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-   -   Minimal traction and flex mods???? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f218/minimal-traction-and-flex-mods-208184.html)

OregonPlinker 12-29-2012 08:50 PM

Minimal traction and flex mods????
 
Next year Im planning a soa/axle swap... For now Im thinking I will ditch the sway and trac bars and install 1 1/4" body lift, 1 1/4" boomerang shackles and a spartan locker in the rear. I already have yukon axles in the rearend.

From what Ive read so far I can do these mods without needing sye or even brake lines? Supposedly I can just drop the radiator with the body lift and keep everything else how it is? Am I wrong in this assumption? What have I missed? Any suggestions people might have would be greatly appreciated and thank you for reading and lending your expertise!

myquite 12-29-2012 09:11 PM

I would only disco those sway bars when you're offroad. Maybe get or make some quick-disconnects for them. Sway bars are pretty nice to have while driving on the road. YJ's don't really need track bars, ditch them.

Hanksride 12-29-2012 10:50 PM

YJ's don't need trac bars or sway bars. Mine have been in the trash for 4 years, with 5" lift and 33's. this is also my DD and drives and rides perfectly well. I took it on a 3500 mile road trip with my daughter a couple years ago from Ark to Las Vegas and back through Utah, MOAB and Colorado with no problems. My wife drives it almost daily with no issues. YJ's don't need either one.

Xpress 12-29-2012 11:27 PM

Our Jeeps ABSOLUTELY need a swaybar, you just do NOT know when someone will cut you off, especially with the generation of drivers that are beginning to take to the roads nowadays. It's not guaranteeing you won't flip your Jeep, it's just giving you a better chance of keeping all 4 on the ground incase of emergency, and that's a proven fact.. This was stolen from another forum, but it shows just what can happen to even a stock Jeep if someone decides they need to be exactly where you are at a moments notice:

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_4238.jpg

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_5466.jpg

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_5467.jpg

Someone cut him off, which in turn caused him to roll it 3 times before coming to a stop.

The Track Bars however, our YJ's just don't need. The swaybar does more than a good enough job of keeping the body parallel to the ground, the Track Bars just bind up everything, and can actually cause items to break and wear out prematurely with Leaf Springs if you offroad at all.

OregonPlinker 12-29-2012 11:38 PM

Hm. Now that Im looking at this thing and comparing it to my old wrangler and other pics online Im thinking it has some springs already on it. Im gonna get under it tomorrow and see if I can find some markings on them. It clears the 31's nicely but doesnt flex very well. I put the driver front on a stump last night and the driver rear came off the ground while the front still had inches before it was stuffed. The passenger rear was on the stuffed on the stopper. I think I got more flex out of my old stock yj.. All I did to it was flat fenders and scrapped the sway and track bars. Gonna get busy on it tomorrow and see wtf.

OregonPlinker 12-29-2012 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpress (Post 3158496)
Our Jeeps ABSOLUTELY need a swaybar, you just do NOT know when someone will cut you off, especially with the generation of drivers that are beginning to take to the roads nowadays. It's not guaranteeing you won't flip your Jeep, it's just giving you a better chance of keeping all 4 on the ground incase of emergency, and that's a proven fact.. This was stolen from another forum, but it shows just what can happen to even a stock Jeep if someone decides they need to be exactly where you are at a moments notice:

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_4238.jpg

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_5466.jpg

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_5467.jpg

Someone cut him off, which in turn caused him to roll it 3 times before coming to a stop.

The Track Bars however, our YJ's just don't need. The swaybar does more than a good enough job of keeping the body parallel to the ground, the Track Bars just bind up everything, and can actually cause items to break and wear out prematurely with Leaf Springs if you offroad at all.

WOW. That WAS a nice jeep. Hope that guy was alright! Maybe I will go with some discos...

Xpress 12-29-2012 11:57 PM

It sure doesn't hurt to have them...

The Jeeper in question walked away with nothing but a few scratches, even EMS was surprised. The rollbars in those Jeeps are pretty robust..

OregonPlinker 12-30-2012 12:03 AM

Man I guess. I wonder how the factory yj roll bars would have held up...

1990JEEPYJ 12-30-2012 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myquite (Post 3157864)
I would only disco those sway bars when you're offroad. Maybe get or make some quick-disconnects for them. Sway bars are pretty nice to have while driving on the road. YJ's don't really need track bars, ditch them.


They dont really need swaybars either. Leafsprings keep her pretty stable and you shouldn't be going fast enough in a jeep to need either swaybar or trackbar.

Hanksride 12-30-2012 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpress (Post 3158496)
Our Jeeps ABSOLUTELY need a swaybar, you just do NOT know when someone will cut you off, especially with the generation of drivers that are beginning to take to the roads nowadays. It's not guaranteeing you won't flip your Jeep, it's just giving you a better chance of keeping all 4 on the ground incase of emergency, and that's a proven fact.. This was stolen from another forum, but it shows just what can happen to even a stock Jeep if someone decides they need to be exactly where you are at a moments notice:

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_4238.jpg

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_5466.jpg

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_5467.jpg

Someone cut him off, which in turn caused him to roll it 3 times before coming to a stop.

The Track Bars however, our YJ's just don't need. The swaybar does more than a good enough job of keeping the body parallel to the ground, the Track Bars just bind up everything, and can actually cause items to break and wear out prematurely with Leaf Springs if you offroad at all.

I bet that thing had sway bars and trac bars on it and still looks like a wreck. The trac bars and sway bars aren't going to save you in a crisis. That is a coil sprung jeep (unlike the YJ's) total different animal. My daughter has a TJ and I would not take either one off of it for a second due to the coil springs. My YJ handles better with out the bars than her TJ does with them. If you think it won't work then you have not tried it!

Ianbeaulieu 12-30-2012 02:59 AM

I would keep sway bars on or get quick discos, as far as yall now he could have been going down a high at about 60 or 70 and then some ass cut him off and slammed on the brakes causing him to swerve and wreck, alittle more flex isnt worth your life or your Jeep guys

1990JEEPYJ 12-30-2012 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianbeaulieu (Post 3158851)
I would keep sway bars on or get quick discos, as far as yall now he could have been going down a high at about 60 or 70 and then some ass cut him off and slammed on the brakes causing him to swerve and wreck, alittle more flex isnt worth your life or your Jeep guys

Yeah but there is a huge difference in stability of coils vs. Leafs.

Ianbeaulieu 12-30-2012 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1990JEEPYJ (Post 3158856)

Yeah but there is a huge difference in stability of coils vs. Leafs.

I agree, but its still the same principle

darkproximity 12-30-2012 03:35 AM

Every time I drive on the freeway my Jeep spontaneously combusts due to lack of sway bars

1990JEEPYJ 12-30-2012 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkproximity (Post 3158863)
Every time I drive on the freeway my Jeep spontaneously combusts due to lack of sway bars

Really? And here I am thinking I am a unique butterfly.

darkproximity 12-30-2012 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1990JEEPYJ (Post 3158866)

Really? And here I am thinking I am a unique butterfly.

You have that same problem too? Jeep just goes BOOM! out of nowhere?

1990JEEPYJ 12-30-2012 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkproximity (Post 3158868)

You have that same problem too? Jeep just goes BOOM! out of nowhere?

Yeah! Any time above 25 mph. It's those darn sway bars and track bars. Should have never sold them.

djwrangler 12-30-2012 08:11 AM

if you mostly drive on the streets at high sleds speeds i'd recommend disconnects for the swaybar.

With that said, ive been running no swaybar on my yj for 6 months and have no problem on the highway. I swerved pretty hard avoiding a blown big rig tire at about 70mph. a swaybar would have certainly helped but I didn't roll or lose control.

I also noticed better handling when I switched to my wider wheels and tires compared to stock with no swaybar.

disconnects are the best of both worlds.

OregonPlinker 12-30-2012 08:23 AM

I know my stock YJ I had a few years ago handled fine with no sway or track bars. I think they are still in my shop somewhere. I ran that thing pretty hard a few times on back roads. Doubling the suggested speed on 35-45 mph corners... I normally take it real easy but if somebody wants to ride my bumper and act like a jerk I will surely return the favor...lol. Im sure if you jerked it one way and then the other while the springs are loaded you could flip a lot of rigs. My cousin flipped an escort gt on gravel swerving to miss a dog, over correcting and going a little too fast. I was always told you dont swerve unless its well anticipated. If all you have time to do is react you only hit the brakes. Ive had a few close calls and at freeway speeds just a half second on the brakes hard is plenty of time to get out of someones way. Whether you get rearended or not is another story...

SHAWN3R 12-30-2012 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OregonPlinker (Post 3157740)
Next year Im planning a soa/axle swap... For now Im thinking I will ditch the sway and trac bars and install 1 1/4" body lift, 1 1/4" boomerang shackles and a spartan locker in the rear. I already have yukon axles in the rearend.

From what Ive read so far I can do these mods without needing sye or even brake lines? Supposedly I can just drop the radiator with the body lift and keep everything else how it is? Am I wrong in this assumption? What have I missed? Any suggestions people might have would be greatly appreciated and thank you for reading and lending your expertise!

A body lift dosnt effect drive line angles if you drop the t-case. If you dont drop it spend the extra $100 and do a motor mount lift. That will help with the drive line angles. If they do change you can put shims on the spring perch to get the angles better. You will not need a sye

Xpress 12-30-2012 09:22 AM

Leaf springs are NOT more stable than coil springs, they can flex just as much (don't believe me? Check out some of the SOA conversions around here and other forums). Disconnect the swaybar on either a coil sprung Jeep or a Leaf Sprung Jeep and both should flex the same when you rock them side to side. If they don't then your springs haven't been worn in yet.

My Jeep is sitting on stock leafs and they flex relatively easily. A buddies Jeep sitting on brand new RE leafs flexes just as easily. My dads truck sitting on OME leafs (1984 4Runner) that rarely sees dirt flexes just as much as my Jeep, if not more, so I know it's not my leafs being worn out, and they are not sagging. Besides, the above comparison is VALID because the Jeep was using his swaybar. All a swaybar does is keeps the body parallel to the axle. Same exact concept behind a YJ.

Also I call bull**** to anyone who says their Jeep can corner at 2x the posted speed limits around corners without any body roll, that's just flat out arrogance. Maybe you don't know what body roll is then, but I'm not believing it for one moment. The whole point behind removing your swaybar is to gain MORE flex in the front end- what do you think is going to happen in a corner? Obviously you are going to flex more, and the centrifugal forces acting upon the body are going to pull it outward.

Norcal_Chris 12-30-2012 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpress (Post 3159290)
Leaf springs are NOT more stable than coil springs, they can flex just as much (don't believe me? .



Im sorry... but that COULD NOT be furthur from the truth. It is a well known fact that leafs have way more lateral stability and predictability than coils. Also they are less prone to unload on sidehills. Please dont spread false information.

1990JEEPYJ 12-30-2012 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norcal_Chris (Post 3159331)

Im sorry... but that COULD NOT be furthur from the truth. It is a well known fact that leafs have way more lateral stability and predictability than coils. Also they are less prone to unload on sidehills. Please dont spread false information.

This guy right here.

darkproximity 12-30-2012 09:57 AM

Leafs resist in multiple directions.. coils resist in one...

That being said leaf springs are known by the state of California to cause cancer. So in the end if you don't die from spontaneous combustion or flipping and rolling your Jeep because a cat ran out in front of you, the cancer will end up getting you

Ianbeaulieu 12-30-2012 09:57 AM

He is correct, have yall ever seen a coil spring break free from a vehicle? Hell rains down

Nas.a7x 12-30-2012 10:52 AM

O say that those who choose to drive on the streets and especially highways without a sway bar to have huge signs on their Jeeps so the rest of us can SAFELY STEER clear of the awaiting danger of those who think the sway bar is unnecessary. I personally like to have all 4 tires on the ground when they are supposed to be.....

Hanksride 12-30-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpress (Post 3159290)
Leaf springs are NOT more stable than coil springs, they can flex just as much (don't believe me? Check out some of the SOA conversions around here and other forums). Disconnect the swaybar on either a coil sprung Jeep or a Leaf Sprung Jeep and both should flex the same when you rock them side to side. If they don't then your springs haven't been worn in yet.

Stability and flexing are not the same issue. And there is so much more that goes into whether a jeep flexes properly or not than just what type of spring (leaf or coil) it has on it. This statement only proves your limited knowledge of how the geometry of jeeps actually work.

My Jeep is sitting on stock leafs and they flex relatively easily. A buddies Jeep sitting on brand new RE leafs flexes just as easily. My dads truck sitting on OME leafs (1984 4Runner) that rarely sees dirt flexes just as much as my Jeep, if not more, so I know it's not my leafs being worn out, and they are not sagging. Besides, the above comparison is VALID because the Jeep was using his swaybar. All a swaybar does is keeps the body parallel to the axle. Same exact concept behind a YJ.

Try tightening or loosening your shackle bolts to different torque specs and run your same test you just spoke of. You will have entirely different responses from your YJ.

Also I call bull**** to anyone who says their Jeep can corner at 2x the posted speed limits around corners without any body roll, that's just flat out arrogance. Maybe you don't know what body roll is then, but I'm not believing it for one moment. The whole point behind removing your swaybar is to gain MORE flex in the front end- what do you think is going to happen in a corner? Obviously you are going to flex more, and the centrifugal forces acting upon the body are going to pull it outward.

I don't know about cornering at 2x the speed limit, I would think that would have to take into account the rode conditions, whether or not the corner was actually rated correctly to begin with, all my tie-rods, ball joints, tire condition, steering components etc were in the right working order. I suppose there is more to compare here than rather or not I have sway bars and track bars installed as to how fast I could take a corner in my jeep. I will say that mine corners better now without the sway bars and track bars than when it did when I bought the jeep with stock springs and everything installed. When I drove it home, it scared me to death to get 30 miles to the house.

Check the thread out below, it is copied from JeepForum and has been running this same argument for years back and forth. If you can't learn about track and sway bars from this then I don't where you can get anymore info.

One option is to take them all off, drive the jeep for about a week and then you decide if you want them back on there. It is obvious that a lot of people don't use them so I don't think anything would happen in a week.


I personally like post number 60, that is where my bars went and then they went to the local scrap yard about 2 years ago.

Front track and sway bar removal with pics (questions merged here as well) - JeepForum.com

OP - It is your choice, don't let myself or anyone else give you bad advice. Read their experiences and take from it what you will. This is probably the most debated subject I have ever seen when it comes to YJ's but in the end each individual has to make their decision. I just hate it when people can't compare apples to apples. :punk:

darkproximity 12-30-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nas.a7x (Post 3159612)
O say that those who choose to drive on the streets and especially highways without a sway bar to have huge signs on their Jeeps so the rest of us can SAFELY STEER clear of the awaiting danger of those who think the sway bar is unnecessary. I personally like to have all 4 tires on the ground when they are supposed to be.....

I've never not had all four tires on the ground on road.. never had an accident, I've had to avoid idiots quite often on the freeway.. I also have Detroit lockers and drive on show and ice, which apparently is a deadly combination too if you believe the hype of the internet..

Hanksride 12-30-2012 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nas.a7x (Post 3159612)
O say that those who choose to drive on the streets and especially highways without a sway bar to have huge signs on their Jeeps so the rest of us can SAFELY STEER clear of the awaiting danger of those who think the sway bar is unnecessary. I personally like to have all 4 tires on the ground when they are supposed to be.....

Oh yeah, I remember now, it is jeeps that kill people, not people killing people!!

Speedy4x4 12-30-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkproximity (Post 3159704)
I've never not had all four tires on the ground on road.. never had an accident, I've had to avoid idiots quite often on the freeway.. I also have Detroit lockers and drive on show and ice, which apparently is a deadly combination too if you believe the hype of the internet..

YES it is called defensive driving.

Most people need sway bars. Sorry. But not all.
Some of us have drove CJ's even Lifted CJ's :dance:

Just keep an eye all around you and no one will ever sneak up on you and cut you off ;)

Never trust that other drivers know how to drive :punk:

Most wrecks are caused by wrong reactions to an event (Say someone cutting you off then you nailing the brakes and cranking the wheel. Result of that in a jeep is a roll over. (sway bar or not) )

I'm not wanting every Joe to go remove their sway bars just saying don't hate on those who do.

That being said mine are still on.
I have a lot of curvy roads on my way to work and like to take them a bit fast


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