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-   -   auto or manual? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/auto-or-manual-18409.html)

StealthAWD 05-09-2008 10:25 PM

auto or manual?
 
I have noticed that most Rubicons I am looking at have auto transmission. I am really looking for a manual transmission (I think that would be best). Wondering what others on here have for a transmission, and pros and cons of auto vs. manual (obvious stuff like sitting in traffic with a manual is not a concern for me). But I do want do some light off roading and trailing, so which is best for that?

Triple88a 05-09-2008 10:26 PM

this gets discussed every couple of weeks. do a search if you want more info but the end result that i'm getting from the discussions is, auto is better for offroading (especially rock crawling) because of the torque converter. Manual is better for the highway.

StealthAWD 05-09-2008 10:28 PM

oh..sorry, I will do a search.

AzTJ 05-09-2008 10:32 PM

Automatics rule the rocks... but if your doing anything else, and manual might suit you just fine.

Triple88a 05-09-2008 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthAWD (Post 227674)
oh..sorry, I will do a search.

No problem man, dont get me wrong, i'm just saying you can get more info much faster.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/tj-jeep...ual-17349.html

MNPHINZ 05-09-2008 10:57 PM

My Rubicon's a manual...love it.

soupy1957 05-10-2008 06:55 AM

<drives a 6-speed Manual, and has owned a few other "Manuals" as well....


It all boils down to:

A) How strong is your left leg
B) How strong is your right arm
C) How well do you do synchronized movements
D) How comfortable are you with low gear ratios
E) Do you like to start off from 2nd gear, most often


You might be a candidate for a manual if:

A) Your wife or girlfriend (or "boyfriend") thinks it's cool
B) Your kids or grandkids think it's cool
C) You like to move around a lot
D) You like better control in the snow and mud
E) You like telling your motor when YOU want to shift
F) You like better gas mileage
G) You get ticked off when the Automatic rev's to a higher
gear, half way up a steep hill
H) You like the feel of a shifter in your hands
I) (you fill in)________________________


-Soupy1957

nicolas-eric 05-10-2008 07:54 AM

my last two wranglers had a 5spd manual tranny.
my "new" wrangler has a 4spd auto tranny.

it doesnīt accellerate slower than the last jeeps and there is only one disadvantage. it needs 10-20% more fuel than the jeeps with manual tranny.
the advantage is that itīs more comfortable, i donīt have to use the clutch and i donīt have to shift anymore when there is more traffic or a traffic jam.
of the road itīs much better. the more difficult the terrain is the better it is with an auto tranny.

and the most important advantage:
i can use my right hand for everything else than shifting...especially my GF likes that... :D :punk:

jpdocdave 05-10-2008 08:26 AM

i much prefer manual. i love to hit the rocks. its harder to do, but if you're good i think you can do better on the rocks w/ manual. plus, i'm gonna have a remote throttle, don't tell anyone.

soupy1957 05-10-2008 08:44 AM

"10-20% more fuel than the jeeps with manual tranny."

That ALONE (given today's gas prices) is enough reason to avoid an Automatic!!

-Soupy1957

juspimpin 05-10-2008 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soupy1957 (Post 227737)
"10-20% more fuel than the jeeps with manual tranny."

That ALONE (given today's gas prices) is enough reason to avoid an Automatic!!

-Soupy1957

...and the increased cost of the automatic at purchase time...


if manual is an option in any vehicle, that is what I opt for...

Jerry Bransford 05-10-2008 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soupy1957 (Post 227737)
"10-20% more fuel than the jeeps with manual tranny."

That ALONE (given today's gas prices) is enough reason to avoid an Automatic!!

-Soupy1957

That hasn't been true in many years.

Autos did not used to have locking torque converters so they did get poorer mileage because the torque converter wasn't locked up so it slipped. But they have had lock-up torque converters for many years now so they get the exact same mpg as a manual transmission does, if their final drive ratios are the same. There is no slippage with an automatic on the road so there's no longer anything about an automatic to give it poorer fuel economy.

Bottom line, autos get exactly the same fuel economy as a manual does, no less. And in reality, they usually get better fuel economy because they shift at optimal RPMs, something not all manual drivers do.

And i reality, when comparing the same vehicle/engine/ratio vehicle, EPA fuel economy is now generally 1-2 mpg better for automatics than their manual transmission counterparts.

Jerry Bransford 05-10-2008 10:34 AM

As a fairly "hard core" offroader, at least by some standards, I recently converted my '97 TJ from a 5-speed to an automatic. It's now pretty much mostly a trail Jeep that does more rock crawling than anything.

On gentle to moderate trails, manuals are fine but once you start doing many 5+ rated trails, an automatic gives much better control and a better crawl ratio. I was shocked how much more control I had over really tough obstacles with the automatic than my previous 5-speed.

With the guys I enjoy rock crawling with, I was one of the last remaining manual transmission drivers. I was constantly amazed at how smoothly the guys with automatics navigated the rocks like in Johnson Valley, while us guys with manuals had a much tougher time. Most vehicles out in areas like that have been automatics for years now.

Having had both styles of transmissions in my TJ, I'll just say I don't miss my manual transmission. I did the swap with 174,000 miles on the manual transmission and I'll just say that the benefits I picked up with the automatic were similar in how dramatic they were to when I installed front and rear lockers years ago.

Benefits to the automatic include 2-3X greater low-end torque through torque multiplication that takes place inside the torque converter, as well as an infinitely low first gear ratio again as a result of the torque converter. That equates to an infinitely high crawl ratio, a very good thing.

Some of you manual enthusiasts will just claim I didn't have the skills to drive a manual well on tough trails. Well, at age 60, I have been driving manuals for about 44 years now, and with 174,000 miles on my TJ's 5-speed. I also managed to get over 167,000 miles out of my original clutch with plenty of rock crawling on it so that seems to say I knew how to drive it. Actually, I was surprised when I pulled the OE clutch disk out, it still had a lot of life left on it. I only swapped it in preparation for a trip through Sledgehammer in Johnson Valley where I didn't want to take a chance with an old clutch going out on me.

Easy trails, transmission type doesn't matter. But the harder the trail, the more an automatic transmission shines. At least in my personal opinion. :punk:

Dare2BSquare 05-10-2008 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 227752)
I also managed to get over 167,000 miles out of my original clutch with plenty of rock crawling on it so that seems to say I knew how to drive it.

There is the rub with a lot of people. Replacing clutches because you ride it too much can much more than offset the original cost of an automatic.

mrbigjeep 05-10-2008 10:50 AM

i run a manual and like it. it has been fine on and off road. i have the 6spd.

nicolas-eric 05-10-2008 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soupy1957 (Post 227737)
"10-20% more fuel than the jeeps with manual tranny."

That ALONE (given today's gas prices) is enough reason to avoid an Automatic!!

-Soupy1957

sorry i forgot to say that i as talking about the fuel consumption at low speed in the city. i drive 90& in the city.
at highway speeds with locked converter the fuel consumption is a bit better than with my old manual tranny.

Triple88a 05-10-2008 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 227749)
Autos did not used to have locking torque converters so they did get poorer mileage because the torque converter wasn't locked up so it slipped. But they have had lock-up torque converters for many years now so they get the exact same mpg as a manual transmission does, if their final drive ratios are the same. There is no slippage with an automatic on the road so there's no longer anything about an automatic to give it poorer fuel economy..

In stop and go, torque converter doesnt lock up (or at least on the auto vehicles i've been in) lol You have to be cruising so it locks up. While accelerating it slips.

Jerry Bransford 05-10-2008 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple88a (Post 227778)
In stop and go, torque converter doesnt lock up (or at least on the auto vehicles i've been in) lol You have to be cruising so it locks up. While accelerating it slips.

Thank you Captain Obvious. ;)

Triple88a 05-10-2008 01:16 PM

right

nicolas-eric 05-10-2008 01:36 PM

with deactivated OD switch it locks up at about 40 mph. with activated OD switch it locks up at about 35 mph. after it locked up i can accellerate moderate without slipping.

jpdocdave 05-10-2008 06:45 PM

i've always loved my manuals. what does everyone say about strength, and cost of repairs on an auto. manual trans is strong, and more easily repaired.

bpowa 05-10-2008 10:00 PM

i can stick my left leg ot the door when the door is off.. like a sitting streach.

wheelin352 05-10-2008 10:26 PM

also something i havent seen mentioned is the fact of deep mud and water if your planning on doing any mud/water that could get over your trans with an auto you woll be looking at very exspensive repairs with a manual if you drain the fluid out shortly after youll be fine but if you not doing deep water/mud id pick the auto over manual anyday

mrbigjeep 05-10-2008 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpowa (Post 227938)
i can stick my left leg ot the door when the door is off.. like a sitting streach.

so i assume you have an auto?

manual drivers can do this too when cruising...i know i do.

Rawkon 05-10-2008 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelin352 (Post 227945)
also something i havent seen mentioned is the fact of deep mud and water if your planning on doing any mud/water that could get over your trans with an auto you woll be looking at very exspensive repairs with a manual if you drain the fluid out shortly after youll be fine but if you not doing deep water/mud id pick the auto over manual anyday


been there done that no water has gotten into anything.
My MPG with my 3 speed auto averages 17 in the highway and 15 in the city

Triple88a 05-10-2008 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbigjeep (Post 227946)
so i assume you have an auto?

manual drivers can do this too when cruising...i know i do.

2x.:punk:

bpowa 05-10-2008 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbigjeep (Post 227946)
so i assume you have an auto?

manual drivers can do this too when cruising...i know i do.


from red to green at a stop..:D:p

speed bumps at the mall:rofl:

nicolas-eric 05-11-2008 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelin352 (Post 227945)
also something i havent seen mentioned is the fact of deep mud and water if your planning on doing any mud/water that could get over your trans with an auto you woll be looking at very exspensive repairs with a manual if you drain the fluid out shortly after youll be fine but if you not doing deep water/mud id pick the auto over manual anyday

the 4spd auto tranny is very water resistant and itīs breather hose is very high at the firewall.
only the old 3pd auto tranny hd problems with water.

:wavey:

tarheel 05-11-2008 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpowa (Post 227963)
from red to green at a stop..:D:p

speed bumps at the mall:rofl:

Those are speed ISLANDS now and they require lots of flex:flipoff:

Ripcord 05-11-2008 08:47 AM

Im going to start a mall speed island club!!!!


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