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-   -   No doors in PA? Legal or not? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f97/no-doors-in-pa-legal-or-not-191328.html)

donrambo 10-04-2012 01:15 PM

No doors in PA? Legal or not?
 
I recently read a thread on this forum (not in the PA section) where a guy got a ticket by a PA state cop for having his doors off. He fought the ticket and the judge held up the ticket. I don't believe he took it any farther than that. If I find the link to that thread I'll post it here.

I want to ride with my doors off, and do. But I also don't want to get a ticket.

I have a friend that is a cop in cranberry twp. He basically said that's BS. He doesn't interpret the law that way. he claims that it's his opinion that it says it IS legal to ride with the doors off.

So ok, now we have two cops that disagree....

So, just now there was a Allegheny County Sheriff outside of my work place. I went out there and asked him the same question and he said the state cop was right. it is illegal. So I told him what my buddy said (the other cop) and he said well, It's up to the cop to interpret the law. He said he wouldn't give anyone a ticket for running with the doors off because he has plenty of other "real" problems to keep him busy through out the day. He also gave me an ear full about how it's unsafe to ride with the doors off and it's his opinion that it's stupid to take them off....(I could elaborate on how I feel about that but I'd be preaching to the choir here).

So....can anyone else elaborate on their experiences with this issue in PA? Maybe some other law enforcement officers that might post here?

I really want to ride with the doors off!!! But i also don't want to get a ticket!

Medic005 10-04-2012 03:02 PM

I asked one of my cop friends and he stated it wasn't illegal to have the doors off. He did state that if there was no mirror, he would pull them over.

I've seen plenty of Jeeps running without doors over the summer in the Pittsburgh area.

Zed 10-04-2012 09:06 PM

Plenty in Central PA with the doors off. Just make sure you have mirrors. In terms of safety it's no more dangerous than being on a motorcycle. Last I checked, they don't have doors either :-)

Lil Red JK 10-04-2012 10:03 PM

IMO, It's a lot safer than riding on a motorcycle! Motorcycle's don't have doors, so how can it be illegal for a Jeep to not have doors? We ride when the weather permits to ride w/o doors. Also I was corrected in another area on here about not having side view mirrors. In PA, you legally do not have to have side view mirrors. There is a section in the state laws that say as long as there is a rear view mirror, it's ok. (I forget what thread it's in I will try to find it) Although we always have a driver's side view mirror put in place when we take the doors off.

Lil Red JK 10-04-2012 10:26 PM

Pennsylvania:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacode.com
175.68. Mirrors.

(a) Condition of mirrors. Mirrors shall be in safe operating condition as described in 175.80 (relating to inspection procedure).

(b) Rearview mirrors. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with at least one rearview mirror or similar device which provides the driver an unobstructed view of the highway to the rear of the vehicle for a distance of not less than 200 feet. A mirror may not be cracked, broken or discolored.

(c) Obstructions. On a vehicle specified under this subchapter, a rearview mirror shall be free from obstructions as described in 175.80.

(1) A vehicle specified under this subchapter having a sign, load or material which obstructs, obscures or impairs the driver’s clear view of the highway or an intersecting highway shall have two outside rearview mirrors, one on the driver’s side and one on the passenger’s side, each with a minimum reflective surface of 19.5 square inches.

(2) Rear window louvers are permitted only if the vehicle has at least two outside rearview mirrors, one on the driver’s side and one on the passenger’s side, each with minimum reflective surfaces of 19.5 square inches.

(3) Rearview mirrors, each with a minimum reflective surface of 19.5 square inches, shall be installed on both sides of a vehicle for which a certificate of exemption for a sun screening device or other material has been issued. A vehicle for which a certificate of exemption has been issued for medical reasons may be equipped with only a left outside rearview mirror, unless the vehicle was originally equipped with an outside rearview mirror on both sides of the vehicle.

(4) No object or material may be hung from the rearview mirror and no object or material may be hung, placed or attached in a position so as to materially obstruct, obscure or impair the driver’s vision through the windshield or constitute a safety hazard.

(5) This subsection also applies to glass etchings, except those used for vehicle identification.

(d) Motor homes. A motor home shall be free from obstructions as described in this subchapter.

(1) A vehicle manufactured as or permanently converted into a motor home with a GVW of 11,000 pounds or less may have windows—approved glass only—transparent screens and roll-up shades or curtains installed if the shades and curtains are securely fastened in the completely opened position to avoid covering a portion of window while the vehicle is being operated on the highway. Venetian blinds may not cover a window while the vehicle is operated on the highway.

(2) If a window is covered for installation of a wardrobe, cupboard or other convenience, it shall be factory installed or otherwise permanently installed—optional equipment or facsimile only. Two outside mirrors shall be installed to afford the operator a clear view 200 feet to the rear of the vehicle.

Authority

The provisions of this 175.68 amended under the Vehicle Code, 75 Pa.C.S. 4103, 4521, 4524 and 6103.

Source

The provisions of this 175.68 adopted October 29, 1982, effective February 1, 1983, 12 Pa.B. 3862; corrected November 12, 1982, effective February 1, 1983, 12 Pa.B. 3947; readopted December 2, 1988, effective December 3, 1988, 18 Pa.B. 5362; amended September 27, 1996, effective September 28, 1996, 26 Pa.B. 4640. Immediately preceding text appears at serial pages (132870) to (132871).

Cross References

This section cited in 67 Pa. Code 175.80 (relating to inspection procedure).

donrambo 10-05-2012 07:12 AM

here is the link to the guys big day in court thread...

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/big-...rt-187976.html

RemoJK 10-05-2012 10:29 AM

Just have a mirror on your driver side and you'll be fine

Teague242 10-08-2012 04:22 PM

Where I live you have to have mirrors... Some cops say on each side, some say just on the drivers side. The majority of jeeps I see with no doors have no mirrors either.

However in a town about a mile away I did have a cop turn on his lights when I was riding with no doors or top.... Luckily I was about 100 feet from the entrance to a trail I was going to. And i always utilize mirrors.

So it's a crap shoot basically. If you get pulled over then just be like "sorry officer I didn't know". Works for me half the time. But use 2 mirrors just to be safe.

GatorDeve86 10-08-2012 11:09 PM

it's cops discretion.. you dont need side mirrors as long as you have a rearview mirror though..
out of the hundreds of cops i have passed without doors i have been pulled over once by a prick cop with a hard on for doorless jeeps

zx6r 12-19-2012 03:36 PM

Im in central.PA and i asked a cop and he said no doors is illegal. But he said my tube doors are fine

jerlew77 12-24-2012 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx6r (Post 3122722)
Im in central.PA and i asked a cop and he said no doors is illegal. But he said my tube doors are fine

Thats what i was told when i got pulled over two years ago in central PA with no doors

Zed 12-24-2012 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerlew77

Thats what i was told when i got pulled over two years ago in central PA with no doors

I wonder how they feel about those doorless motorcycles ... snort

xcoaste 12-30-2012 09:42 PM

I have never had an issue in central or eastern PA. I have always installed mirror movers to accommodate no doors. The Jeep is made to have the doors removed via the factory, IE standard equipment, so to me that is the catch all.

aspohr89 01-04-2013 02:54 PM

It is technically illegal but the chances a cop will pull you over for it are slim. most don' care, own a jeep or comment on how much they like it. BUT you do run a risk of a ticket. I drive doorless as much as possible and get gas where a lot of cops are parked and they always comment on how much they like my jeep.

lewisz7hunter 01-24-2013 07:55 AM

Can anyone tell me from their run in's with the law, or just general knowledge, if the tube style doors satisfy "door requirements"?

baychar 01-24-2013 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donrambo (Post 2861265)
I recently read a thread on this forum (not in the PA section) where a guy got a ticket by a PA state cop for having his doors off. He fought the ticket and the judge held up the ticket. I don't believe he took it any farther than that. If I find the link to that thread I'll post it here.

I want to ride with my doors off, and do. But I also don't want to get a ticket.

I have a friend that is a cop in cranberry twp. He basically said that's BS. He doesn't interpret the law that way. he claims that it's his opinion that it says it IS legal to ride with the doors off.

So ok, now we have two cops that disagree....

So, just now there was a Allegheny County Sheriff outside of my work place. I went out there and asked him the same question and he said the state cop was right. it is illegal. So I told him what my buddy said (the other cop) and he said well, It's up to the cop to interpret the law. He said he wouldn't give anyone a ticket for running with the doors off because he has plenty of other "real" problems to keep him busy through out the day. He also gave me an ear full about how it's unsafe to ride with the doors off and it's his opinion that it's stupid to take them off....(I could elaborate on how I feel about that but I'd be preaching to the choir here).

So....can anyone else elaborate on their experiences with this issue in PA? Maybe some other law enforcement officers that might post here?

I really want to ride with the doors off!!! But i also don't want to get a ticket!

My brother is an officer in the lehigh valley and he told me that hes pretty sure its legal to ride with them off

aspohr89 01-24-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baychar (Post 3270933)
My brother is an officer in the lehigh valley and he told me that hes pretty sure its legal to ride with them off

See cops mostly dont know or just dont care if it's illegal, they have real problems to attend to

amber324 01-24-2013 12:28 PM

ive gotten pulled over twice now for no doors in pa, still no ticket yet

baychar 01-25-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber324 (Post 3271888)
ive gotten pulled over twice now for no doors in pa, still no ticket yet

Well im hoping for a very early spring so the top and doors come off. I dont know how much longer I can wait!

watusibison 01-31-2013 10:47 AM

Knock on wood but my wife and I have the tube doors on most of the summer and so far, we have not been pulled over - driving mostly in SE Lancaster county.

Shermdo 02-11-2013 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewisz7hunter
Can anyone tell me from their run in's with the law, or just general knowledge, if the tube style doors satisfy "door requirements"?

What door requirement? Can anyone site a statue that states that doors are required on all motor vehicles? Can anyone site a statue that includes the legal description of said required doors?

Another thing that I would like to share is that cops are NOT good sources of legal advise. In many ways they are the worse source because so many of them just "know" that they are correct and do not want to discuss the topic -- whatever the topic might be.

As for the Deputy Sheriffs in PA. They do not issue traffic tickets / citations and have zero power of arrest unless they are serving a warrant from a court. They are technically not regular cops. They are not required to even receive all of the same training.

Please do not think that I an anti law enforcement officer. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I have many family and friends who are cops of many type including my grandfather and me oldest son.

I am a new Wrangler owner so I would really like to know the real facts about the legality of doors being required on motor vehicles in PA. I NEVER allow anyone to ride in any vehicle that I am driving without their seatbelt properly fastened so I am not to worried about falling out.

ltsrapcon 02-15-2013 05:35 AM

I think its more lack of mirrors than lack of doors. And I believe someone already as nswered that by posting PA state law that only requires one usable mirror. I still plan on getting a small mirror to mount in the top hing when I take my doors/mirrors off. Not because of some sort of law but because I think its safer.

CrazyYJ 02-17-2013 07:25 AM

Yep need a drivers mirror... When I lived in pa I rocked a cj mirror mount that I attached to the stock hinge. When your not using it, it swings over nicely and sits under the windshield

ztman 02-17-2013 07:45 AM

Here is your answer for driving without oem doors in pa. PA Jeeps with no doors - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum

muddyjeepgirl 02-20-2013 12:32 AM

I drove around ALL summer long and some into the fall with no doors, and no mirrors besides my rearview! HA! Passed a cop once or twice with no mirrors, and they either werent looking or didnt care. I drove all over Lebanon county, and nobody ever said anything to me. Half the time i was barefoot, which IS illegal.

cloverbagkid 03-16-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baychar (Post 3270933)
My brother is an officer in the lehigh valley and he told me that hes pretty sure its legal to ride with them off

Well since I live in the Valley I hope your brother doesn't pull me over! :thumb:

Flamered2000tj 03-17-2013 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloverbagkid (Post 3511816)
Well since I live in the Valley I hope your brother doesn't pull me over! :thumb:

It's legal you just need to have side mirrors

bittercritter 03-18-2013 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamered2000tj (Post 3515980)

It's legal you just need to have side mirrors

Pa code says you only need one mirror, so you don't need your side mirrors

bittercritter 03-18-2013 08:26 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bittercritter (Post 3518240)

pa code says you only need one mirror, so you don't need your side mirrors



Attachment 224320

cloverbagkid 03-19-2013 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamered2000tj (Post 3515980)
It's legal you just need to have side mirrors

Well i got two! my teacher gave me motorcycle mirrors and I got a friend to weld the bolt to it so i can put them one


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