Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   New York Jeep Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f98/)
-   -   WTF Is wrong with the politicians in New York (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f98/wtf-is-wrong-with-the-politicians-in-new-york-213798.html)

tact 01-21-2013 02:41 PM

WTF Is wrong with the politicians in New York
 
I will not give up my right to bear arms I will not give up the Second Amendment for nobody

SmugglersBlues 01-21-2013 02:43 PM

The administration has said before if anyone was listening. If you can make it illegal then regulate it into extinction.

RevCo666 01-21-2013 02:49 PM

I dont want to stir up a hornets nest, but what is the infatuation with owning guns? If everyone owned one, do you think that would make your country a safer place? No offence.

ltsrapcon 01-21-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevCo666 (Post 3257089)
I dont want to stir up a hornets nest, but what is the infatuation with owning guns? If everyone owned one, do you think that would make your country a safer place? No offence.

Yes I do.

RevCo666 01-21-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltsrapcon (Post 3257100)
Yes I do.

And how do you figure? I'm just curious as I don't own any firearms... Never seen a need for them, maybe if your a hunter I guess.

(Put it this way, place 100 people in an enclosed area with a gun for each... I'm thinking one hell of stand off till one person pulls the trigger...)

Raiderfan001 01-21-2013 10:42 PM

I own guns because the police are minutes away when seconds count.

RevCo666 01-21-2013 11:13 PM

Is crime that bad in the States or is it mostly a precautionary choice? I live way up in Northern Ontario, Canada so maybe being in a rural area where crime is super low and old people driving on Sundays should be outlawed hehe is the norm in my area.

I hope your government can find a way to make your gun laws even to all, as I believe that its part of your constitutional right to bear arms(from what I understand). I'm not criticizing your laws, just trying to understand them.

Lincoln33 01-21-2013 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevCo666 (Post 3257089)
I dont want to stir up a hornets nest, but what is the infatuation with owning guns? If everyone owned one, do you think that would make your country a safer place? No offence.

It's not an infatuation with owning guns, it's about being able to protect yourself, and your family, from those who would do harm to you or your family.

We don't all live in safe communities and some areas are over run with crime. If you can't protect yourself you end up a victim, a statistic. You can't count on the police to be there when you need them so you have to be able to protect yourself, that's where the gun comes in.

I don't think the USA would be a safer place with "everyone" owning a gun. There's a lot of people, criminals and psychopaths, that shouldn't have guns.

RevCo666 01-21-2013 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lincoln33 (Post 3259706)
It's not an infatuation with owning guns, it's about being able to protect yourself, and your family, from those who would do harm to you or your family.

We don't all live in safe communities and some areas are over run with crime. If you can't protect yourself you end up a victim, a statistic. You can't count on the police to be there when you need them so you have to be able to protect yourself, that's where the gun comes in.

I don't think the USA would be a safer place with "everyone" owning a gun. There's a lot of people, criminals and psychopaths, that shouldn't have guns.

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter, makes sense...

tact 01-22-2013 06:30 AM

Please don't even get me started on why we need weapons in this country The reason this country was never taking over is because of the weapons in this country & that's just for starters I can give you 1 million reasons why weapons are needed

RevCo666 01-22-2013 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tact (Post 3260292)
Please don't even get me started on why we need weapons in this country The reason this country was never taking over is because of the weapons in this country & that's just for starters I can give you 1 million reasons why weapons are needed

:surrender:

ProTek 01-22-2013 09:49 AM

It's only assault weapons and large capacity magazines they are targeting right?

If so...that won't effect my collection of hunting and target guns one bit.

Raiderfan001 01-22-2013 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProTek (Post 3260846)
It's only assault weapons and large capacity magazines they are targeting right?

If so...that won't effect my collection of hunting and target guns one bit.

Thats depends on if you consider a semi automatic AR15 an assault rifle or not. (it's not)

JVLemur 01-22-2013 10:01 AM

Try owning a gun here in California, damn liberal nuts go crazy if you even start the word.

Vroooom 01-22-2013 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroooom (Post 3258921)
I hate to stir-up the pot again, but in the interests of stimulating insightful commentary :

I was still fertilizing diapers at the time, but I recently saw a movie about Richard Nixon where he got himself into a heap of trouble when he uttered the statement:
"It isnt illegal when I do it."

keep that in mind when you google:

18 USC section 241

Then as you ponder the potential of that...

18 USC section 242

It would seem that previous administrations have equiped us to resist all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC.

But to do so effectively, we must get off our couches, stop sniveling about the challenges, and actually make sensable, rational, carefully researched arguements.

What we cannot do....is continue to come accross as eaqually reactionary or intellectually disadvantaged every time we see a camera or microphone. They are relying on the momentum of emotion. We should be cautious to state our position intellegently so that we can diffuse their emotion rather than faning the flames.

R4D4R 01-22-2013 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevCo666 (Post 3257113)
And how do you figure? I'm just curious as I don't own any firearms... Never seen a need for them, maybe if your a hunter I guess.

(Put it this way, place 100 people in an enclosed area with a gun for each... I'm thinking one hell of stand off till one person pulls the trigger...)

How many times are you in a room with 100 people and fist fights just randomly break out? Or rapes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiderfan001 (Post 3260858)
Thats depends on if you consider a semi automatic AR15 an assault rifle or not. (it's not)

It is because it looks scary

RevCo666 01-22-2013 11:45 AM

Ok Everyone, I didnt come to this thread to cause issues, just trying to understand your law and perception of it. I agree that everyone has a right to there own opinion. So please lets all be nice lol

ESP 01-22-2013 11:48 AM

^ Agreed.

This thread is being watched here on the boards. It can continue as long as it remains courteous to each member.

Vroooom 01-22-2013 12:27 PM

Rev, perhaps I can help answer the questions...without seeming defensive.

Our country was established on the premis of being able to resist tyranny, oppression or assault...from anyone.

100 million americans owning 250 million weapons consitutes one heck of a resistance should it come to that....considering that only 10% would actually hold their ground, it would still be the largest force ever known in history. This is valid in keeping our own govenrment at bay, as well as dissuading other governments from looking at us like a ripe apple. Yamamoto once told his war councel that attacking the United States was foolish because even if they could defeat the entire military...they would then have to fight ever single armed citizen.

Then there is individual defense. Protecting yourself from criminals. Admittedly this is EXCEPTIONALLY rare, and the statistics show that the gun in your bed side table is FAR more likely to be stolen when you arent home than it is to be used when you wake up to the boogy-man. HOWEVER...there is credible research to show that the POTENTIAL of a resident having a gun PREVENTS many criminals from acting out their crime when they think someone is at home. Criminals arent stupid (usually) they are lazy (or they would earn their money). They want a path of least resistance. If they think "Hey, I just might get killed trying to take that guys TV." they are more likely to "shop" elsewhere.

Interesting, there was a city somewhere ( I apologize for not being able to cite by name and location) that banned firearms by city ordinance. Before the ordinance could be challenged overturned by the courts, the city rescended it. Seems that when they banned the firearms...their crime rate skyrocketed....and the crime rate in neighboring cities...dropped.

As one final example...there is a country very near to us with INCREADIBLY strict gun laws...specifically to prevent civil overthrow of their leadership. As a result, very few people have guns legally. But lots of bad guys have guns and have absolute impunity in their usage. Mexico.

Rome dominated the world because they had better weapons than their opposition. That point can be considered macroscopically in country vs country....but it is equally of person vs person. The person holding the lawbook will always dominate the person with a gun....as long as the person with the gun wants it that way...and not one second longer.

We simply seek to keep the odds balanced.

There are ample ways to protect or rights, and our safety at the same time. But they are long term strategies which arent well tolerated in a nation of people with predominantly etherial attention spans. MOST Americans dont have the patience to fix the problem. They want instant fixes to the symptoms so that they can make those dang news alerts stop interrupting our latest episodes of Spectacle-Entertainment.

jquinn83 01-22-2013 01:00 PM

Wow, Vrooom you stole my thunder. Good post.

RevCo666 01-22-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroooom (Post 3261477)
Rev, perhaps I can help answer the questions...without seeming defensive.

Our country was established on the premis of being able to resist tyranny, oppression or assault...from anyone.

100 million americans owning 250 million weapons consitutes one heck of a resistance should it come to that....considering that only 10% would actually hold their ground, it would still be the largest force ever known in history. This is valid in keeping our own govenrment at bay, as well as dissuading other governments from looking at us like a ripe apple. Yamamoto once told his war councel that attacking the United States was foolish because even if they could defeat the entire military...they would then have to fight ever single armed citizen.

Then there is individual defense. Protecting yourself from criminals. Admittedly this is EXCEPTIONALLY rare, and the statistics show that the gun in your bed side table is FAR more likely to be stolen when you arent home than it is to be used when you wake up to the boogy-man. HOWEVER...there is credible research to show that the POTENTIAL of a resident having a gun PREVENTS many criminals from acting out their crime when they think someone is at home. Criminals arent stupid (usually) they are lazy (or they would earn their money). They want a path of least resistance. If they think "Hey, I just might get killed trying to take that guys TV." they are more likely to "shop" elsewhere.

Interesting, there was a city somewhere ( I apologize for not being able to cite by name and location) that banned firearms by city ordinance. Before the ordinance could be challenged overturned by the courts, the city rescended it. Seems that when they banned the firearms...their crime rate skyrocketed....and the crime rate in neighboring cities...dropped.

As one final example...there is a country very near to us with INCREADIBLY strict gun laws...specifically to prevent civil overthrow of their leadership. As a result, very few people have guns legally. But lots of bad guys have guns and have absolute impunity in their usage. Mexico.

Rome dominated the world because they had better weapons than their opposition. That point can be considered macroscopically in country vs country....but it is equally of person vs person. The person holding the lawbook will always dominate the person with a gun....as long as the person with the gun wants it that way...and not one second longer.

We simply seek to keep the odds balanced.

There are ample ways to protect or rights, and our safety at the same time. But they are long term strategies which arent well tolerated in a nation of people with predominantly etherial attention spans. MOST Americans dont have the patience to fix the problem. They want instant fixes to the symptoms so that they can make those dang news alerts stop interrupting our latest episodes of Spectacle-Entertainment.

I believe i understand now. I hope i didnt come across as being naive/stupid in my earlier posts... Well if things go badly, you know you can count on Canada to help out anyway we can. :wavey:

ProTek 01-22-2013 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiderfan001 (Post 3260858)
Thats depends on if you consider a semi automatic AR15 an assault rifle or not. (it's not)

Good point. I guess as long as you can keep the clip size down, then the gun should not matter. You can take a plug out of a 12 gauge pump and that 12 gauge is gonna way more damage than a lil .223.

Problem is...there is still a lot of big clips out there and most are for the assault style weapons I guess. And the bad guys will be able to find them.

Vroooom 01-22-2013 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevCo666 (Post 3262043)
I believe i understand now. I hope i didnt come across as being naive/stupid in my earlier posts... Well if things go badly, you know you can count on Canada to help out anyway we can. :wavey:

You didnt come across that way at all. We are all just a bit jumpy down here, lately. Been rolling with the punches too long and the temptation to swing back sometimes gets displaced onto those who dont deserve it.

It is difficult for us to understand our own motivations sometimes. So it is VERY difficult for others to understand us.

I, for one, appreciate your curiousity and your willingness to ask a question to gain a better understanding even in an environment and climate that is prone to....responding poorly.

RevCo666 01-22-2013 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroooom (Post 3262842)
You didnt come across that way at all. We are all just a bit jumpy down here, lately. Been rolling with the punches too long and the temptation to swing back sometimes gets displaced onto those who dont deserve it.

It is difficult for us to understand our own motivations sometimes. So it is VERY difficult for others to understand us.

I, for one, appreciate your curiousity and your willingness to ask a question to gain a better understanding even in an environment and climate that is prone to....responding poorly.

If I felt my government was taking away my rights, I would be definately not in the best of moods either so everyone is justified within that right....

And at the moment our country is being overun by radicals/terrorists/protestors known as Idle No More which are blocking highways/rail system trying to cripple our economy because the First Nations dont know how to manage 10 billion a year of tax payers money. Personally its a load of crock, you may have seen them blocking the bridge in Winsor to the USA. Meanwhile should the average joe like me block a road, I'd get thrown in jail faster then you can say its a JEEP thing!!! :banghead:

jd3131 01-27-2013 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevCo666 (Post 3257113)
And how do you figure? I'm just curious as I don't own any firearms... Never seen a need for them, maybe if your a hunter I guess.

(Put it this way, place 100 people in an enclosed area with a gun for each... I'm thinking one hell of stand off till one person pulls the trigger...)

Takes a lot of nerve to try and take away guns from law abiding people. If someone gets murdered who just had their gun taken away that's blood on your hands.

dukedallas 02-01-2013 07:38 AM

Chris rock made the best comment on this whole topic ever! Forget all the gun talk just make bullets cost $5,000 a piece! LOL!

SmugglersBlues 02-02-2013 09:20 AM

duke, have you seen the price of ammo lately? I think he may not be far off.

SmugglersBlues 02-02-2013 09:24 AM

Asking why you need a gun if your town has a police department, is like asking why you need a fire extinquisher if your town has a fire department.

reaksmeyk 02-02-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vroooom (Post 3261477)
Rev, perhaps I can help answer the questions...without seeming defensive.

Our country was established on the premis of being able to resist tyranny, oppression or assault...from anyone.

100 million americans owning 250 million weapons consitutes one heck of a resistance should it come to that....considering that only 10% would actually hold their ground, it would still be the largest force ever known in history. This is valid in keeping our own govenrment at bay, as well as dissuading other governments from looking at us like a ripe apple. Yamamoto once told his war councel that attacking the United States was foolish because even if they could defeat the entire military...they would then have to fight ever single armed citizen.

Then there is individual defense. Protecting yourself from criminals. Admittedly this is EXCEPTIONALLY rare, and the statistics show that the gun in your bed side table is FAR more likely to be stolen when you arent home than it is to be used when you wake up to the boogy-man. HOWEVER...there is credible research to show that the POTENTIAL of a resident having a gun PREVENTS many criminals from acting out their crime when they think someone is at home. Criminals arent stupid (usually) they are lazy (or they would earn their money). They want a path of least resistance. If they think "Hey, I just might get killed trying to take that guys TV." they are more likely to "shop" elsewhere.

Interesting, there was a city somewhere ( I apologize for not being able to cite by name and location) that banned firearms by city ordinance. Before the ordinance could be challenged overturned by the courts, the city rescended it. Seems that when they banned the firearms...their crime rate skyrocketed....and the crime rate in neighboring cities...dropped.

As one final example...there is a country very near to us with INCREADIBLY strict gun laws...specifically to prevent civil overthrow of their leadership. As a result, very few people have guns legally. But lots of bad guys have guns and have absolute impunity in their usage. Mexico.

Rome dominated the world because they had better weapons than their opposition. That point can be considered macroscopically in country vs country....but it is equally of person vs person. The person holding the lawbook will always dominate the person with a gun....as long as the person with the gun wants it that way...and not one second longer.

We simply seek to keep the odds balanced.

There are ample ways to protect or rights, and our safety at the same time. But they are long term strategies which arent well tolerated in a nation of people with predominantly etherial attention spans. MOST Americans dont have the patience to fix the problem. They want instant fixes to the symptoms so that they can make those dang news alerts stop interrupting our latest episodes of Spectacle-Entertainment.

Well said!

reaksmeyk 02-02-2013 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmugglersBlues (Post 3311450)
Asking why you need a gun if your town has a police department, is like asking why you need a fire extinquisher if your town has a fire department.

Haha i like the analogy!


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 AM.