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-   -   Rubicon + soupy mud + hill =? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/rubicon-soupy-mud-hill-174803.html)

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:02 AM

Rubicon + soupy mud + hill =?
 
I'm somewhat of a Jeep noob and don't know anyone else with a Jeep, so I'm flying blind and teaching myself adventure after adventure. Yesterday, I almost got myself into trouble and was hoping I might ask you all for advice on the proper way to have gotten myself out of trouble.

I have the 2012 Rubicon Unlimited. I got it because, as a photographer and a nature recording guy, I needed to get into some locations which weren't accessible to me in the past. Yesterday, some VERY nasty storms and hard rain passed, so I hopped in my Jeep and raced to the middle of the storm to get photos of lightning and audio recordings of thunder.

I found a cool dirt road and proceed to follow until I found an newly bulldozed area where they're eventually going to build a new subdivision. All of the dirt was really, really loose and some piled in large mounds, etc. I thought this might be a fun place to learn more about my Jeep so I proceeded to run around through the mud. All was well until I turned around to go back up the hill and....the Rubicon didn't want to move.

Because the rain was so hard, the mud was nothing more than a deep soup like you might find at a tractor pull. I found myself just kinda burying deeper and deeper and, at best, moving about 1/2 mph. When I would move, I would also slowly slip sideways. I was worried I was eventually going to crash into some trees and really be stuck.

I worked with it, put it into 4WDL, and after about 10 min of adrenaline, I finally got it out. I was embarrassed more than anything because it would have been pretty bad to call a tow truck to pull me out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of a hard storm when I am the one who is supposed to have the bad ass Jeep lol.

Admittedly, I had not done my homework. I'd been meaning to read more about this kind of situation and, perhaps, if I should have used front and rear axle lock (which I didn't). Most of the driving I've done so far, because of the recent drought, has been in rocky and hilly areas. I've been having a blast in semi-dry creek beds, etc.

Sooo...I'm asking you all here for advice. What would've been the best strategy for climbing a low-angle hill with six inches of pure soup-mud?

Thanks :)

daggo66 07-19-2012 10:11 AM

Step one, do not drive where you do not have permission. I'm pretty sure the crew building the new sub division isn't happy about having things torn up.

You were becoming bogged down because your traction control system was trying to limit your wheel spin. That is exactly what you don't want to happen in mud. After shifting into 4H, hold the ESP button for 5 secs. Your lockers can be activated in 4L, however 4L is probably not the best choice in the conditions you described.

ESP 07-19-2012 10:15 AM

I hate mud and wheeling alone is dangerous and never a good idea.

Other than that 4H is what you want not 4L. The lower gear provides too much torque and is not for mud. You will bury yourself deeper using it. Have your jeep in 4H BEFORE you need it and turn off ESP. Anticipate using it and get ready beforehand. Once in mud or loose terrain, rotate the steering wheel back and forth turning the wheel as to grab the surrounding edges of mud in gaining traction. Maintain momentum and when possible avoid mud like the plague. :thumb:

jagerhelix 07-19-2012 10:19 AM

The lockers would have helped immensily. Without them your jeep will try to send power to the two wheels with the least traction(one front, one rear). So if you had a tire with little to no traction it would recieve all the power while your other tire wouldn't. So essentially you had one tire in the front and one on the back spinning and slowly moving you forward as they clear mud out of them.

Now if you had your lockers engaged. It would have provided 100% of your power to all four tires regardless of the levels of traction they had (true four wheel drive). I think it would be worth putting yourself back in the same type of spot (not a construction site) just to see the difference and capability of running with locked differentials. And with mud you want to keep the tires moving so they can clear out the mud and continue grabbing to pull you forward. As mentioned above, 4H would be preffered due to the very low gearing you have in 4L

Good luck! Awesome story

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66 (Post 2601119)
Step one, do not drive where you do not have permission. I'm pretty sure the crew building the new sub division isn't happy about having things torn up.

Hard to explain as I didn't provide every possible detail, but this location under this particular circumstance, I'm very aware that it was fine that I be there. Too long to explain everything about this.


Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66 (Post 2601119)
You were becoming bogged down because your traction control system was trying to limit your wheel spin. That is exactly what you don't want to happen in mud. After shifting into 4H, hold the ESP button for 5 secs. Your lockers can be activated in 4L, however 4L is probably not the best choice in the conditions you described.

I'm used to cars (and now even my motorcycle) where I can turn traction control on and off. I was surprised to see the traction light coming on with the sudden realization that I didn't really have the ability to adjust it.

Sorry, but what is the ESP button? I only have Axle Lock and Sway Bar buttons...right?

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagerhelix (Post 2601151)
The lockers would have helped immensily. Without them your jeep will try to send power to the two wheels with the least traction(one front, one rear). So if you had a tire with little to no traction it would recieve all the power while your other tire wouldn't. So essentially you had one tire in the front and one on the back spinning and slowly moving you forward as they clear mud out of them.

Now if you had your lockers engaged. It would have provided 100% of your power to all four tires regardless of the levels of traction they had (true four wheel drive). I think it would be worth putting yourself back in the same type of spot (not a construction site) just to see the difference and capability of running with locked differentials. And with mud you want to keep the tires moving so they can clear out the mud and continue grabbing to pull you forward.

Good luck! Awesome story

Thanks for that! Your advice is similar to a few things I was reading on other forums (I began doing my homework the moment I got back home safely). I just know all of you here have much more experience and I'm hoping a little of it will rub off on me lol

CapnRich22 07-19-2012 10:25 AM

http://image.jpmagazine.com/f/180563...esp_button.jpg

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:25 AM

Yeah, I'm looking here and I definitely don't have this button

http://image.jpmagazine.com/f/180563...esp_button.jpg

Is that on automatic models?

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:26 AM

Funny Capnrich22...we did the same google :)

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP (Post 2601135)
I hate mud and wheeling alone is dangerous and never a good idea.


Yes on both accounts. I was just testing and it was kinda spontaneous which was why I was by myself. Certainly this might be a good reason to consider a winch in the future.

CapnRich22 07-19-2012 10:28 AM

hahha nice!... i don't have a rubicon but i have an automatic X model and i have the ESP

daggo66 07-19-2012 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandenburg (Post 2601157)
Sorry, but what is the ESP button? I only have Axle Lock and Sway Bar buttons...right?

It's to the right of those buttons.

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66 (Post 2601208)
It's to the right of those buttons.

Yep. As I have manual shift, I don't seem to have that option. I think I now remember seeing that it's only an automatic transmission option.

daggo66 07-19-2012 10:40 AM

This mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use
when ESP stability features could inhibit vehicle maneuverability
due to trail conditions. This mode is entered by
pressing and holding the ESP OFF switch for five seconds
when the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running. In
this mode, all ESP and TCS stability features are turned
off except for the “limited slip” feature described in the
TCS section. After five seconds, a chime will sound, the
“ESP/TCS Indicator Light” will illuminate, and the “ESP
OFF
 message will appear in the odometer. Refer to
“Compass and Mini-Trip Computer — If Equipped” in
Section 4 of this manual. To turn ESP on again, momentarily
press the ESP OFF switch. This will restore the
normal “ESP On” mode of operation.

NOTE:
The ESP system will change to “Partial Off” mode if
the vehicle speed exceeds 40 mph (64 km/h). After the
vehicle speed is reduced below 35 mph (56 km/h), the
ESP system will return to “Full Off” mode.

The “ESP OFF” message will display and the audible
chime will sound when the shift lever is placed in the
PARK position from any position other than PARK,
and then moved out of the PARK position. This will

occur even if the message was previously cleared.

KittyPrawn 07-19-2012 10:40 AM

As far as I understand it, ESP (as well as the kill-switch) is standard in Jeeps. You might be a little concerned if you are 100% certain that button doesn't exist..

daggo66 07-19-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandenburg (Post 2601224)
Yep. As I have manual shift, I don't seem to have that option. I think I now remember seeing that it's only an automatic transmission option.

Negative.

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66 (Post 2601225)
This mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use
when ESP stability features could inhibit vehicle maneuverability
due to trail conditions. This mode is entered by
pressing and holding the ESP OFF switch for five seconds
when the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running. In
this mode, all ESP and TCS stability features are turned
off except for the “limited slip” feature described in the
TCS section. After five seconds, a chime will sound, the
“ESP/TCS Indicator Light” will illuminate, and the “ESP
OFF
 message will appear in the odometer. Refer to
“Compass and Mini-Trip Computer — If Equipped” in
Section 4 of this manual. To turn ESP on again, momentarily
press the ESP OFF switch. This will restore the
normal “ESP On” mode of operation.

NOTE:
The ESP system will change to “Partial Off” mode if
the vehicle speed exceeds 40 mph (64 km/h). After the
vehicle speed is reduced below 35 mph (56 km/h), the
ESP system will return to “Full Off” mode.

The “ESP OFF” message will display and the audible
chime will sound when the shift lever is placed in the
PARK position from any position other than PARK,
and then moved out of the PARK position. This will

occur even if the message was previously cleared.



I think I remember seeing this option used in the Jeep training vids that came on the dvd. In the video, the hubby and wife were traveling down a steep, rocky hill....that's when I realized I didn't have it.

daggo66 07-19-2012 10:45 AM

You are confusing this with hill descent control. All JK's have ESP and the button.

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 10:50 AM

I am confusing hill descent...you're right.
I stand corrected -- at least partially. I just went out and snapped to shots of my buttons

http://i.imgur.com/SkPfT.jpg

Looks like mine isn't marked ESP, but just has an icon. I really haven't messed with it much.

daggo66 07-19-2012 10:57 AM

That's it. Shift to 4H and hold that in for 5 seconds. You will hear a beep and your display will read ESP OFF. It will allow your wheels to spin (which cleans the mud from your tires) without braking and reducing power. You want it off in deep mud, sand or snow when off road. On the road it helps prevent a loss of vehicle control.

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66 (Post 2601288)
That's it. Shift to 4H and hold that in for 5 seconds. You will hear a beep and your display will read ESP OFF. It will allow your wheels to spin (which cleans the mud from your tires) without braking and reducing power. You want it off in deep mud, sand or snow when off road. On the road it helps prevent a loss of vehicle control.

Thanks! You all gave me the answers I was needing. I had forgotten that I did have the traction control button (not one I use much...especially since we had a near-snow free winter). I'm gonna go look for some places to mess around with it. :)

daggo66 07-19-2012 11:18 AM

:thumb:

twxsby 07-19-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Shift to 4H and hold that in for 5 seconds.
This confuses me, when I engage 4WD, it automatically disengages ESP, and when in 2WD, I only have to push the button, do not have to hold it for 5 seconds.

daggo66 07-19-2012 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twxsby (Post 2601467)
This confuses me, when I engage 4WD, it automatically disengages ESP, and when in 2WD, I only have to push the button, do not have to hold it for 5 seconds.

4LOW disengages it automatically. 4HIGH does not and it needs to be held in for 5 seconds for it to be FULLY off. Pressing it once in 4H turns it partially off as it would be in 2WD. You cannot turn it FULLY off in 2WD.

CapnRich22 07-19-2012 12:15 PM

twxsby i think there is a partial disengage, and a full disengage... not 100%

jpstoner 07-19-2012 01:34 PM

So I was about to ask about ESP but then...
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/ple...-me-54624.html

Brandenburg 07-19-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpstoner (Post 2601911)
So I was about to ask about ESP but then...
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/ple...-me-54624.html

Informative thread. Thanks.


A few moments ago, I completely disengaged mine (which shows an icon and not the letters ESP). A dashlight lit up and called is ESC (maybe they changed the name?)

ESP 07-19-2012 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandenburg (Post 2601258)
I am confusing hill descent...you're right.
I stand corrected -- at least partially. I just went out and snapped to shots of my buttons

http://i.imgur.com/SkPfT.jpg

Looks like mine isn't marked ESP, but just has an icon. I really haven't messed with it much.

Nice...an off road button. :popcorn:

ESP 07-19-2012 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpstoner (Post 2601911)
So I was about to ask about ESP but then...

Yes?

VizzJK 07-19-2012 10:01 PM

does the 5 second rule apply to a 2007??


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