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-   -   Used 2011 worth it? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/used-2011-worth-it-198473.html)

BManz 11-09-2012 05:19 PM

Used 2011 worth it?
 
I'm going to buy a JK Wrangler for work use, no question. But, still on the fence about going with a used/new 2012 or 2013 Wrangler because of the Pentastar head issue and I can save $6k out-the-door vs new if I go 2011. I don't need power (not towing) but really want the new interior hence the 2011.

So, at a down-south dealer I found a great-condition 2011 JK 2dr S-package, dual tops, 4spd auto with 14,000 miles for $20,900. It's at a foreign car dealer (not telling what state) and that's their cash price to get it off the lot (beyond 100 days and because the hard top has a leak that wets the front floor on both sides).

I think the price is good -- they know new Wranglers are hot with the 3.6, but is it worth it to go with a 2011 to save that $6k? For those who traded up from 2011 are there any regrets? It's still under 3/36 warranty so I could seek a dealer about the leak or fix it myself, no worries. I'm wondering if I haven't thought about all the angles of 2011 vs 2012/2013. Thanks for any "think about this" kind of feedback.

P.S. Yes I've driven 2011s, 2012s and 2013s both auto and manual. No different feel for the way I drive.

positrak 11-09-2012 05:35 PM

brand new '12 auto regular sport

$21,300 without even negotiating.

sorry you can't differentiate between the 285 hp engine vs old 202hp and new 5 speed.

But the number above suggests that dealer's price isn't very good imo.


Cars for Sale: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Sport in Clarksville, MD 21029: Sport Utility Details - 323511574 - AutoTrader.com

BManz 11-09-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by positrak (Post 2977318)
brand new '12 auto regular sport

$21,300 without even negotiating.

Thanks, that's a soft top with no options and I can get that deal on a bare bones Wrangler in Chicago too. I'm looking for auto, both tops, S-pkg, power pkg (windows/mirror) which go for about $26,700 discounted and that's if I can even find dual tops on the lot.

BManz 11-09-2012 06:06 PM

Here's what I'm looking for in a 2013, equipped identically to the 2011 I just found while on business: New Jeep Wrangler, Schaumburg, IL, SUV, Zeigler Chrysler Dodge Jeep of Schaumburg Stock: 130281 Chicago, Elgin, and Skokie Area

What I'm saying is the 2011 is the same as this 2013, without connectivity but with the old 3.8 and 4spd. The work duty is for commuting and visiting unimproved property (i.e. off pavement) on a regular basis and will be also used for fun and for teaching a teen how to drive.

positrak 11-09-2012 06:11 PM

auto with a/c actually:

http://tinyurl.com/c9pry3x

the idea here is to work backwards, plug in a used 2012 with the options you desire with the same milage as the 2011 and see what is available etc.

New Cars, Used Cars - Find Cars at AutoTrader.com

positrak 11-09-2012 06:20 PM

Here's the 2012 data, models, all options, both invoice and list prices:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ad-101089.html

build up or cost out what you are interested in figger on 2% below the total invoice price and then expect much more on negotiations. You're timing is perfect end of the year and lots of '12's anxiously seeking new homes. If you want to juggle prices, work on used wiht 'x' milage based on what can be found on autotrader / other etc.

You can be sure that that non-jeep dealer has plenty of room in there. Ignore their understanding or what they say about Jeeps and the new 3.6.

Pretty sure with some effort you can get to you're required price along with required options either new or used with the 3.6 and new transmission. Forfeit some options if necessary, you cannot beat the new engine and transmission.

positrak 11-09-2012 06:23 PM

you can even do this :cool:

25,000 = 21,000 as in that dealer's offer really = 20,000 on sit down

therefore

27,000 = 23,000 = 22,000 on sit down

brand new if you find the right dealer.

You're after a 2011, with 15,000 miles for 20,000.

positrak 11-09-2012 06:37 PM

You're in Chicago?

Pat's your man, he'll sort you out properly, ping him!

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ml#post2963312

BManz 11-09-2012 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by positrak (Post 2977397)
auto with a/c actually:

http://tinyurl.com/c9pry3x
the idea here is to work backwards, plug in a used 2012 with the options you desire with the same milage as the 2011 and see what is available etc.
New Cars, Used Cars - Find Cars at AutoTrader.com

:9lame:Really? Sorry, You think I haven't been there? Nothing available used/new under even $25,000 with a loaded option set -- that's the whole point of my query here. Is the $6000+ savings (plus the $$$$ tax savings) a reasonable amount to skip on buying a 2013 with the Penta + 5spd? What may I be overlooking? Keep in mind I've researched JKs for the past year or more.

BManz 11-09-2012 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by positrak (Post 2977476)
You're in Chicago?

Pat's your man, he'll sort you out properly, ping him!

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/201...ml#post2963312

Look at my posted link. Pat can't touch price. Sorry. Been there too. Please don't respond with sale links. That's not my question. Your answer is fine: a loaded 2011 with low miles sucks at $20,000 $21,000. Got it thank you.

positrak 11-09-2012 06:46 PM

Good luck then. :thumb:

cozmo2312 11-09-2012 06:50 PM

i hope so cause i just picked up a 2011 rubicon with 7k miles to go with our 2012 sport, lol.

it's got the 6speed and even at 4k feet altitude it's miles better than my 4banger tacoma that i got rid of.

BManz 11-09-2012 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by positrak (Post 2977423)
you can even do this :cool:

25,000 = 21,000 as in that dealer's offer really = 20,000 on sit down

therefore

27,000 = 23,000 = 22,000 on sit down

brand new if you find the right dealer.

You're after a loaded 2011, with 15,000 miles for 20,000.

(fixed it for you)
LOL. You get me an $29,000+ MSRP 2013 JK Sport 2dr for $22,000 and I'll pay you to do the deal. It. Isn't. Happening. I'll even bet David Axelrod's mustache on it.:cool:

nwbronco 11-09-2012 06:56 PM

If you are happy with the deal go for it. I thnk most of the folks responding are not into the packages that are available. I found on '09 for the missus, with the options and color she wanted. New ones could be found, but not even close in price doing the option to option comparison. I think we spent 3 or 4 months looking at new vs. low mileage used. I didn't really discuss it on the list. Heck, most of the guys responding would probably be half my age and not want what I want in the same order.

I bought my daughter an '04 TJ as well.

I personally would stay away from '12s and later. I've wrenched on a few and have a few friends with one. Some have had issues, others have not. If I were to buy new, I'd wait until at least '14 and hope the wrangler gets the 8spd auto.


Bob K.

BManz 11-09-2012 07:10 PM

Yeah nwbronco from what I've seen the past year the price looked right -- for a loaded one. The issues with the 2012s made me pause on even the 2013s given that another shoe may yet drop. I don't need "new" for my work vehicle unless the deal was unbelievable. So I might miss some street performance? Eh. That's what sports cars or my scoots-for-an-SUV Hemi Grand are for.

I felt maybe the loaded 2011 was a good find and at more than $6000 savings, plus tax savings, & felt I could use that cash for tires and a bumper/winch and save the rest for another one later after the, ahem, 2016 redesign arrives. I'm wondering what others are paying for loaded 2011s with the new interior and older powertrain (should have stated that originally). I do really dig the new interior and cannot even look inside at the 2007-2010s anymore.

Farnham21 11-09-2012 07:19 PM

Your 2011 is not loaded so stop calling it that. Loaded is leather heated seats connectivity 3.73 gears. The engine is junk

BManz 11-09-2012 07:26 PM

This is what I was looking at. In 2011 when I started looking they said leather wasn't available nor connectivity, at that time anyway, for the Sport. I was mistaken reading my handwriting it is 19,000 miles and I'm passing because I have to catch a plane:
AutoTrader.com[JEEP[WRANGLER[]][]]&featureCodes=10&doorCodes=2&modelCode1=WRANGLER&s ortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=100011646&ma keCode1=JEEP&startYear=2011&searchRadius=0&listing Id=329966418&Log=0

TexMedic 11-09-2012 07:53 PM

Wait... You're talking about a used Jeep that's been sitting on a dealers lot for 100+ days with a leaking roof that has water that fills both floor boards and you're worried about issues on a brand new 2012+?

travis29 11-09-2012 09:03 PM

U try sherman dodge in skokie?

nwbronco 11-10-2012 01:38 AM

We have a loaded '11 JKU Rubicon. And yes, it's loaded. Heated leather, heated mirrors, Nav, bluetooth, remote start, auto temp. Still stock, it's the family truckster. We each have our own toys.

It is a personal thing. Opinions are what they are. And every body has one.

Bob K.

Deepjeep1371 11-10-2012 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwbronco
If you are happy with the deal go for it. I thnk most of the folks responding are not into the packages that are available. I found on '09 for the missus, with the options and color she wanted. New ones could be found, but not even close in price doing the option to option comparison. I think we spent 3 or 4 months looking at new vs. low mileage used. I didn't really discuss it on the list. Heck, most of the guys responding would probably be half my age and not want what I want in the same order.

I bought my daughter an '04 TJ as well.

I personally would stay away from '12s and later. I've wrenched on a few and have a few friends with one. Some have had issues, others have not. If I were to buy new, I'd wait until at least '14 and hope the wrangler gets the 8spd auto.

Bob K.

Why not wait till 2020 when all cars will fly. Jeeps will go to the moon and be maintenance free.

thinkxingu 11-10-2012 05:37 AM

BManz, in case you haven't figured it out, everybody here has purchased their Jeeps at 25% below invoice and the 3.8 kills puppies.
That being said, I bought my '10 in July because I actually liked the old interior better, it had the exact right features I wanted, low miles, and I saved somewhere in the $4k range. Some would say that's not enough to save for used, but my rationale: one less year of payments and the depreciation hit has already been taken. In fact, I saw an almost exact version of mine, with double the mileage, sell for $1000 more than what I paid last week.

In the end, if you like it and the price is satisfactory, rock it! Good luck.

S

PS I've come to discover that the 3.8 is fine- it's really the 4 speed tranny that requires a little finesse. But, having come from an S/C Frontier and F-150, I'm more than satisfied.

BManz 11-10-2012 09:49 AM

25% below invoice. Nope I don't believe it considering I know the owner of a Jeep dealership where he could get me a deal less than employee pricing on a new 2013. It's still going to be almost $6000 more, given the same options, than the 2011. Even my friend the dealer principal told me as much; I've seen their holdback, their monthly kicker for volume sales and I also can get military/police discounts -- it still is a $6000 difference given the same option package I'm looking at.

That said, the members here, whom I respect, are saying the 3.8/4spd combo is so bad that I should just spend $6000 more to have the Pentastar/5spd combo, all else being equal. This isn't a question of "how cheap can I get into a Wrangler?" issue. Please. If I wanted a new Rubi I could go buy one for $29,000 well-equipped. But, I'm pragmatic and don't NEED a Rubi.

I could buy a base hardtop 2013 with auto for $23,000 but it has nothing else I'd like and I'm not seeing a $6000 advantage, equalizing the option comparison, just to get the Penta/W5A580.

The question again, is what issues may I have overlooked in looking at a used 2011 vs spending $6000+ more on a 2013 IF EQUIPPED THE SAME WAY? What I seem to be hearing is the 3.8 in 2011 is garbage. I didn't find any evidence of mechanical issues -for 2011- in my research. Care to provide details that I may have missed? Anyone? That's the kind of thing I'm wondering about.

BTW, the dealer was full of it with the 100 day thing as the carfax I saw before leaving showed they had it for a short time. The sales dufus thought the top leaked, but they don't have it installed tight (I didn't tell them). If it did leak, leaks are easily fixed and not as serious as potential engine head design issues, IMHO. I think that's why he gave me the 100 day line as well; they're Jeep illiterate and wanted to flip it quick.

Corrected Link:2011 Used Jeep Wrangler 4WD 2dr Sport at Mercedes-Benz of Chantilly Serving Washington, D.C., Fairfax, VA, IID 9327632

This is a really nice solid 2011 for anyone looking. OK, it's 90%-loaded, LOL. I'm back home now so I'm not looking at it anymore.

Farnham21 11-10-2012 10:53 AM

There isn't mechanical problems with the 3.8 it's just the pathetic what 210 hp compared to the 285 5speed autos in the 2012s. Also mpg supposedly went up and steptronic comes standard which is very helpful when merging and racing sports cars at red lights :thumb:

Spedly 11-10-2012 11:02 AM

If you were going to get a 6-speed I'd say go for it. There is no way I would buy an auto '11 though. I had every intention of buying an auto when I got my '11. I drove one and ended up with a 6-speed. The 3.8 isn't bad, but the trans absolutely kills any sort of power that it has.

nwbronco 11-10-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deepjeep1371 (Post 2978699)
Why not wait till 2020 when all cars will fly. Jeeps will go to the moon and be maintenance free.


Heheheh, that is if I am around in 2020.


Bob K.

MCDavis 11-10-2012 01:27 PM

From reading your comments, it looks to me like you've already made up your mind.

Go buy the 2011 and enjoy your Jeep!

kjeeper10 11-10-2012 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BManz
25% below invoice. Nope I don't believe it considering I know the owner of a Jeep dealership where he could get me a deal less than employee pricing on a new 2013. It's still going to be almost $6000 more, given the same options, than the 2011. Even my friend the dealer principal told me as much; I've seen their holdback, their monthly kicker for volume sales and I also can get military/police discounts -- it still is a $6000 difference given the same option package I'm looking at.

That said, the members here, whom I respect, are saying the 3.8/4spd combo is so bad that I should just spend $6000 more to have the Pentastar/5spd combo, all else being equal. This isn't a question of "how cheap can I get into a Wrangler?" issue. Please. If I wanted a new Rubi I could go buy one for $29,000 well-equipped. But, I'm pragmatic and don't NEED a Rubi.

I could buy a base hardtop 2013 with auto for $23,000 but it has nothing else I'd like and I'm not seeing a $6000 advantage, equalizing the option comparison, just to get the Penta/W5A580.

The question again, is what issues may I have overlooked in looking at a used 2011 vs spending $6000+ more on a 2013 IF EQUIPPED THE SAME WAY? What I seem to be hearing is the 3.8 in 2011 is garbage. I didn't find any evidence of mechanical issues -for 2011- in my research. Care to provide details that I may have missed? Anyone? That's the kind of thing I'm wondering about.

BTW, the dealer was full of it with the 100 day thing as the carfax I saw before leaving showed they had it for a short time. The sales dufus thought the top leaked, but they don't have it installed tight (I didn't tell them). If it did leak, leaks are easily fixed and not as serious as potential engine head design issues, IMHO. I think that's why he gave me the 100 day line as well; they're Jeep illiterate and wanted to flip it quick.

Corrected Link:2011 Used Jeep Wrangler 4WD 2dr Sport at Mercedes-Benz of Chantilly Serving Washington, D.C., Fairfax, VA, IID 9327632

This is a really nice solid 2011 for anyone looking. OK, it's 90%-loaded, LOL. I'm back home now so I'm not looking at it anymore.

^ 25% below invoice was a joke lol

thinkxingu 11-10-2012 02:40 PM

I'm glad somebody picked up on my sarcasm.

My point was that the prices between used and new aren't as close as most people here say, which is usually the first comment to be made.

The considerations you need to make are: money vs. new engine, tranny, soft top ('11 no have spring assist?), and warranty.

And though you said it's not "what's the cheapest you can get in a..." it does all come down to money. If it didn't, you'd have bought exactly what you want by now!

S

BManz 11-12-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu (Post 2979718)
I'm glad somebody picked up on my sarcasm.

My point was that the prices between used and new aren't as close as most people here say, which is usually the first comment to be made.

And though you said it's not "what's the cheapest you can get in a..." it does all come down to money. If it didn't, you'd have bought exactly what you want by now!

S

Yep! LOL I missed the sarcasm. As far as money it was never affordability, it was value and what I saw was $6000 more compared to new only to get the Penta and 5spd, all else being equal option-wise.

I didn't see the value proposition in that alone, so asked about worth in if there was something I overlooked. No rock crawling, no big tires, so yeah, I'd take $6000+ savings and a performance hit for work/teenager use with long-term Penta concerns another factor.

Thanks all for the feedback and if that JK is still there when I go down/over to DC again, I'll probably buy it and drive it back unless I find something else with a good value proposition.


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