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-   -   Please Help Me w/ Diagnosing DW - Videos - Is My Track Bar Normal? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/please-help-me-w-diagnosing-dw-videos-is-my-track-bar-normal-189085.html)

TalkIsJeep 09-24-2012 05:53 PM

Please Help Me w/ Diagnosing DW - Videos - Is My Track Bar Normal?
 
Hey guys.

So I just finished installing my lift this weekend, Zone's 1.25" BL + 3" SL + 1" MML Combo. Everything went relatively smoothly, and as far as I know I torqued everything down to either factory specs, or the specs that Zone's instructions gave me for their hardware.

Prior to lifting I had very little experience with wobble. A handful of times in the passed 2 years I would get front end wobble at around 65-70MPH when I hit a bump, and it would solve itself when I'd slow down to around 50MPH. I know this wasn't DW.

Today was the first day I took my '05 LJ on the highway since the lift was installed. I drove from work and back, and I got DW 3 times. Every time I had to pull over. It was an extremely violent shaking in the front end, so much so that my wheels actually chirped a few times. Every time, it would go away when I slowed to almost a stop.

I did a little research on the subject and found out that often times the track bar is at the forefront of the problem, so I went out with my camera in hand to see what I could find out.

I know y'all are probably going to castrate me for the way I'm pushing/pulling on the sway bar, but it's the only thing I could think of doing (Maybe you will. Maybe not. I don't know, I just assume that it's not great to do to it?). Here are videos shot from the ground up on both the passenger and driver's side of the sway bar. I grabbed it at the bend and moved it in a front to back motion.

Driver's Side:

[youtube]BbSiriP9mDA[/youtube]

Passenger's Side:

[youtube]OFRwkTewtlM[/youtube]

The driver's side wasn't touched throughout the installation, but the passenger's side is where I had to drill another hole in the stock track bar mount and relocate the track bar with the provided hardware.

So I'm not sure if that type of movement is normal, or if it should be stiff, or even if this would be causing my DW.

Also, I need to do an alignment, which I'm going to attempt tomorrow after work. The wheels are very slightly misaligned..I've read from some that this can cause DW and from others that it won't, but I'm going to give it a shot either way.

Any input or help or advice you guys have would be an awesome help. I'm pretty new to working on Jeeps, this was my first "big" project, so I'm kind of in over my head at this point but I'm not going to go to a garage for this, as I feel like they will just tear my wallet up.

Thanks in advance guys!

-Lorenzo

umake 09-24-2012 06:12 PM

Seems like you have pretty excessive play in the passengers side. My track bar doesn't budget at the bushings when shook like that. I dunno if that's the complete source of the problem but that seems like a good place to start.

ohsixlj 09-24-2012 06:38 PM

I had wobble in mine with much less play than that. I tightened it s tight as I could get it with a ratchet not an impact lol and the wobble went away.

TalkIsJeep 09-24-2012 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umake
Seems like you have pretty excessive play in the passengers side. My track bar doesn't budget at the bushings when shook like that. I dunno if that's the complete source of the problem but that seems like a good place to start.

Thanks!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohsixlj
I had wobble in mine with much less play than that. I tightened it s tight as I could get it with a ratchet not an impact lol and the wobble went away.

Ahhhh awesome!! I'm going to run out there right now and crank it down, thank you!

TalkIsJeep 09-24-2012 07:29 PM

That was a no go. Ran outside, checked it and I couldn't get it any tighter by hand. Dropped the passenger's side down and inspected it..the bolt is the perfect size for the mount but the sleeve in the bushing on the track bar itself is pretty large. So no matter how much I tighten the bolt, it'll still jump around in there.

Another thing I noticed is in order to line up the track bar to the mount, I had to have my buddy push the jeep from passenger side to driver side while I kept on pushing the bolt through. I drilled the hole exactly as the directions instructed..3/4" directly over from the original.

The fact that there's a fair amount of play between the bushing sleeve and bolt coupled with the fact that there's pressure on the bolt/mount from the driver's side makes me think that every time the driver's side dips down (by hitting a bump on one side, swerving, whatever) that the weight is temporarily taken off the bolt/mount and the track bar momentarily has free play. As I understand, DW starts with a little thing and snowballs into the nastiness I've been experiencing. Does any of that sound credible to anyone? If so, what's a good temporary fix...am I able to purchase a new track bar bushing with a tighter sleeve?

Patrick H 09-24-2012 07:37 PM

You've GOT to weld a plate over the front of the TB bracket (axle end) and drill the hole through it.

Patrick H 09-24-2012 07:39 PM

Reinforcing Front Track Bar Axle Bracket

TalkIsJeep 09-24-2012 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick H
You've GOT to weld a plate over the front of the TB bracket (axle end) and drill the hole through it.

What would that do? The bolt is actually a perfect fit for the holes drilled into the tb bracket..no play in there..all the play seems to be within the bushing sleeve itself

ETA - thanks for the link, just skimmed it quickly..I had no idea the mount could snap so easily, but prior to any breakage, would that have anything to do with DW?

Patrick H 09-24-2012 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalkIsJeep (Post 2825636)
What would that do? The bolt is actually a perfect fit for the holes drilled into the tb bracket..no play in there..all the play seems to be within the bushing sleeve itself

See how close the new hole is to the bottom edge of the bracket? They will crack and/ or break there.

4x4jeeptj 09-24-2012 07:46 PM

I just put my lift on and had DW like crazy. I couldn't go faster than 30 and it would go into shaking violently. My buddy went to align it and it was 3 inches toed out of alignment. We tried to align it but my tie rod (or track bar) wouldn't budge. I took it to Firestone today and had them do it. They said they couldn't get it to budge, they heated it with a torch and still no luck, then pb blasted it and it finally budged. Fix my DW problem but I still get a little shake at high speeds when turning or hitting a bump. So I'm gonna put on a new steering stabilizer to replace my factory one to fix that.

Patrick H 09-24-2012 07:47 PM

Quote:

ETA - thanks for the link, just skimmed it quickly..I had no idea the mount could snap so easily, but prior to any breakage, would that have anything to do with DW?
Not initially, if the inner sleeve in the TB bushing is clamped tight in the bracket.

TalkIsJeep 09-24-2012 08:29 PM

Thanks for all of the responses guys! I ordered up a new bushing and I'm going up try an alignment tomorrow..I'll see how that pans out!

Joshpeb2 09-24-2012 09:08 PM

I'm assuming that with the lift you also went to larger tires? If so, you could also have a balance issue with a tire. I had lost a weight on one of my wheels (when still stock) and it felt like the front end was tearing itself apart.

P.S. post some pics of your ride now that it's lifted!

TalkIsJeep 09-24-2012 09:18 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshpeb2
I'm assuming that with the lift you also went to larger tires? If so, you could also have a balance issue with a tire. I had lost a weight on one of my wheels (when still stock) and it felt like the front end was tearing itself apart.

P.S. post some pics of your ride now that it's lifted!

No bigger tires yet :-( not until my wheels come out in October.

Nothing special just yet!

Attachment 163472



Attachment 163473

TalkIsJeep 10-01-2012 05:59 PM

Meant to update this and I forgot; as far as I can tell, the DW was caused by the alignment issue after the lift. They were off by a VERY slight amount an apparently that's all it takes. Haven't had DW since I corrected it. The front end still does feel slightly loose when hitting a bump at highway speeds, but nothing that ever progresses into serious wobble, I mostly just feel it in my feet a little.. pretty sure that has to do with the track bar, which I'm working on


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