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-   -   trail building in nova ( woodbridge ) on my own land (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f116/trail-building-in-nova-woodbridge-on-my-own-land-194483.html)

st0rmtr00per 10-21-2012 12:17 PM

trail building in nova ( woodbridge ) on my own land
 
Ok, So I have 6.5 acres just off cardinal road. Thinking about making a few trails around my yard. But i will need help doing so. Here is my question. Do I take any risk allowing people to come onto my property and help me build trails? With them helping I will give them the right to wheel. But say someone gets hurt or breaks their jeep. Am I gonna get hit with some kind of lawsuit. or any repercussions? I would love to give people a local spot to get a little dirty. No my yard wont turn into the most epic trails ever, but a local safe offroading spot for us woodbridge jeepers would be cool. let me no what the deal is.

ltdanyj 10-21-2012 02:50 PM

It's a good question that I wish I could answer... Especially since I'm local and willing to lend a hand!!!!

jp2611 10-21-2012 02:59 PM

There is a similair type place here in IN, so not sure how much laws/ liability differ, Anyway place is called ______Jeep Farm (would prefer not to broadcast their name). They do allow friends/ and events there but there is a waiver form that must be signed. They don't have a lot of room but they can handle almost 200 Jeeps because of the lay out and trail guides stationed throughout the property.

Most things at their "home" is to raise money for non-profits mainly Veterans.

bbtj 10-22-2012 08:36 AM

Off hand, I would say yes, you could possibly open yourself up to lawsuits. You need to check with an attorney in your area. Depending on the state, a lot of those waivers people sign aren't worth the paper they are printed on. You might also check with your insurance agent, see if your insurance will even cover that or if you are going to need additional coverage.

st0rmtr00per 10-22-2012 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbtj
Off hand, I would say yes, you could possibly open yourself up to lawsuits. You need to check with an attorney in your area. Depending on the state, a lot of those waivers people sign aren't worth the paper they are printed on. You might also check with your insurance agent, see if your insurance will even cover that or if you are going to need additional coverage.

Thanks for the heads up. to bad this is all news i dont wanna here. got the first trail started this weekend.

bbtj 10-23-2012 07:47 AM

Yep
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st0rmtr00per (Post 2913722)
Thanks for the heads up. to bad this is all news i dont wanna here. got the first trail started this weekend.

It sucks, but we live in a law suit happy soceity.

st0rmtr00per 10-23-2012 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbtj

It sucks, but we live in a law suit happy soceity.

Yep. I am canning the idea. i am only gonna allow personal friends on my land. i cant take the risk. It sucks to. i have great prperty for it. all woods. 6.5 in dale city. A pond. A garage for repairs.

st0rmtr00per 10-23-2012 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st0rmtr00per

Yep. I am canning the idea. i am only gonna allow personal friends on my land. i cant take the risk. It sucks to. i have great prperty for it. all woods. 6.5 in dale city. A pond. A garage for repairs.

But anyone who can help me find a set of 33s and the most mild lift needed will be an immediate friend. lol

PhotoWrangler 10-23-2012 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbtj (Post 2917093)
It sucks, but we live in a law suit happy soceity.


Yup. And the OP's situation would fall under civil law here in Texas, which means anyone can sue anyone else for anything.... I wouldn't invite anyone onto my land for a dangerous activity unless they were close friends - and even then I'd have to scrutinize it.

bbtj 10-24-2012 08:47 AM

same here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhotoWrangler (Post 2917139)
Yup. And the OP's situation would fall under civil law here in Texas, which means anyone can sue anyone else for anything.... I wouldn't invite anyone onto my land for a dangerous activity unless they were close friends - and even then I'd have to scrutinize it.

It's the same way here in Missouri.

Six 10-24-2012 01:22 PM

RK 2.5" and Duractracs! Can I be your friend now?

st0rmtr00per 10-24-2012 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six
RK 2.5" and Duractracs! Can I be your friend now?

Im looking to buy is that for sale

BlueRidgeYJ 10-24-2012 10:29 PM

Welcome to Commonwealths, my friends! Governed by years of logic back to the Magna Carta in ~1250AD, iirc.

No, you assume no responsibility or liability for damage arising from use of your land, with or without permission, and if permission is granted for virtually any recreational activity, you do NOT assert that it is safe to engage in said activity on your land. Exceptions are gross negligence (you didnt mention the pet Puma), malicious intent (you built booby traps), or compensation was received from them.

Read this, with reference to parts (C) & (D).
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+29.1-509
If you have any questions about the jabberjaw Ill try to decipher. Express is when you tell them it is OK, implied is when you DONT block the path/gate or put up no trespass signs.


It stems off the va trespass laws. Unless you have been notified (written, verbal, posted, court order), it isnt trespass. Virginia - it is the peoples land to wander.

I am not a lawyer, this is not difinitive legal advice. While state law trumps local law, a local ordinance may otherwise conflict with your plan. Consult a local licensed attorney of the Commonwealth for legal advice.

Reckless Robb 10-25-2012 12:01 AM

I'm going through the same dilemma here in Arkansas. I purchased an awesome piece of property for wheelin (totally against my hunting friends advice) consisting of just under 200 acres with approx. 5 miles of fence line. I have a pretty decent insurance policy however it's not good enough for bringing in large groups of people and their friends. Any help or direction into an insurance company that one of the ORV parks uses would be Awesome for me and the rest of ya that want to do this.
It's great to see others heading in the same direction of wanting to share their land!

bbtj 10-25-2012 09:31 AM

Check
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reckless Robb (Post 2923732)
I'm going through the same dilemma here in Arkansas. I purchased an awesome piece of property for wheelin (totally against my hunting friends advice) consisting of just under 200 acres with approx. 5 miles of fence line. I have a pretty decent insurance policy however it's not good enough for bringing in large groups of people and their friends. Any help or direction into an insurance company that one of the ORV parks uses would be Awesome for me and the rest of ya that want to do this.
It's great to see others heading in the same direction of wanting to share their land!

I would check with your insurance agent, see if he has or can make a recommendation. If that doesn't work, I suggest calling a commercial off-road park and see if they will tell who they use.

st0rmtr00per 10-25-2012 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbtj

I would check with your insurance agent, see if he has or can make a recommendation. If that doesn't work, I suggest calling a commercial off-road park and see if they will tell who they use.

I am canning the idea. i will and can not afford this risk. the traiks will be for me and my friends only. Sorry.

BlueRidgeYJ 10-25-2012 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st0rmtr00per

I am canning the idea. i will and can not afford this risk....

It is your land, by all means use it as you choose. But, let me say again, there is NO legal risk. Per VA staute 29.1-509. Duty of care and liability for damages of landowners to hunters, fishermen, sightseers, etc.
"...
B. A landowner shall owe no duty of care to keep land or premises safe for entry or use by others for hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, participation in water sports, boating, hiking, rock climbing, sightseeing, hang gliding, skydiving, horseback riding, foxhunting, racing, bicycle riding or collecting, gathering, cutting or removing firewood, for any other recreational use, for ingress and egress over such premises to permit passage to other property used for recreational purposes or for use of an easement granted to the Commonwealth or any agency thereof or any not-for-profit organization granted tax-exempt status under 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code to permit public passage across such land for access to a public park, historic site, or other public recreational area. No landowner shall be required to give any warning of hazardous conditions or uses of, structures on, or activities on such land or premises to any person entering on the land or premises for such purposes, except as provided in subsection D. The provisions of this subsection apply without regard to whether the landowner has given permission to a person to use their land for recreational purposes.

C. Any landowner who gives permission, express or implied, to another person to hunt, fish, launch and retrieve boats, swim, ride, foxhunt, trap, camp, hike, bicycle, rock climb, hang glide, skydive, sightsee, engage in races, to collect, gather, cut or remove forest products upon land or premises for the personal use of such person, or for the use of an easement or license as set forth in subsection B does not thereby:

1. Impliedly or expressly represent that the premises are safe for such purposes; or

2. Constitute the person to whom such permission has been granted an invitee or licensee to whom a duty of care is owed; or

3. Assume responsibility for or incur liability for any intentional or negligent acts of such person or any other person, except as provided in subsection D.

D. Nothing contained in this section, except as provided in subsection E, shall limit the liability of a landowner which may otherwise arise or exist by reason of his gross negligence or willful or malicious failure to guard or warn against a dangerous condition, use, structure, or activity. The provisions of this section shall not limit the liability of a landowner which may otherwise arise or exist when the landowner receives a fee for use of the premises or to engage in any activity described in subsections B and C.
..."

Why would you need insurance when you aren't liable? Furthermore, if someone were to argue building trails is an improvement of the land and thereby compensation, part (A) actually states "any action taken by another to improve the land or access to the land for the purposes set forth in subsections B and C or remedying damage caused by such uses" is not a "Fee" or compensation.

Don't know anything about Arkansas law, sorry.


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