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-   -   Looking to buy headers (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/looking-to-buy-headers-192468.html)

dvogel11 10-10-2012 12:13 PM

Looking to buy headers
 
Hey guys, I have a 99 tj 4.0 and Im looking to buy headers for performance and sound reasons. Any tips? anyone selling? Things to avoid?

Thanks for the help

97wrangler-242 10-10-2012 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvogel11
Hey guys, I have a 99 tj 4.0 and Im looking to buy headers for performance and sound reasons. Any tips? anyone selling? Things to avoid?

Thanks for the help

No personal experience but I've heard good things about Borla and banks

Jerry Bransford 10-10-2012 12:36 PM

Your TJ 4.0L did not come with an exhaust manifold if that's what you're thinking, it came with headers right from the factory.

Both Banks and Borla have earned reputations for their 4.0L headers cracking for the same reason the early TJ's headers cracked... engine torque flexing them. Jeep fixed the problem with the OE headers by adding a pair of steel flex joints where they were cracking but neither Banks nor Borla have bothered to do the same on their standard headers. Banks finally came out with their Revolver header that is supposed to be crack resistant but I sure wouldn't replace your OE header with one unless what you have is cracked and in need of replacement.

97wrangler-242 10-10-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
Your TJ 4.0L did not come with an exhaust manifold if that's what you're thinking, it came with headers right from the factory.

Both Banks and Borla have earned reputations for their 4.0L headers cracking for the same reason the early TJ's headers cracked... engine torque flexing them. Jeep fixed the problem with the OE headers by adding a pair of steel flex joints where they were cracking but neither Banks nor Borla have bothered to do the same on their standard headers. Banks finally came out with their Revolver header that is supposed to be crack resistant but I sure wouldn't replace your OE header with one unless what you have is cracked and in need of replacement.

The revolver is what I had in mind but couldn't remember the name. Never heard of Borla cracking though

Jerry Bransford 10-10-2012 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97wrangler-242 (Post 2877190)
... Never heard of Borla cracking though

They are well known for cracking on the 4.0L engine. Same with Banks.

For Borla click on Google search results... cracked Borla headers

BNotrab 10-10-2012 03:04 PM

Jerry's right! No need to replace a stock header that has flex joints unless you want to do the job twice. :-)

philk 10-15-2012 12:29 PM

one set of factory headers per year for 3 years all cracked, got tired of paying the labor for the parts were free, put a borla header on an wow felt more response and a deep growl, that was 6 years ago, no crack in mine yet, million mile warranty, been in 100 to 10 degree weather, should of done it right away.

4cylToy 10-15-2012 01:29 PM

I have banks power full exhaust. Including headers. No cracks yet. Lifetime warranty I believe. Atleast on rusting and defects, which should include cracks

Jerry Bransford 10-15-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philk (Post 2891698)
one set of factory headers per year for 3 years all cracked, got tired of paying the labor for the parts were free, put a borla header on an wow felt more response and a deep growl, that was 6 years ago, no crack in mine yet, million mile warranty, been in 100 to 10 degree weather, should of done it right away.

What year TJ and when were those replacements installed?

kennisondan 10-15-2012 11:09 PM

WAIT: CONFUSED.. is the OEM for my 99 TJ a flex part
 
is the OEM now fitted with a flex portion to stop the tendency to crack?
or do I need to go with a later OEM, ??
I have a cracked exhaust manifold to replace.
thanks
dan kennison

philk 10-16-2012 12:59 PM

the oem with the flex portion crack but not there, dont waste your time withone, do a banks or borla, or do it again a year later.

Jerry Bransford 10-16-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennisondan (Post 2893896)
is the OEM now fitted with a flex portion to stop the tendency to crack?
or do I need to go with a later OEM, ??
I have a cracked exhaust manifold to replace.
thanks
dan kennison

Early '99 headers did not have the flex joints, that upgrade came later in the '99 model year. My dealer replaced my '97 TJ's cracked headers twice under warranty with the original non-flex joint version so I had three headers in a row that cracked. Then my dealer replaced it again but with the updated header in late '99 that had the flex joints and it worked fine without cracking for the next 11 years and 160K miles. The new version header was fine the last time I saw that TJ when it was stolen in 2010.

The updated factory design with the flex joints is well known to hold up, it certainly did for me after the three previous non-flex joint headers cracked. :)

Cons_Table 10-16-2012 01:39 PM

About 2 and a half years ago I bought the Banks Torque Tube Headers. About 6 months ago, they started leaking. Climbed underneath...and sure enough 2 nice cracks in the headers (I would post pics if I was at my computer at home). I called the warranty and they sent me a new set...which are the new Revolver headers. They have been on for probably 4 months...no issues yet (minus a bolt that started backing out, creating a leak...my fault though). Only time will tell if the Revolvers fix the cracking problem.:popcorn:

Cons_Table 10-16-2012 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philk (Post 2895811)
the oem with the flex portion crack but not there, dont waste your time withone, do a banks or borla, or do it again a year later.

My jeep is a 99...assuming the original owner never replaced the headers, that means my jeep got 11 years and 84000 miles out of the stock set.

I replaced the stock set with the Banks 2 years ago (after probably 20000 miles) due to a crack.

So unless the Revolver headers fix the cracking issue...the flex joints make more sense. $100ish for stock replacements and 11 years of abuse...or $300ish for Banks and 2 years of abuse...hmmm.

I dont know about you guys but replacing headers is a crappy job...I hate it. I rather not being doing it every 2 years.

Jerry Bransford 10-16-2012 01:53 PM

Banks' and Borla's headers are both well known for cracking on the 4.0L. Banks had to come out with the beefed up Revolver design to stop theirs from cracking. For what their headers cost I would sure just go with the updated factory design header with the pair of flex joints... they are well known to hold up fine.

Cons_Table 10-16-2012 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 2895942)
Both Banks and Borla are well known for cracked headers on the 4.0L. Banks had to come out with the beefed up Revolver design to stop from cracking. For what they cost I would sure just go with the updated factory design with the pair of flex joints... they are well known to hold up fine.

I bought the Banks before I found this forum and knew any better. I got sucked into the marketing:doh: If I had it to do over again, I would have gone the cheap route and bought the stock replacements with the flex joints. My jeep came from the factory with them...but after 11 years finally cracked.

Thankfully Banks has an awesome warranty and is easy to work with...now I can only hope these Revolvers hold up like they are supposed to.

Kill The Infidel 10-21-2012 11:26 PM

Uh, how do you tell if you have flex joints. I am taking my 97 on a long road trip in march and am trying to bullet proof and fix any problems that could arise. I was looking at a header because I hear they crack

Cons_Table 10-22-2012 01:08 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kill The Infidel
Uh, how do you tell if you have flex joints. I am taking my 97 on a long road trip in march and am trying to bullet proof and fix any problems that could arise. I was looking at a header because I hear they crack

Notice the "crinkled" part of the header that looks like it could flex. However, if u are not experiencing an exhaust leak (annoying tick) then I don't see why u would need to change anything.

Kill The Infidel 10-22-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cons_Table

Notice the "crinkled" part of the header that looks like it could flex. However, if u are not experiencing an exhaust leak (annoying tick) then I don't see why u would need to change anything.

That is the philosophy that I live by too. I was looking to swap it out for a little more power, but if I run the risk of messing up a good thing, im not gonna worry about it

UnlimitedLJ04 10-22-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvogel11 (Post 2877019)
Hey guys, I have a 99 tj 4.0 and Im looking to buy headers for performance and sound reasons. Any tips? anyone selling? Things to avoid?

Thanks for the help

go to 2000+ cast style 2-piece manifolds from a WJ or XJ in the junkyard, with a new Walker downpipe 52317.

Fallujahcoyote 10-31-2012 12:58 PM

Did a rebuild in 09 and put BANKS Pro Power 2" headers and all. Stored my TJ for 13 months in NC while I was "out of town" then picked it up and back to daily driver. End state is less than 3 years and minimal miles I have multiple cracks and need to replace now. Jerry is right, usually is and BANKS simply makes too much money on other products to be concerned with Jeep owners. Gonna try to get replacement from BANKS with warranty but not recomending them if you have not spent the $$ yet.

willms81 10-31-2012 01:05 PM

If these are all cracking from engine movement, why not find some solid poly motor mounts or at a minimum motor mount inserts to keep the motor from moving so much? If anything you can fill the oem mounts with window weld and it will also help.

Most people install headers for power gains. That's is the only reason I would install a set. Which may happen eventually.

Cons_Table 10-31-2012 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willms81 (Post 2946206)
If these are all cracking from engine movement, why not find some solid poly motor mounts or at a minimum motor mount inserts to keep the motor from moving so much? If anything you can fill the oem mounts with window weld and it will also help.

This depends if the driver wants any additional cab vibrations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willms81 (Post 2946206)
Most people install headers for power gains. That's is the only reason I would install a set. Which may happen eventually.

Good luck...if you are to see any gains it will be at extremely high RPMs. Putting banks headers on didnt do anything for me other than change the tone a little when I open it up, but I was ignorant and bought into the ads and hype.

Jerry Bransford 10-31-2012 01:17 PM

Not many with experience with polyurethane engine mounts will recommend them... which is why aftermarket motor mount manufacturers like Brown Dog who initially only had polyurethane mounts later ended up adding rubber mounts. Polyurethane transmits engine vibrations that are isolated with rubber mounts which is why OE manufacturers use only rubber mounts. My first aftermarket engine mounts from Currie used polyurethane and I was happy later when I was able to replace them with rubber mounts.

willms81 10-31-2012 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 2946260)
Not many with experience with poly engine mounts will recommend them... which is why motor mount manufacturers like Brown Dog who initially only had polyurethane mounts later ended up adding rubber mounts. Polyurethane transmits engine vibrations that are isolated with rubber mounts which is why OE manufacturers use only rubber mounts. My first aftermarket engine mounts from Currie used polyurethane and I was happy later when I was able to replace them with rubber mounts.

Agreed on the extra vibrations, but it all comes down to what you want out of your vehicle.

I have personal experience with Energy Suspension motor mount inserts, and have been in 2 different cars that were running poly mounts. I know what the difference feels like. But in order to remove the horrendous spring bolt design from my car I needed to stiffen my mounts up when I replaced my entire system from the head back.

As for power gains from a 4.0 header system, I don't know. Haven't done enough research to see what the gains are, where they are, and if there are any. I am toying with the idea but they are pretty far down on my mod list for right now.

Jerry Bransford 10-31-2012 01:22 PM

Not to mention the TJ's 4.0L engine comes with headers from the factory, not a cast exhaust manifold.

Cons_Table 10-31-2012 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willms81 (Post 2946270)
As for power gains from a 4.0 header system, I don't know. Haven't done enough research to see what the gains are, where they are, and if there are any. I am toying with the idea but they are pretty far down on my mod list for right now.

http://assets.bankspower.com/prod_in...r_chart_sm.jpg

willms81 10-31-2012 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 2946275)
Not to mention the TJ's 4.0L engine comes with headers from the factory, not a cast exhaust manifold.

That doesn't necessarily mean the design can't be improved upon.

Also, that is kind of like saying the oem exhaust is fine and can't be replaced to free up power.

Jerry Bransford 10-31-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willms81 (Post 2946290)
That doesn't necessarily mean the design can't be improved upon.

Also, that is kind of like saying the oem exhaust is fine and can't be replaced to free up power.

Will the insignificant gains from an aftermarket header compared to the OE header be worth the significant $$$ and effort to install? Not even close in my personal opinion. Not to mention the most commonly installed aftermarket headers from Banks and Borla have earned a well-deserved reputation for cracking. Banks is about the only one to have finally come out with a better design, their Revolver, that seems to have solved their cracking issue that was solved years ago with the OE headers.

willms81 10-31-2012 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 2946307)
Will the insignificant gains from an aftermarket header be worth the significant $$$ and effort to install? Not even close in my personal opinion. Not to mention the most commonly installed aftermarket headers have earned a well-deserved reputation for cracking.

Effort to install is the least of my worries. A weekend in my garage and I'm good. As for pricing, again I haven't looked into them much yet. Also, IF the dyno above is anywhere near correct 22 whp gains are not insignificant. At 140 whp that is an increase of 15%. Not exactly small.

The cracking is a drawback, unless you take the necessary steps to keep the engine movement at a minimum.

Again, this all boils down to what you want out of your vehicle.


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