help you out off road for the reasons you mention. One thing I'd add, if you have an Unlimited, you probably make more money on your break over angle. Even if you lose height at the front, the bumper is still going to help some on approach and you might come out ahead anyhow.

Honestly, I get what you are saying, but you are seldom going to find an aftermarket bumper that is smaller in profile than the OEM one. Other than that plastic skidplate thing in the front, the stock bumper is pretty low profile. I agree though, many aftermarket bumpers do indeed protrude less from the front, allowing a better breakover angle.:thumb:

JOCJK 07-02-2012 03:04 PM

NFRs, where is that waterfall pic from? Certainly doesnt look like NYC. HA! Originally from Yonkers.

strider_mt2k 07-02-2012 03:09 PM

After loading up my JKUR for a recent vacation I noticed that the extra weight in the back almost canceled the factory rake.

What happens to a vehicle that has been leveled and now has weight in the back?
Will the ass end now tend to look 'draggy' because of that?

NFRs2000NYC 07-02-2012 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOCJK (Post 2537749)
NFRs, where is that waterfall pic from? Certainly doesnt look like NYC. HA! Originally from Yonkers.

Stokes State Forest in Northern NJ. :thumb:

NFRs2000NYC 07-02-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider_mt2k (Post 2537773)
After loading up my JKUR for a recent vacation I noticed that the extra weight in the back almost canceled the factory rake.

What happens to a vehicle that has been leveled and now has weight in the back?
Will the ass end now tend to look 'draggy' because of that?

Well, weight in the back is usually temporary. If you install something like a bigger bumper in the rear, along with bigger tires, then yes, your rear can squat as well. This can be cured with spacers to compensate, but again, follow my post above. Do ALL your mods. Winch, bumpers, tires, racks, etc...everything permanent basically and keep track of the new measurements. THEN, when EVERYTHING is done, fix the suspension. If you have to putz around with the suspension every time you add a mod you're going to be very annoyed.

N3M0 07-02-2012 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroooom
Sure helps me.
I've been wondering wtf a leveling kit was about.
Didnt have the huevos to ask.

Thanks.

Lol vroom


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:10 AM.