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-   -   So I have a winch. Now I need a few snatch blocks. (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/so-i-have-a-winch-now-i-need-a-few-snatch-blocks-208713.html)

reade 01-01-2013 09:16 AM

So I have a winch. Now I need a few snatch blocks.
 
After hashing it out over a winch I bit the bullet and went Warn. Now I see I should get a few snatch blocks and straps to carry as well for self recovery so,

tell me about them, are the eBay bargain sb's really a bargain or should I bite the bullet again?

Don't hesitate to use lots of adjectives in your response as there might be others here who need the info as well. If "buy the best" is all you got, fine but why you say that could be of possible interest. :)

JPi1 01-01-2013 09:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)
You needs couple of D rings, 3/4, a tree saver strap, bubba rope makes a good one, a recovery strap, and a snatch block. I like and use this ARB unit:

sakicnut 01-01-2013 09:31 AM

I know it's kinda expensive but I'll be getting this one when i get the money.
ARB RK9US - ARB Premium Recovery Kit - Quadratec
Your getting everything you pretty much need from a company that has great reviews.
Their are a few more kits on Quadratec also.
Here is one to match your winch Warn
WARN 88900 - Warn Medium Duty Winch Accessory Kit - Quadratec
They are basically the brand name when it comes to winching.
Smittybilt,rugged ridge, and milemarker also make kits.

WatchThis! 01-01-2013 10:13 AM

I use rugged ridge ones that I got on Ebay cheap, they are light and have held up to every thing I have put them through. I dont see the point in spending 100 a block when you can do it for 30. And yes I run my synthetic line threw them all the time.

reade 01-01-2013 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3167806)
I use rugged ridge ones that I got on Ebay cheap, they are light and have held up to every thing I have put them through. I dont see the point in spending 100 a block when you can do it for 30. And yes I run my synthetic line threw them all the time.

Ah! Adjectives. :thumb:

JPi1 01-01-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis!
I use rugged ridge ones that I got on Ebay cheap, they are light and have held up to every thing I have put them through. I dont see the point in spending 100 a block when you can do it for 30. And yes I run my synthetic line threw them all the time.

No, those aren't necessary, but neither is a $50,000 jeep when you can buy a YJ for $3000, they do the same thing, right?

WatchThis! 01-01-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPi1 (Post 3167837)

No, those aren't necessary, but neither is a $50,000 jeep when you can buy a YJ for $3000, they do the same thing, right?

Good point, even though a stock yj and a stock jk are worlds apart. I have wheeled them both.
And I wheel a Jk that I have allmost 70k in and I still wont spend the money on high dollar recovery equipment just so I can say I have it.

3JKs1H1 01-01-2013 10:31 AM

I have a few of these, used them for years. Simple and strong. About $40


11235 11 9" Winch Snatch Block Pulley 30 000lb Rugged Ridge Heavy Duty Universal | eBay

reade 01-01-2013 10:33 AM

JPi1, can you tell me about your rig? What winch, wire or synthetic? Have you used the ARB long?

Me, I have synthetic and I am concerned about ruining it with a poor snatch block but I'm still not sure if there is really a difference in the $30.00 and the $100.00 ones. I think I need to go somewhere and hold each to see for myself?

reade 01-01-2013 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3JKs1H1 (Post 3167869)
I have a few of these, used them for years. Simple and strong. About $40


11235 11 9" Winch Snatch Block Pulley 30 000lb Rugged Ridge Heavy Duty Universal | eBay

I can see merit in buying a 30,000 lbs one as opposed to a 10,000. That's got to be a good thing.

JPi1 01-01-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis!

Good point, even though a stock yj and a stock jk are worlds apart. I have wheeled them both.
And I wheel a Jk that I have allmost 70k in and I still wont spend the money on high dollar recovery equipment just so I can say I have it.

To each his own, I understand. After spending many years in the vehicle recovery business, like cars and trucks over the side of the highway 500 feet down, I learned to use the best I can get my hands on. I've seen even the good stuff fail.

WatchThis! 01-01-2013 10:47 AM

This is true. I work with rigging at work all the time I have no dought that what I use is up to the job. If I had to use it day in and day out I would think about geting heaver better built equipment.

JPi1 01-01-2013 10:50 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by reade
JPi1, can you tell me about your rig? What winch, wire or synthetic? Have you used the ARB long?

Me, I have synthetic and I am concerned about ruining it with a poor snatch block but I'm still not sure if there is really a difference in the $30.00 and the $100.00 ones. I think I need to go somewhere and hold each to see for myself?

I use a Warn 9.5ti, wire rope. I bought the ARB snatch block after a incident where no one had one at all, I just seem to buy overkill stuff like that. When you need a piece of recovery equipment, $100 isn't much.

cavsvet74 01-01-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reade (Post 3167895)
I can see merit in buying a 30,000 lbs one as opposed to a 10,000. That's got to be a good thing.

Absolutely a good thing. Keep in mind, when you use a snatch block to double the line back to the Jeep, you double the pulling force. A 9000# winch becomes a 18000# winch. 9000# of force gets be applied to each leg of the winch line. The snatch block holds one end of each leg. Therefore the snatch block needs to be rated for the extra load.

(if I'm way off on this, please feel free to correct me.:thumb:)

reade 01-01-2013 10:52 AM

JPi1, by the way, that rig is awesome. Yeah $100.00 would be cheap if you had to call out help. What do you like about the ARB design compared to the stamped steel ones?

I intend on buying three blocks, that's why I'm hoping to find a "cheaper" solution. Maybe a "good" one and a couple of $30.00 ones would do?

cavsvet74 01-01-2013 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPi1 (Post 3167918)
I learned to use the best I can get my hands on. I've seen even the good stuff fail.

Valid point. Working in the trades, you learn quickly that it doesn't pay to buy cheap tools.

That said, there is a difference in buying cheap and buying inexpensive.

Michigunman 01-01-2013 11:03 AM

While on the topic of winching, something I have been thinking about. We always hear about don't wheel alone and how you can use your Buddie's vehicle as an anchor point. I struggle with this. You have two vehicles of relatively the same weight. One is stuck in mud, hung on a rock, whatever. The other is sitting on flat ground, that may even be slippery. Seems the anchor vehicle is going to be dragged to the stuck vehicle. What am I missing? If there is a tree or something available to anchor the other Jeep that is a different story.

OP, hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but figured I would ask here since it's an active winching thread.

WatchThis! 01-01-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reade (Post 3167941)

I intend on buying three blocks, that's why I'm hoping to find a "cheaper" solution. Maybe a "good" one and a couple of $30.00 ones would do?

That would work out great probably. I use recovery equipment on a regular basis on the trails and have seen just about every make and price range of blocks used. Thats why I use what I use along with an assortment of straps that I allways bring along. The only proble I have had so far is that I had to smooth out one of my RR ones after running someones steal line threw it becouse it put a lot of groves in it.

Whatever you do be sure you get good straps not the cheap Harbor Freigh ones if you plan on using them often. I guess they would be ok if you only used them once a year or so.

reade 01-01-2013 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michigunman (Post 3167977)
While on the topic of winching, something I have been thinking about. We always hear about don't wheel alone and how you can use your Buddie's vehicle as an anchor point. I struggle with this. You have two vehicles of relatively the same weight. One is stuck in mud, hung on a rock, whatever. The other is sitting on flat ground, that may even be slippery. Seems the anchor vehicle is going to be dragged to the stuck vehicle. What am I missing? If there is a tree or something available to anchor the other Jeep that is a different story.

OP, hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but figured I would ask here since it's an active winching thread.

No problem with me, I'd rather "waste" a few words and possibly learn something now than not and find myself in a bind later.

WatchThis! 01-01-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michigunman (Post 3167977)
While on the topic of winching, something I have been thinking about. We always hear about don't wheel alone and how you can use your Buddie's vehicle as an anchor point. I struggle with this. You have two vehicles of relatively the same weight. One is stuck in mud, hung on a rock, whatever. The other is sitting on flat ground, that may even be slippery. Seems the anchor vehicle is going to be dragged to the stuck vehicle. What am I missing? If there is a tree or something available to anchor the other Jeep that is a different story.

OP, hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but figured I would ask here since it's an active winching thread.

A little FYI. If you hold on the brakes and winch you can get way more pull then if you had a strap and tried to pull someone with your tires. Sometimes you whill drag the other vehicles twards you and they have to be anchored down, but not allways. It helps also to find a rut or something to park the anchor vehicle in or even better sideways and in a rut as long as you are not going to blow a bead on the anchor vehicles tire. I had 3 jeeps tied to mine one time and my snached off M8000 ended up draging all them down hill to me. Had to tie two of them to trees. You learn to get real creative when doing things like this

sneck 01-01-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavsvet74 (Post 3167938)
Absolutely a good thing. Keep in mind, when you use a snatch block to double the line back to the Jeep, you double the pulling force. A 9000# winch becomes a 18000# winch. 9000# of force gets be applied to each leg of the winch line. The snatch block holds one end of each leg. Therefore the snatch block needs to be rated for the extra load.

(if I'm way off on this, please feel free to correct me.:thumb:)

yeah this is what im trying to figure out myself, if the pulleys offer a mechanical advantage, do you just assume each pulley should be rated double what the winch is rated for? same thing with the straps you use?

calvarycoffee 01-01-2013 11:48 AM

:popcorn:

WatchThis! 01-01-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneck (Post 3168051)

yeah this is what im trying to figure out myself, if the pulleys offer a mechanical advantage, do you just assume each pulley should be rated double what the winch is rated for? same thing with the straps you use?

Good question. I wondered this myself. Thats why I went with a 30lb blocks. Maby someone with the knowledge will weigh in. But I think I remember from a rigging class that I went to a long time ago that the load on the block/ strap will be the same as what the winch is pulling in a single line pull. But I might be wrong on this.

BeyondYourFrontDoor 01-01-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michigunman (Post 3167977)
While on the topic of winching, something I have been thinking about. We always hear about don't wheel alone and how you can use your Buddie's vehicle as an anchor point. I struggle with this. You have two vehicles of relatively the same weight. One is stuck in mud, hung on a rock, whatever. The other is sitting on flat ground, that may even be slippery. Seems the anchor vehicle is going to be dragged to the stuck vehicle. What am I missing? If there is a tree or something available to anchor the other Jeep that is a different story.

OP, hope this isn't too much of a hijack, but figured I would ask here since it's an active winching thread.

Often, the vehicle that is 'stuck' really isn't that stuck at all... it is at some mechanical disadvantage and just needs to get help moving. You can't cheat physics... if the stuck vehicle has more friction holding it than your rescue vehicle, it isn't moving and your recovery vehicle is.

When you are seeing this type of recovery, the 'stuck' vehicle is usually trying to drive out... It is a vastly different operation if you are dead-lifting the stuck vehicle (not drivable) and this is why tow-trucks have massive capacity.

It's like someone 'stuck' in the snow... often 2-3 people can push them out. Put it in neutral and watch them push it? Not going to happen. Put it in park? Ha ha...

BlueRidgeYJ 01-01-2013 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavsvet74

Absolutely a good thing. Keep in mind, when you use a snatch block to double the line back to the Jeep, you double the pulling force. A 9000# winch becomes a 18000# winch. 9000# of force gets be applied to each leg of the winch line. The snatch block holds one end of each leg. Therefore the snatch block needs to be rated for the extra load.

(if I'm way off on this, please feel free to correct me.:thumb:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneck

yeah this is what im trying to figure out myself, if the pulleys offer a mechanical advantage, do you just assume each pulley should be rated double what the winch is rated for? same thing with the straps you use?

Yes, all blocks, shackles, and tree straps must be 2x the winch rating if using a snatch block(s). They are subjected (potentially) to 2x the stall pull of your winch. The line itself is still subjected to 1x the force. This is basically a movable pulley system, and doesn't offer very good mechanical advantage, physics wise. Much better would be to use 2 blocks (tree & bumper), which would essentially form a compound pulley on the jeep, giving significant mechanical advantage (3x rating vs 2x rating). The rigging used then would still need to be 2x the pulling strength. You would need a very complicated block & tackle to need more than 2x SB ratings, I am not sure off hand how / if it could be done with common off road rigging. The trade is distance for force, but the work remains the same (Work = Force ● Distance). So given this thought, your 8K (for instance) winch could easily put 24k pounds of "move-it" with a couple pulleys on your stuck jeep. That is a lot of pressure and force, and you want no part of it's failure. The highest load bearing parts are the rigging points. If you use the same anchor, it needs to have strength for each leg (two legs x 16kea = 32k total + safety margin). So don't do that. Poor trees.

If you are buying at maximum load strength or break rating, factor in an aggressive saftey factor, like 3:1 or more. Dynamic loads can be much, much more than the load weight itself. Some equipment factors this in already, particularly real "rigging" equipment (for vertical suspension). You're pulling up a hill, think you can get it, roll it up a little then slide back - when the line catches you can put 5x the weight of the jeep on the line, not a good scenario, especially if the rigging gives way.

The Army recovery manual is a great resource for calculating stuck loads. A 4k lb jeep in the mud up to the frame on a 15% slope can require something like 13k lbs to move. Snatch blocks make it all possible, if rigged properly. If not, they are missles.

greentrib 01-01-2013 06:49 PM

Thought this was interesting. Its how to winch your self out to the rear when your winch is on your front bumper. It takes 3 snatch blocks and tree savers.

Reverse winch - You Tube

BlueRidgeYJ 01-01-2013 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greentrib
Thought this was interesting. Its how to winch your self out to the rear when your winch is on your front bumper. It takes 3 snatch blocks and tree savers.

Reverse winch - You Tube

Saw that they other day too. Totally awesome; I thought no way that could work, but the physics make it. Great to know, and one heck of a reason to get a 3rd block.

It does perfectly illistrate why/how the rigging needs double rating, though. The rear connection point is getting 2x the pulling force of the front (the winch itself), so it obviously needs a higher rating. If you put a post behind his jeep, cause that's the only way he is stuck, it would stall the winch. Then 2x the stall force would be applied to the rear connection point.

reade 01-01-2013 08:04 PM

Well for now I found three Smittybulit 18000 blocks on Amazon "as new" condition for $15.00 a piece shipped so I nabbed them. I'll be on the lookout for a deal on a 30,000 but the bargains will do in the meantime.

jklarry 01-01-2013 08:58 PM

don't forget the four rusty little bolts holding your winch down:eek:

reade 01-01-2013 09:00 PM

:thumb: would be good to check them once in a while too huh?


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