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-   -   How many are in favor of Succession? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f6/how-many-are-in-favor-of-succession-199343.html)

dirt dawber 11-13-2012 09:38 PM

How many are in favor of Succession?
 
According to the news today Texas and Louisiana have over the required 25,000 signatures per state on the succession documents to send to the president/congess. And I believe there are another 20 or more states doing this as well including my home state of Alabama. Anybody keeping up with this?

ob269 11-13-2012 09:43 PM

Wow, shows how much I pay attention to the news! I had no idea..

EdJonesJeeper 11-13-2012 09:47 PM

It's a great attention getter but it would never happen.

Lose of military, social security, medicare, government jobs and pensions. It would have twice the economic impact than the prez could ever do.

New York and New Jersey are part of the bunch but they voted blue?

25,000 people is 0.5% of the population of Louisiana. Not exactly the majority.

mckey73 11-13-2012 09:59 PM

Definition of SECESSION

1: withdrawal into privacy or solitude : retirement
2: formal withdrawal from an organization

suc·ces·sion noun \sək-ˈse-shən\
1
a : the order in which or the conditions under which one person after another succeeds to a property, dignity, title, or throne
b : the right of a person or line to succeed
c : the line having such a right

DeepSouthJeeper 11-13-2012 10:16 PM

You'd think I would have heard about this, seeing as I live in Louisiana..

Rolly32 11-13-2012 10:29 PM

Here in Texas we got 90,000+ signatures already.. It's pretty crazy, but I think it's for entertainment purposes only.. Kinda like the elections :thumb:

ed98208 11-13-2012 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckey73 (Post 2993437)
Definition of SECESSION

You beat me to it! It's hard to take a movement seriously when they don't even use the right term for it. :rolleyes:

And what is the reason that they're giving, exactly? That there's an uppity black man in the White House? It's not like Obama has tried to take anyone's guns or religion.

flatsfisher83 11-13-2012 11:41 PM

It's a great statement but it will never happen. Hopefully it will wake some people up.

klkb 11-14-2012 07:10 AM

Texas, from what I understand, is a Republic, and part of their own terms of statehood is that they can secede whenever they want to. The governor has, in the past, not outrightly objected to it. This time around, though, he has said they will remain part of the USA. Our country is already imploding. The fact of almost half of our states wanting out of it just makes it worse.

bbtj 11-14-2012 07:29 AM

With the exception of Texas, when a petition from a state gets to 25,000 signatures, then the White House has to submit a written reply to those that started the petition. It happens every 4 years, regardless of who wins. If you look, you can also find petitions from the other side wanting the president to deport and/or exile those that sign the petitions to secede.

lys327 11-14-2012 08:49 AM

I have been watching this and currently there are 30 plus states involved in the Secession. Two things: 1- there are several states that currently are semi-seperated from the us. one is New Hampshire. Virginia is a commonweatlh. 2- those involved with this are using the correct political procedure for causing a change.

Carlsbad0331 11-14-2012 09:47 AM

I personally think that anyone who wants to secede should be allowed to, and anyone who wants to leave the country entirely and move to a country more suited to their needs should do so immediately.
BUT, they should then be made completely ineligible for federal funding of any kind and/or assistance should a disaster occur or another country attempts to invade. I wonder how Louisiana would fare the next time they are hit with a hurricane, and New York and New Jersey???

harleydragon 11-14-2012 05:42 PM

the spokesman for the group in Texas said basically that Texas had different wants,needs and ideas than Vermont.We are not all the same.We have different values and different ideas as to how we think is best to survive.

commodore_dude 11-14-2012 07:31 PM

Countries in Europe such as Spain and Belgium are in different stages of looking at breaking up. Why should the US, being much larger and more culturally diverse, be any different? It was absolutely the intent of the founders that states be permitted to secede, and I'm pretty sure they'd be surprised we've managed to hold it together with only one internal war to this point.

FreezerJeep 11-14-2012 07:46 PM

Hey we have the same issue with Quebec up here ever so often....I think tho let them go but they are on their own....currency, army, etc...

harleydragon 11-14-2012 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commodore_dude (Post 2996852)
Countries in Europe such as Spain and Belgium are in different stages of looking at breaking up. Why should the US, being much larger and more culturally diverse, be any different? It was absolutely the intent of the founders that states be permitted to secede, and I'm pretty sure they'd be surprised we've managed to hold it together with only one internal war to this point.

I don't see it happening but I am all for it..this election showed that the northeast section of the country and the west coast thinks differently than most of the rest of the country

sonofabeach 11-14-2012 08:16 PM

Key West copycats

ed98208 11-14-2012 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleydragon (Post 2996975)
I don't see it happening but I am all for it..this election showed that the northeast section of the country and the west coast thinks differently than most of the rest of the country

Maybe "most of the rest of the country" by geography, but the popular vote did go blue. So really "most" of the voting citizens were in agreement.

But yes, I think splitting off the American Taliban would be a great idea. Seriously, good riddance. Let them have their religious state. Pretty much anyone that's not white, straight, Christian and male would get shafted, but at its base that's what it's all about anyway - going back to those glory days when women and minorities were under the boot.

klkb 11-15-2012 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreezerJeep (Post 2996924)
Hey we have the same issue with Quebec up here ever so often....I think tho let them go but they are on their own....currency, army, etc...

I think that's their whole point. It's not just on principle alone. The amount of money and resources Texas has, which are now sucked up by the federal government, would remain theirs. They can take care of their own just fine. I think if a state, republic, commonwealth, etc., can look at their income and resources vs. their expenses and think they can do it better on their own, let them. Different states, different needs.

Chris M 11-15-2012 08:50 AM

I posted the info below on another site I visit. It's just my spin and interpretation of history as I've learned it, so take it with a grain of salt. One thing to remember, history is somebody's interpretation of events that happen based upon the facts they can dig up.

For some reason, people have continued to perpetrate Texas secession and it's right. That, as you have mentioned is simply not the case. I'm focusing on Texas here because it generally seems to be the focal point of this issue today.

A quick history lesson for those not in the know, the Civil War was fought over the idea of states rights, among other things. But suffice to say states rights was a center issue. Some might argue slavery as was mentioned in many southern states' declarations of independence. However, politicians of any time period tend to over blow and over emphasize an issue in order to gain support. Just think about Rick Perry in 2009 when Obama was elected.

Some states felt they had the right to ignore federal law (this is the definition of states rights). They also felt they could willingly leave the Union as they had willingly joined the union. So, the Confederate states withdrew. The war happened and with the Union winning, established the idea secession was illegal. Before the former Confederate states could rejoin the Union, they had to pledge to abide by federal laws, as well as creating new state constitutions.

Texas may have gotten the worst end of Reconstruction as there were several constitutions written, but all rejected until the one of 1876 which still governs the state. Because of the Texans desire for as little government interference as possible, the constitution has to be amended often to allow the government to do certain things.

That aside, nowhere does the 1876 constitution allow for Texas secession, nor is there mention of it. The 1876 version trumps all previous versions. People often quote the 1845 constitution from when Texas joined the Union. However, there is nothing in the 1845 model that says anything about secession if dissatisfied. The US took on Texas debt in exchange for massive pieces of land and allowing Texas to join at that time. Also, the 1845 model was no good with the adoption of the 1876 model.

Some people claim Texas can be further divided into four additional states for a total of 5, with the approval of the Texas voters. However, this would also have to be approved by the US Congress, according to Article IV, Section 3 of the US Constitution. But after a cursory glance (cursory because there is so much to sift through so it's possible I've missed something) through the 1876 Constitution the past couple of days, I can find no provisions for sub-dividing the state.

All that said, I think the current secession talk is simply to get the attention of the federal government and let them know they are being watched carefully. If you go and look at the states filling petitions, it wasn't just red states, but also some states Obama carried in the election. I think it just says people are tired of what they feel is an overreaching federal government.

I know there are other thoughts on the issue and other interpretations. So enjoy the discussion.

harleydragon 11-15-2012 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klkb (Post 2998325)
I think that's their whole point. It's not just on principle alone. The amount of money and resources Texas has, which are now sucked up by the federal government, would remain theirs. They can take care of their own just fine. I think if a state, republic, commonwealth, etc., can look at their income and resources vs. their expenses and think they can do it better on their own, let them. Different states, different needs.

yes,their point was that Texas has the 15th largest economy in the world and maintains a balanced budget

Chris M 11-15-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleydragon (Post 2998512)
yes,their point was that Texas has the 15th largest economy in the world and maintains a balanced budget

I'm not proposing not maintaining a balanced budget, but in recent years, that balancing has come at the expense of teachers, police, emergency services, etc.

Just an example, our state just implemented a new standardized test for kids 3-12. From people I've worked with in my school district, they estimate the cost to create ONE question on those tests at about $10,000. That's the cost of bringing in "experts" to create the test, feed them, put them up in a hotel, research, etc. I think that's a poor way to spend money when there is a serious shortfall and you are needing more of the above mentioned professionals. Apparently the state education agency thought the scores were getting too high and they wanted to up the difficulty, so we all got hosed on that. But that's a side point.

Most Texas teachers (can't speak for emergency services here) have not gotten much, if any, raise in the past 5 years. I think I got a 2.5% raise this year and that's the first one I've gotten in a while. The raise was barely enough to keep up with the rising cost of insurance. On top of that, I'm actually bringing home less money than I did 10 years ago.

Sorry to go off on a tangent this morning.

Mr.Bill 11-15-2012 09:10 AM

Maybe we should sell Texas to China for the $1.16 Trillion dollars we owe them?

(Disclaimer: The statement above was for entertainment purposes only and does not reflect the actual views or opinions of Mr. Bill or any other person place or thing that may be the least bit offense to any other person, place or thing so help me Gumby.)

harleydragon 11-15-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris M (Post 2998540)
I'm not proposing not maintaining a balanced budget, but in recent years, that balancing has come at the expense of teachers, police, emergency services, etc.

Just an example, our state just implemented a new standardized test for kids 3-12. From people I've worked with in my school district, they estimate the cost to create ONE question on those tests at about $10,000. That's the cost of bringing in "experts" to create the test, feed them, put them up in a hotel, research, etc. I think that's a poor way to spend money when there is a serious shortfall and you are needing more of the above mentioned professionals. Apparently the state education agency thought the scores were getting too high and they wanted to up the difficulty, so we all got hosed on that. But that's a side point.

Most Texas teachers (can't speak for emergency services here) have not gotten much, if any, raise in the past 5 years. I think I got a 2.5% raise this year and that's the first one I've gotten in a while. The raise was barely enough to keep up with the rising cost of insurance. On top of that, I'm actually bringing home less money than I did 10 years ago.

Sorry to go off on a tangent this morning.

yes,2 of my daughters and 1 of my son in laws are teachers here in georgia and you can bet they are not getting rich.they tell me that obamacare is going to cut their take home pay by about $100 each per month

harleydragon 11-15-2012 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Bill (Post 2998570)
Maybe we should sell Texas to China for the $1.16 Trillion dollars we owe them?

(Disclaimer: The statement above was for entertainment purposes only and does not reflect the actual views or opinions of Mr. Bill or any other person place or thing that may be the least bit offense to any other person, place or thing so help me Gumby.)

sell Hawaii

Redsand 11-15-2012 09:26 AM

Na, sell California, Chicago,

Chris M 11-15-2012 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Bill (Post 2998570)
Maybe we should sell Texas to China for the $1.16 Trillion dollars we owe them?

No, no, no!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redsand (Post 2998621)
Na, sell California, Chicago,


Yes, yes, yes!!!!

No offense to my fellow Jeepers who are in the above mentioned locations. I'm sure most of you are not fans of the government in your area. But if you are, props to you. We are all Americans and get the opportunity to vote for what you want, and speak your mind. That's what makes us great, despite the BS.

:wavey::wavey::wavey::wavey:

harleydragon 11-15-2012 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redsand (Post 2998621)
Na, sell California, Chicago,

we could never be that lucky

whetstone 11-15-2012 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed98208 (Post 2997727)
Maybe "most of the rest of the country" by geography, but the popular vote did go blue. So really "most" of the voting citizens were in agreement.

But yes, I think splitting off the American Taliban would be a great idea. Seriously, good riddance. Let them have their religious state. Pretty much anyone that's not white, straight, Christian and male would get shafted, but at its base that's what it's all about anyway - going back to those glory days when women and minorities were under the boot.

You have zero idea what you're talking about. Disliking an overreaching federal government, despite what Bill Maher says, does not make one racist, sexist, bigot, etc...

CapnRich22 11-15-2012 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whetstone (Post 2998837)
You have zero idea what you're talking about. Disliking an overreaching federal government, despite what Bill Maher says, does not make one racist, sexist, bigot, etc...

^^ THIS... I think all sides should look at the gov't and realize it is not FOR the people or BY the people anymore...


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