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-   -   Clutch help before I burn my TJ to the ground (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/clutch-help-before-i-burn-my-tj-to-the-ground-202835.html)

kodiakjoe1978 12-01-2012 04:21 PM

Ok, I just went and picked up my TJ from dads shop and the clutch is still slipping. We just got the tranny back into it after pulling it out because the clutch was slipping. When we pulled it out the clutch looked brand new, no burn marks or any damage at all. I didn't have a choice in the clutch when we installed the new motor dad had it rebuilt before I knew it I was planning on just buying a new one but he did that on his own. He's had his rebuilt before and never had a problem with it, it was in a ford though. I had a new synchronize installed in the tranny while it was out by Aamco. While it was down there I asked them why it would be slipping and all they could guess was the flywheel might need to be shimed. I'm at my wits end with it. The only thing left to do is save up and buy another new one. Any help or advise everyone has told me just get a Luk and be done with it but if I buy another one and it does the same thing I'm gonna blow a gasket.

jeep-creep 12-01-2012 04:38 PM

Does it chatter at all?

Derp 12-01-2012 04:39 PM

LUK clutch and the flywheels on tj's are extremly picky.

"Que jerry bransford" lol

kodiakjoe1978 12-01-2012 04:45 PM

It doesn't chatter at all no noises at all. It's a rebuilt factory not a Luk.

ohioviper 12-01-2012 05:11 PM

If I was to go through the trouble of pulling trans you can bet there would be a new clutch ,throw out bearing and all hardware and a freshly turned flywheel. Man thats a lot of work to not do right.Sorry your having bad luck.

Derp 12-01-2012 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohioviper
If I was to go through the trouble of pulling trans you can bet there would be a new clutch ,throw out bearing and all hardware and a freshly turned flywheel. Man thats a lot of work to not do right.Sorry your having bad luck.

x2

kodiakjoe1978 12-01-2012 07:10 PM

Yeah I understand that, I didn't have a chance to dad had that done before I had a choice and the motor was already in by the time he had told me.

harleydragon 12-01-2012 07:20 PM

if clutch and pressure plate were new and the throw out bearing was completely releasing the pressure plate,then that leaves nothing but the flywheel

Rubicondon53 12-01-2012 08:57 PM

I don't understand the inclination to blame the flywheel. I see that a lot on these forums.. I've been driving since 1970, everything from pick ups, to old beaters, to really nice euro sedans, and of course, jeeps.. I've only ever owned 1 automatic, the rest were stick shifts. I've replaced many a clutch, and many thro out bearings, etc etc, I have never ever, not once, ever had to replace, or resurface a flywheel.. Are the jeep flywheels that crappy from the factory? Not possible.. My first inclination would be to advise the o p that the clutch has become contaminated with a drop of oil, or a small dab of grease. It doesn't take much for slippage to occur.. How bad does it slip? Will it pull up a hill in 2nd or 3rd without slipping? Or is it slipping all the time ? Detailed info is necessary to diagnose anything, but I certainly would not be concerned with resurfacing the fly wheel. That's probably the worst thing to do ..

Rubicondon53 12-01-2012 09:03 PM

That slippage may also be occurring because of an oil leak up above, that is slowly dripping down through and onto the clutch assembly or flywheel..

harleydragon 12-01-2012 09:19 PM

from what I understand jeep flywheels are not flat and resurfacing is not recommended..i read that on posts on this site..it was recommended to replace them..I have had to replace a few in about those same number of years that you mentioned from either being warped or having a hot spot,but they were not on jeeps..oil is a possibility but from other posts I have read the jeep flywheel does often need replacing

kodiakjoe1978 12-01-2012 10:17 PM

Rubi, by slippage if I take off very easy it will pull but when I give it a lot of gas(no not floor boarding it) it slips enough that I wouldn't be able to stay at the same speed going uphill. Not even a big hill at all on the interstate. I checked and it slips in 1-5 gear the same way. When I feel it slip the tach jumps from 2k to 3-3.5k almost instantly. It's an 03 with about 51k on it. I know it was abused before I bought it because of all the stuff I've replaced on it. Also I know there's no oil leaking its a brand new motor that's not even got 500 miles on it yet. Plus we checked the rear main and around the back of the head when it was out to make sure it wasn't leaking.

Slater451 12-01-2012 10:56 PM

Have you bled the clutch there could be air on the system and no allowing it to engage properly...

C.L. 12-01-2012 11:20 PM

You mentioned that the clutch plate was replaced sort of when you weren't looking...

1.) Are you positive it was the same diameter and thickness as stock? It is theoretically possible to get a plate installed where the connection points line up, but the friction zone does not.
2.) Were the pressure plate and throwout bearing replaced at the same time? If the plate has broken fingers, or the throwout bearing is sticking on the shaft, the clutch plate may not be making solid contact with your flywheel.
3.) How does the clutch pedal feel? Where in its travel does the Jeep start to pull? Right off the floor or not until it is almost all the way up?


One last diagnostic i can think of, but it won't be pretty. Use at your own risk, etc, etc...

Put a spare 20A fuse in the "transmission override" slot, i think it's slot #20. This will let you start the Jeep without pressing the clutch in. Find yourself a large empty parking lot or stretch of unused road and:

1.) Put the transmission in first gear, then start it without touching the clutch. It will probably buck some until it catches and you take off. Drag the brakes a little and give it enough gas to make the clutch slip. Turn the key off to stop.
2.) Unbolt the slave cylinder from your transmission and repeat the test. You may want to slap a piece of duct tape over the hole to prevent any little stones from getting kicked up into it, and to minimize splashing of the transmission oil; i'm not sure if that's baffled or not.

If it slips the same in test #2, the problem is with the friction zone area around the pressure plate or throwout bearing area. If it doesn't slip in test #2, the problem is in your hydraulics. Either a jammed master/slave cylinder, or a clog in the fluid return path.

Good Luck!

kodiakjoe1978 12-02-2012 04:35 AM

I'm not sure if it was bleed at all the pedal feels better than it did when we first had to pull the motor out. I'm not sure if it had any broken fingers on it at all, dad had said it looked worn so that's why he had it rebuilt, I know he replaced the throw out bearing cause he also had to replace something else with it I'm not sure what he told me it was right now I'd have to get with him and see. Guys thanks for all the help I'm gonna try out these suggestions and see what happens I'll keep ya'll posted as soon as I find out.

Black Magic Brakes 12-02-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slater451 (Post 3056766)
Have you bled the clutch there could be air on the system and no allowing it to engage properly...

The clutch slave and master don't work that way. If there was air in the system, it would not allow total disengagement. The default with the clutch slave removed is full engagement of the pressure plate against the clutch disc and then flywheel.

If I was dealing with a slipping clutch in a TJ, I'd make sure I had the right clutch disc and pressure plate first. Then I would make sure no one machined too much off the flywheel that should not have been machined to begin with.

I'd also do the test with the starter to make sure the clutch slave is out of the equation and the clutch fork is allowing total disengagement.

Derp 12-02-2012 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes

The clutch slave and master don't work that way. If there was air in the system, it would not allow total disengagement. The default with the clutch slave removed is full engagement of the pressure plate against the clutch disc and then flywheel.

If I was dealing with a slipping clutch in a TJ, I'd make sure I had the right clutch disc and pressure plate first. Then I would make sure no one machined too much off the flywheel that should not have been machined to begin with.

I'd also do the test with the starter to make sure the clutch slave is out of the equation and the clutch fork is allowing total disengagement.

Blaine you're quite the master.

kodiakjoe1978 12-02-2012 09:21 PM

Ok, I spoke to the old man to figure out a couple things. Basically its got a new clutch(rebuilt), pressure plate(rebuilt, no missing or broken fingers), throw out bearing, slave cylinder, and had the flywheel resurfaced. He also said something was repaired on the shaft but I forgot exactly what he said it was.

Black Magic Brakes 12-02-2012 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kodiakjoe1978 (Post 3059902)
Ok, I spoke to the old man to figure out a couple things. Basically its got a new clutch(rebuilt), pressure plate(rebuilt, no missing or broken fingers), throw out bearing, slave cylinder, and had the flywheel resurfaced. He also said something was repaired on the shaft but I forgot exactly what he said it was.


That part bothers me a bit. The throw-out bearing rides on a sleeve that is around the input shaft. If it is not correct, it is possible that the throw-out bearing is not being allowed to travel back completely and is still holding the fingers on the pressure plate slightly compressed which could cause the slippage you are experiencing.

Do the starter test outlined above that has you start it in gear with the clutch slave cylinder removed, (very easy to do, just two bolts to deal with) and see what happens.

kodiakjoe1978 12-02-2012 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes (Post 3059930)

That part bothers me a bit. The throw-out bearing rides on a sleeve that is around the input shaft. If it is not correct, it is possible that the throw-out bearing is not being allowed to travel back completely and is still holding the fingers on the pressure plate slightly compressed which could cause the slippage you are experiencing.

Do the starter test outlined above that has you start it in gear with the clutch slave cylinder removed, (very easy to do, just two bolts to deal with) and see what happens.

Will, do. I've gotta work the next 4 days straight so it'll be later this week before I'll have time to.


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