Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   Off-Topic (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f6/)
-   -   Please Consider Signing. (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f6/please-consider-signing-19013.html)

Dare2BSquare 06-04-2008 10:07 AM

Please Consider Signing.
 
The petition below is from Newt Gingrich. It's his "Drill Here, Drill Now, Pay Less" petition to member of Congress. I would ask that you consider signing it. It seems our Govt is determined to do whatever doesn't make sense, or whatever keeps America weak.

It's amazing to me since the "gas shortage" of the 70s.how in the last 35 yrs, Congress has passed law after law to make us more foreign-oil dependant, and less self-sufficient---it's illegal to drill off either coast, its illegal to drill in Alaska, its illegal to drill on the transcontinental shelf, it's illegal to drill in most of the Rockies, no refineries built in 35 yrs, no development of nuclear energy since the 70s.and on and onand we sit and watch.

Obviously enough members of Congress do not think enough voters care enough or know enough to vote otherwise, or demand a correction.

We'd better speak up now, or forever keep silent. Take a look at this site, and consider signing it.

http://www.americansolutions.com/

skeeter 06-04-2008 10:15 AM

Done.
It really amazes me that they can ban development of our own resources and then turn around and hold hearings where they try to blame everyone but themselves for the high fuel prices.
Democrats are truly insane.

Dare2BSquare 06-04-2008 10:22 AM

I hate those pass this on to everyone, or you will suffer dire consequences, e-mails. But if you decide to sign this, please pass it on. We need to send a message that if something doesn't change, there will be repercussions. I stated in my message, attached to the petition that it is my intention to vote EVERY incumbent state or national politician out of office until they receive the message that we are serious about our representatives representing OUR interests, instead of the special interests.

whitebuffalo 06-04-2008 11:04 AM

im not against drilling in alaska, but i dont beleive its going to lower prices at the pump. alaska is completely energy independent, yet they're paying just as much (more actually) for fuel as the conus. also, if drilling in the other areas was legalized today, itd be 5-10 years before that oil hit the market......

{flame suit on}

[TheYJGuy] 06-04-2008 11:35 AM

You've got my John Handcock, and I'm posting it on my own forum.

skeeter 06-04-2008 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitebuffalo (Post 234687)
im not against drilling in alaska, but i dont beleive its going to lower prices at the pump. alaska is completely energy independent, yet they're paying just as much (more actually) for fuel as the conus.

Alaska is paying what everyone else is paying because oil is traded on the open market, The state of Alaska doesn't have it's own refinery and distribution system.

Quote:

also, if drilling in the other areas was legalized today, itd be 5-10 years before that oil hit the market......
That's what good ole slick Willie said when he vetoed drilling up there back around 95... gee, if the moron hadn't done that we'd be enjoying it now, when we need it.
Should we keep on saying no just because it'll take awhile to do it? or should get started before it's too late?
Besides, I'd be willing to bet that if we announced that we were going to significantly expand our drilling and refinery capacity and approve coal to oil plants the OPEC'ers would suddenly increase production to try and make it less cost effective for us.
We're sitting on just about as much energy reserves as they are, we're just too scared of the enviro weenies to exploit it.

Dare2BSquare 06-04-2008 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitebuffalo (Post 234687)
if drilling in the other areas was legalized today, itd be 5-10 years before that oil hit the market......

Quote:

It's amazing to me since the "gas shortage" of the 70s.how in the last 35 yrs, Congress has passed law after law to make us more foreign-oil dependant, and less self-sufficient---
I'd say we are about 25-30 years behind.

The "let's just hold on, and it will go away" policy didn't work then, and it won't work now!!!

debruins 06-04-2008 05:10 PM

I am completely 100% against drilling in Alaska, and i have sent letters to congress and called my rep asking them not to drill there

we need to stop whining about prices and suck it up(the rest of the world pays 4X more btw). Drilling would only prolong the problem, there is not a never ending supply of oil, it will run out! Eventually the prices will rise again! we need to look at other ways to make energy and more efficient ways to use it.

Think about if everyone put in that hydrogen fuel thing in their car's, it would decrease our oil needs by millions or even billions of barrels, about what they say Alaska will give us. Why not use the investment capital in something that will be a long term solution to our oil consumption problem and not just a quick fix for the next 20 years (or maybe even less as we use more and more oil per capita and there are more and more people in the US)

Never mind it is one of the last places on earth to be exploited by humans, all it takes is two people walking one behind the other to kill the plants on the tundra for thousands of years, and we are proposing making roads in and having thousands of people live there?

Basically people are only worrying about themselves and looking at the short term, why not care about the environment, don't destroy alaska, let it be the last frontier!, and why not look at alternate ways of getting out energy, be smart about it.


Yes there will be change, and but it doesn't have to be extreme for our oil needs to go down dramatically, for example if everyone did do the hydrogen water thing, or if people rode their bikes when they could, or if people walked more, or carpooled more, there are so many easy things that we refuse to do. Instead we look to an easy way out. With the easy way out there is no progress, no change, only the status quo, which is rising prices, whether it be now or later, it will happen b/c oil is not renewable!


anyway i dont understand how people that are all for saving national parks and forests and keeping them open to wheeling and love being in the outdoors and getting away "from it all" would want to destroy the last frontier and a national forest.


(skeeter i made sure to split it into paragraphs so you can debate me easier haha, cause i knooowwwww its coming haha!!)

Dare2BSquare 06-04-2008 05:21 PM

I'm impressed Debruins. You make a good arguement and spelled everything where it could be read. Maybe all that edumacation you have been sleeping through, actually soaked in. :D

4point 06-04-2008 05:23 PM

Derrik, get off my planet!!!!

debruins 06-04-2008 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare2BSquare (Post 234787)
I'm impressed Debruins. You make a good arguement and spelled everything where it could be read. Maybe all that edumacation you have been sleeping through, actually soaked in. :D

it was the no child left behind act...............:banghead:

4point 06-04-2008 05:31 PM

I just signed it, TWICE! Once for me and once for debruin. :D

debruins 06-04-2008 05:37 PM

do they even look at those things since ppl can do that and like i can sign it and im not 18 yet?

Levinoss 06-04-2008 05:41 PM

Debruins I respect that you don't want to ruin Alaska but you have no idea the hoops these kinds of construction operations and plants have to go through to not ruin the environment these days. Alaska won't be turned white to black and be ruined for thousands of years. The concrete plant I just worked on they had to give like 65% of the land that was bought (TONS) to be turned into a natural preserve to keep the surrounding mountains clean and unmolested. Hell we couldn't open a can of spray paint on the job without having it tagged and logged in the main office. The job was hidden way back in the mountains and almost no one could tell there was a concrete plant being built. Anyone who was to step out of the plant area and onto the preserve and you would be arrested and banned from the job (no joke).

I agree that we need to find another source other then oil but Alaska will help tide us over and ease our dependence on foreign-oil until the time comes for us to make the switch.

~Lev

debruins 06-04-2008 05:52 PM

^^ who cares if no one can see it? its about the environment not us!!!!!!

so u propose we destroy 35% of Alaska??? Does that seem ok to you??

ALLL of that land was unused before plant was built and now a portion is preserved, how is that good for the environment????
And in the case of ANWR AALLL of the land is already preserved!!! So what good is coming from it, there is no added preserve land.

We don't need to ease the pain, the market wont change until we feel the full force of higher prices, there will be no change until prices rise, its how the market works, if gas is cheap, people are going to use it and not "waste" money finding alternative ways

Levinoss 06-04-2008 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debruins (Post 234802)
^^ who cares if no one can see it? its about the environment not us!!!!!!

so u propose we destroy 35% of Alaska??? Does that seem ok to you??

ALLL of that land was unused before plant was built and now a portion is preserved, how is that good for the environment????
And in the case of ANWR AALLL of the land is already preserved!!! So what good is coming from it, there is no added preserve land.

We don't need to ease the pain, the market wont change until we feel the full force of higher prices, there will be no change until prices rise, its how the market works, if gas is cheap, people are going to use it and not "waste" money finding alternative ways

heh, you'll understand one day Debruins but it won't be today it seems.


~Lev

1BLKJP 06-04-2008 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debruins (Post 234802)
^^ who cares if no one can see it? its about the environment not us!!!!!!

so u propose we destroy 35% of Alaska??? Does that seem ok to you??

ALLL of that land was unused before plant was built and now a portion is preserved, how is that good for the environment????
And in the case of ANWR AALLL of the land is already preserved!!! So what good is coming from it, there is no added preserve land.

We don't need to ease the pain, the market wont change until we feel the full force of higher prices, there will be no change until prices rise, its how the market works, if gas is cheap, people are going to use it and not "waste" money finding alternative ways

Is this the kind of economics they teach in Mass? Must be the Kennedy theories. :D

And what parts of the environment do you really think would be unalterably harmed by drilling someplace that 99.9% of the human population have never seen nor will ever see?

SIGNED

4point 06-04-2008 07:36 PM

That is one brain washed little kid there.

debruins 06-04-2008 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1BLKJP (Post 234836)
And what parts of the environment do you really think would be unalterably harmed by drilling someplace that 99.9% of the human population have never seen nor will ever see?

oh so if people dont see it its not there? i don't get what you're saying? that it can only be considered nature if people can see it? or that it can only be harmed if everyone in the world has seen it??

Levinoss 06-04-2008 08:24 PM

Bruins can you point out where on the map of Alaska where they plan to drill?

~Lev

debruins 06-04-2008 08:28 PM

yup top right, twice the size of Maine, middle of nowhere where up till now it has been pristine wilderness and a wildlife preserve

JCS05Rubi 06-04-2008 08:30 PM

Signed twice. One for me, and my GF signed too.

rketr 06-04-2008 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debruins (Post 234802)
^^ who cares if no one can see it? its about the environment not us!!!!!!

so u propose we destroy 35% of Alaska??? Does that seem ok to you??

ALLL of that land was unused before plant was built and now a portion is preserved, how is that good for the environment????
And in the case of ANWR AALLL of the land is already preserved!!! So what good is coming from it, there is no added preserve land.

We don't need to ease the pain, the market wont change until we feel the full force of higher prices, there will be no change until prices rise, its how the market works, if gas is cheap, people are going to use it and not "waste" money finding alternative ways

Sorry dude, once you leave mommy's house and get on your own you'll feel the pain a little more.

And maybe I missed it, but where did the 35% number come from? Do you realize how big Alaska actually is? 35% is a monstrous amount that is obviously extremely overinflated.

Not going to bother arguing the point. The gov't should get off their tree hugging laurels and allow additional wells to be tapped. If anything I'd rather be pushing my hard earned coin into American companies rather than to other countries.

debruins 06-04-2008 08:40 PM

levinoss said it was ok to build b/c they gave 65% to preserve land, in the end if everyone keeps doing that then we would only be left with 35% of the wilderness.

and yes i would be feeling the pain, but that means id be even more willing to try new things, and more willing to walk to work or ride my bike to work, or carpool with co-workers or turn the heat down and wear a sweater, or not buy bottled water and use tons of plastic etc. etc. Not more willing to destroy the environment

Doesn't it defeat the whole purpose of making preserves if people are going to be allowed to drill there?? Whats next use the power from the geisers at yellowstone for cheap power for thousands??
Yeah thats it, lets destroy yellowstone and use the geisers energy to power most of the central US (it would). That would make power really cheap!!

No, everyone would be against that, but when we start talking about far away places people have never been to its ok??

JCS05Rubi 06-04-2008 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debruins (Post 234781)
I am completely 100% against drilling in Alaska, and i have sent letters to congress and called my rep asking them not to drill there

we need to stop whining about prices and suck it up(the rest of the world pays 4X more btw). Drilling would only prolong the problem, there is not a never ending supply of oil, it will run out! Eventually the prices will rise again! we need to look at other ways to make energy and more efficient ways to use it.

Think about if everyone put in that hydrogen fuel thing in their car's, it would decrease our oil needs by millions or even billions of barrels, about what they say Alaska will give us. Why not use the investment capital in something that will be a long term solution to our oil consumption problem and not just a quick fix for the next 20 years (or maybe even less as we use more and more oil per capita and there are more and more people in the US)

Never mind it is one of the last places on earth to be exploited by humans, all it takes is two people walking one behind the other to kill the plants on the tundra for thousands of years, and we are proposing making roads in and having thousands of people live there?

Basically people are only worrying about themselves and looking at the short term, why not care about the environment, don't destroy alaska, let it be the last frontier!, and why not look at alternate ways of getting out energy, be smart about it.


Yes there will be change, and but it doesn't have to be extreme for our oil needs to go down dramatically, for example if everyone did do the hydrogen water thing, or if people rode their bikes when they could, or if people walked more, or carpooled more, there are so many easy things that we refuse to do. Instead we look to an easy way out. With the easy way out there is no progress, no change, only the status quo, which is rising prices, whether it be now or later, it will happen b/c oil is not renewable!


anyway i dont understand how people that are all for saving national parks and forests and keeping them open to wheeling and love being in the outdoors and getting away "from it all" would want to destroy the last frontier and a national forest.


(skeeter i made sure to split it into paragraphs so you can debate me easier haha, cause i knooowwwww its coming haha!!)

A. The US burns an EXTREMELY large portion of the worlds oil. That is why we pay so much less, for the most part. Of course, some countries have their own source of energy, but its simple supply and demand. We demand a lot.

B. It has been proven that oil does regenerate itself. Hell, our own oil reserves did that. They are almost full. Years ago people were screaming how low we were..

C. I think EVERYONE agree we need to invest into alternative fuels, no one is disputing that. Its your lovely Democrats that you like so much, that are inhibiting that process. Drilling our own oil will simply help lessen the cost until we can figure something else out. And yes, drilling on our own soil will almost certainly scare OPEC into lowering our prices. They want us to buy up all the foreign oil, not use our own.

I am not even going to start on your environmentalist wacko theory. We are all Jeepers, we all love nature and to explore it. Drilling on a small area of alaska is NOT going to DESTROY the whole state, or even a small portion of it. Plenty of other countries do it, and its working pretty darn well for them. If we were talking about, say the raw materials for Lithium Ion batteries, I would agree, but alas, we are not. We are talking about oil. I drill that on my farm.. trust and believe there are still plenty of trees and birds and deer that run through my farm in WV.

I suppose you think the ice caps are all melting, and the temperature is raising too, huh debruins?

Sounds like you need to stop watching the news, and taking peoples word for truth, and do your own research bud...

debruins 06-04-2008 08:53 PM

btw u realize that most analysts say that opening Anwr to drilling would only drop the price of oil by a dollar a barrel, thats less than 1%

also do u really think the companies that will be allowed to drill in ANWR will sell their oil for way less than the oil coming from mexico, canada and central america (where our oil comes from not the middle east, only 15% of our oil comes from outside the western hemisphere)

no, they will sell it for as much as they can,(thats how capitalism works!) so the prices will not drop!!

debruins 06-04-2008 08:56 PM

btw it's a proven fact that the icecaps are melting and the average temp is rising u cant dispute that, what u can dispute is that it is not humans fault but rather a natural cycle of the earth,

and oil does not regenerate as fast as we are using it up, they key word you used was we THOUGHT that the reserves were running out, well we were wrong, but now we have better technology and they are running out, we dont even need technology to tell you that, you can look at the productivity of the wells, they are dipping, we have more reserves we know about and therefore are drilling more oil, but each old reserve is producing less than when it was at its peak

tiny terror 06-04-2008 09:11 PM

While I applaud your passion, DB, and the fact that you've become coherent in this thread, I must wonder why you drive a gas sucking oil using jeep if you feel this strongly about drilling for oil in Alaska.

debruins 06-04-2008 09:31 PM

I only drive it when I need to, I walk to school I get rides when I'm going around town to my friends houses, I bike to my friends houses, I don't drive everywhere.

Also I am willing to pay for the gas I use, i know that if I want to pay less for gas i can get a tiny little car, and that would be the solution, not ruining an ecosystem. I have my jeep because I love the outdoors and love to be in the woods and the environment. I have no problem driving my jeep twice a week and using a tank of gas every month, I use less gas than my aunt who has a hybrid! But as soon as I have enough money I am going to buy a tiny little car as my second car, but that wont be til after college b/c in college I wont use a car at all. In the next five years I will use the same amount of gas most Americans use in 5 months.

ccain 06-04-2008 09:38 PM

Did you just write a paper for school pr something? You have a pretty wide knowledge base, what with throwing around all those percentages and all, for an undergraduate. :flipoff:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:31 PM.