Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   Land Use Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f116/)
-   -   Are your trails being attacked like they are here in California? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f116/are-your-trails-being-attacked-like-they-are-here-in-california-178861.html)

USMC 0369 08-07-2012 12:42 PM

Are your trails being attacked like they are here in California?
 
This year it seems we are under a major offensive to close our trails here in Kalifornia. Are your trails being assaulted like ours are?

Tahoe National Forest cut off 800 miles of trail to recreational access.

The Western Mojave Desert proposals to shut down access to our trails.

The San Bernardino National Forest is proposing to shut down 50 miles of trails to the public.

Although I don't consider this to be a move to deny us access to public lands...we stand to lose Johnson Valley, CA as well.

And as if that wasn't enough, some idiot out here in Kali is trying to pass a law that 'might' require Jeep drivers to wear helmets when offroad.

So, are you guys in other states going through all this crap too?

530ktm 08-07-2012 04:44 PM

Nice. It is always nice to know that we have an endless supply of idiots thinking and making laws for all of us to follow. If it were not for these morons we may not be here today. :rofl:

USMC 0369 08-08-2012 09:56 AM

Whats sad is that many people now depend on the gov't to save them from their own stupidity.

Redsand 08-08-2012 09:59 AM

All is good here, no enviro-nazis for a thousand miles,

Cons_Table 08-08-2012 10:06 AM

I feel like this one could be argued pretty easily...because who is to say a jeep is "Designed by the manufacturer for operation primarily off of
the highway?" I am pretty sure 99% of jeeps driven off the lot see more road time than offroad time. It also states "DESIGNED BY THE MANUFACTURER" so that voids any custom suspension/fab work done by yourself or any offroad shop around. :popcorn:

As far as the rest of your articles...it is unfortunate that they have to try and take the land away from us.

USMC 0369 08-08-2012 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cons_Table (Post 2664739)
I feel like this one could be argued pretty easily...because who is to say a jeep is "Designed by the manufacturer for operation primarily off of
the highway?" I am pretty sure 99% of jeeps driven off the lot see more road time than offroad time. It also states "DESIGNED BY THE MANUFACTURER" so that voids any custom suspension/fab work done by yourself or any offroad shop around. :popcorn:

As far as the rest of your articles...it is unfortunate that they have to try and take the land away from us.

I believe the law was aimed at those side-by-side vehicles you see popping up all over. Kalifornia doesn't know how to deal with them yet. The liberal use of the word Jeep is probably not intentional, but could be harmful.

As for the rest of it...route closings have happened because the Forest Service gets no response from the public. Zero... So they think everyone is ok with it. If we in Kalifornia aren't actively stopping this, we'll end up like Michigan and such places where you can only wheel on private property or in pay-to-play offroad parks. I hate sounding like a dooms-day paranoid conspiracy theory person... but just because people aren't paranoid doesn't mean others aren't plotting against them. ;)

USMC 0369 08-09-2012 02:41 PM

BTW... The "Helmet Law" has already been passed and signed by Gov. Brown. This should get interesting.

G-Mike 08-09-2012 03:03 PM

Helmuts required for wheeling in CA
 
How did this ever happen? Law now says you have to wear a helmut if you drive a jeep.

Bill Text: CA Assembly Bill 1595 - 2011-2012 Session | LegiScan

Cons_Table 08-09-2012 03:16 PM

Guess who wont be wearin a helmet...:whistling:

USMC 0369 08-09-2012 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Mike (Post 2669049)
How did this ever happen? Law now says you have to wear a helmut if you drive a jeep.

Bill Text: CA Assembly Bill 1595 - 2011-2012 Session | LegiScan

Short answer: Apathy

The crux of this whole thing is the definition of an "off-highway" vehicle. Jeeps are "on-highway" vehicles (example: they have license plates).

MY INTERPRETATION* ..... Off-highway vehicles are vehicles designed by the manufacturer to be used primarily off-road or on-highway vehicles modified in a manner that does not allow them to be plated anymore.

*I'm not a lawyer at all, this is just what I'm going to tell a judge if I get a ticket for being in my Jeep off-road without a helmet.

G-Mike 08-09-2012 04:02 PM

Just took a look at my NM registration. Vehicle is classified as a truck (will be my excuse to the judge)

I lived in both NoCal and San Diego for many years and have many friends who spend a lot of time in the desert. Hits home for me.

TheDesertOutlaw 08-09-2012 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMC 0369 (Post 2669088)
Short answer: Apathy

I produced this video showing the Rubicon Owners of California traversing the Bullfrog trail in Johnson Valley.

Bullfrog Trail - Johnson Valley, CA with the Rubicon Owners of California - YouTube

Not sure what effect I could have in producing it and sharing it on-line, but I did what I am able in order to support our sport.

bbtj 08-09-2012 07:50 PM

Read the Whole Thing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by USMC 0369 (Post 2669088)
Short answer: Apathy

The crux of this whole thing is the definition of an "off-highway" vehicle. Jeeps are "on-highway" vehicles (example: they have license plates).

MY INTERPRETATION* ..... Off-highway vehicles are vehicles designed by the manufacturer to be used primarily off-road or on-highway vehicles modified in a manner that does not allow them to be plated anymore.

*I'm not a lawyer at all, this is just what I'm going to tell a judge if I get a ticket for being in my Jeep off-road without a helmet.

If you read the whole thing, it also says any vehicle refered to as a jeep. I know one thing, if that stays in effect and they enforce it, I won't be going to California again. I kind of wonder how that is going to effect all the events and jamborees that go on at the Rubicon.

BeantownR6 08-09-2012 08:59 PM

aside from trail being shut down, who the hell is going to patrol trails to check if we are wearing helmets! there are so many trail in California.

its illegal to drink on the trails and not wear a seat belt, even thought i don't condone these actions, people do it and they are not out giving dui's to people on the trails.

id like to see them try and enforce something like this haha! like the chp is going to drive their cop cruiser down john bull and stake out on the trail

TheDesertOutlaw 08-09-2012 11:54 PM

Check out cal4wheel.org for access info.

whiteyj 08-10-2012 12:06 AM

Ah yes our fine Republik of Kalifornia. Can't speak to So Cal but up north, they're closing trails and campsites with lightening speed. Take my guns, take my outdoor recreation, all within their plot to reduce us to the huddled masses that will put up with their BS......Ran into some idiot at a recent Friends of the NRA Dinner........Wants to be our representative in the worst way but had no head for the tough questions about concealed carry and OHV trails......:banghead::banghead:

TheDesertOutlaw 08-10-2012 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteyj (Post 2670544)
Wants to be our representative in the worst way but had no head for the tough questions about concealed carry and OHV trails......:banghead::banghead:


You want to carry your concealed weapon on a 4WD trail? Why?

Cons_Table 08-10-2012 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDesertOutlaw

You want to carry your concealed weapon on a 4WD trail? Why?

Why not? Although I think whitey's comment was two separate thoughts...

530ktm 08-10-2012 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMC 0369 (Post 2668983)
BTW... The "Helmet Law" has already been passed and signed by Gov. Brown. This should get interesting.

Good ole Jerry Brown. I am glad to see he is so hard at work signing in valid laws. If we could ever get some politicians worth a crap anywhere in this country we would all be in a better place.

USMC 0369 08-10-2012 08:43 AM

My thoughts on the helmet law are that they are working with words in a dual meaning.

They didn't capitalize the word "jeep" in the law. "Jeep" is a name brand of product, whereas "jeep" is a word used to describe 'off-highway vehicles' that you don't know what else to call them. Yes its semantics, but the "letter of the law" wins over interpretation.

As for the systematic closure of trails in California...that's the point I was trying to get at. It seems this year, we're being hit really hard, much harder than in years past. I think the greenie movement is seeing the liberal agenda possibly being removed from Washington and want to get these areas cut off before they don't have influence anymore.

Desert Outlaw: Very cool video. I enjoyed it. I know you probably have, but did you write a letter or make comments during the JV comments period? Did your friends? Did your parents? I implore everyone I can to write a letter, even if they don't offroad. These public spaces are important to so many diverse groups. My dad has never been to JV, but he may want to some day. Just to fly a model airplane or go camping...

As for carrying a weapon on the trail... I have no problem with that. In fact, up in the Big Bear area, the rangers have been shot at by people trying to protect their pot farms, or that think you're trying to steal their gold claims. I don't like the feeling of being shot at, without at least a sidearm of my own.

sparky 08-10-2012 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDesertOutlaw (Post 2670570)
You want to carry your concealed weapon on a 4WD trail? Why?

Correct, trail riding should be open carry.

TheDesertOutlaw 08-10-2012 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMC 0369 (Post 2671165)
Desert Outlaw: Very cool video. I enjoyed it. I know you probably have, but did you write a letter or make comments during the JV comments period? Did your friends? Did your parents? I implore everyone I can to write a letter, even if they don't offroad. These public spaces are important to so many diverse groups. My dad has never been to JV, but he may want to some day. Just to fly a model airplane or go camping...

As for carrying a weapon on the trail... I have no problem with that. In fact, up in the Big Bear area, the rangers have been shot at by people trying to protect their pot farms, or that think you're trying to steal their gold claims. I don't like the feeling of being shot at, without at least a sidearm of my own.

That's too bad that growers are using our public lands for their profit. In that case, I say, "Go for it!"

As for letter writing, I did write a letter to U.S. Congressman Ken Calvert imploring our public usage on public lands (on Facebook). As a life-long Democrat, I disagree with Calvert's stand on opposing the DREAM Act, and his party's false puritanical stance: :whistling::doh:
Ken Calvert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But, when it comes to land-use issues, Politicians like Calvert are all we have. Leading me to support someone like him in order that I can enjoy the outdoors with the least amount of restrictions that could be placed on those who enjoy this sport. I know this probably made everyone angry, but I am just being honest.:hide:

USMC 0369 08-13-2012 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDesertOutlaw (Post 2672603)
That's too bad that growers are using our public lands for their profit. In that case, I say, "Go for it!"

As for letter writing, I did write a letter to U.S. Congressman Ken Calvert imploring our public usage on public lands (on Facebook). As a life-long Democrat, I disagree with Calvert's stand on opposing the DREAM Act, and his party's false puritanical stance: :whistling::doh:
Ken Calvert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But, when it comes to land-use issues, Politicians like Calvert are all we have. Leading me to support someone like him in order that I can enjoy the outdoors with the least amount of restrictions that could be placed on those who enjoy this sport. I know this probably made everyone angry, but I am just being honest.:hide:

Angry? Naaa... This isn't a left or right issue. I probably showed biased by calling the Green movements agenda "liberal". I do believe it's accurate to say that the enviro-nazi's agenda is to close public land to public's use.

Now, don't get me wrong... I think preserving our trails & forests for future generations is very important. We ARE losing our open spaces. I am for preserving the environment from abuse and destruction, but I'm not for denying everyone vs. punishing the few.

Calvert's an idiot, but both sides of the isle have their morons.

ferninAZ 08-13-2012 02:31 PM

We lost one of our local trails, not to enviro nazis or the safety police, but to a mining company. Literally put a gate up right before the best part of the trail. You can see the obstacle from the gate, but cant get around the gate.

holecardsrwild 08-14-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbtj (Post 2669813)
If you read the whole thing, it also says any vehicle refered to as a jeep. I know one thing, if that stays in effect and they enforce it, I won't be going to California again. I kind of wonder how that is going to effect all the events and jamborees that go on at the Rubicon.

I read through the entire text, and I don't think we have to wear helmets. The law defines 2 classes of off highway vehicle: "off-highway motor vehicle subject to identification" and a subcategory, "recreational off-highway vehicle". All of the rules in chapter 8 specifically refer to the "recreational off-highway vehicle" subcategory, which are the vehicles designed primarily for off-road use. Jeeps are called out under the broader category, but don't fit the criteria of the recreational class.

As I interpret it, the helmet law doesn't apply to us. I'm not a lawyer though, so of course make your own decisions on this one.

MarkNog 08-15-2012 10:31 PM

One of the trail in a wildlife management area about 2 miles from my house was just shut down, and this was a trail to the highest point in the entire town, and also some of the first dirt that my jeep ever touched... many good times behind that no vehicles sign and chain.

USMC 0369 08-16-2012 08:35 AM

Did they give a reason why it was shut down? Any warning at all for the public to comment on keeping it open?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.