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-   -   The MYSTERY of CAI.. lets RANT about this (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/the-mystery-of-cai-lets-rant-about-this-215935.html)

pastorscott 01-30-2013 04:40 PM

The MYSTERY of CAI.. lets RANT about this
 
So
we all know that Cold air intakes dont work. Every link every forum. Its always the same. NO MPG gain- NO POWER GAINS... just noise..
So why do they still sell them...?? Im just at a loss.
They do nothing yet they have all these adds of power and MPG.. people buy them- then take them off and sell them on Ebay.. but why oh why arent they being sued ?? Why do so many guys on this forum have them ?
Lets get a fire started and burn them...Just my little rant

:banghead:

Dextreme 01-30-2013 04:44 PM

CAI's work great on Diesels. It just that they don't work or protect better on our TJ motors since the OEM design is already very efficient.

George C 01-30-2013 04:46 PM

ive dyno tested few different platforms with CAI and had gains...as for say a jeep platform you wouldnt want to suck in mud or dirt with an open element filter...now a performance vehicle it helps if the design is right

ob269 01-30-2013 04:47 PM

Yes, they work great on some vehicles.. particularly where it sucks air from inside the engine bay..

JSY 01-30-2013 04:49 PM

I made my intake pull through the vent in the cowl behind the hood. Definitely as cold air as you can get and there isn't any power difference. Just a higher intake to keep it away from the water.

shatteredsoul 01-30-2013 05:33 PM

My TJ came with the Edge trail jammer kit already installed, she runs great so no need for me to take it off. I can say it has plenty of power on take-off , Im sure it cost the PO a pretty penny. This kit has the CAI, throttle body w/spacer and a plug in electronic module.

DevilDogDoc 01-30-2013 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shatteredsoul (Post 3300567)
My TJ came with the Edge trail jammer kit already installed, she runs great so no need for me to take it off. I can say it has plenty of power on take-off , Im sure it cost the PO a pretty penny. This kit has the CAI, throttle body w/spacer and a plug in electronic module.

I'm willing to bet that my 4.88's make more of a difference than all that crap put together....

shatteredsoul 01-30-2013 05:50 PM

Yes, depending on your tire size. My Jeep is currently at stock height with 30"s and 3.07 gears so she has plenty of power. What difference are you talking about anyway?

DevilDogDoc 01-30-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shatteredsoul (Post 3300643)
Yes, depending on your tire size. My Jeep is currently at stock height with 30"s and 3.07 gears so she has plenty of power. What difference are you talking about anyway?

What I am saying is I'm willing to bet that my rig thats armored on 33's pulls harder to redline than your stocker does with all those add-ons.....

shatteredsoul 01-30-2013 06:00 PM

I have only owned this TJ so I have nothing to base anything on but how about lets do a 0-60 mph video posted on youtube and find out, dont know about you but now Im really curious.

DevilDogDoc 01-30-2013 06:04 PM

Well being as how mine started off bone stock on 30's with 3.07's I think its safe to say I know what I am referring too, but as soon as I have that video done I'll let you know...

shatteredsoul 01-30-2013 06:09 PM

Sounds good, Im not trying to start a pissing match and please dont take it that way Im seriously curious if it what I have makes a difference or not since I havent drove a TJ until I bought mine. If I find out theres no notable difference then I would remove what I have and even thought about doing it anyways back to stock. Thanks for being a good sport and hopefully we can put some myths to bed once and for all!

viperx6x9x 01-30-2013 06:49 PM

they definitely do no good if you are not pulling in cold air, and I don't see anyway to mount it inside the engine bay so it won't pull in the hot air from around the engine.

I doubt you get more than a few horses out of it anyway, but I have seen some imports where they mount it directly behind the headlight, and remove the headlight at the racetrack. The intake filter is also in an isolated box (sort of like the K&N FIPK2 setups) so it directly forces colder air from outside the vehicle into it.

Simply put colder air = more dense air. More dense air aids in better fuel atomizing. This makes more efficient use of your fuel and, although minimal, better power. That being said, you may need upgraded fuel injectors in combination with this to really see a difference. This could also minimally get you better mileage, but again not enough to notice on it's own.

But again, where do you mount it on a wrangler to get actual cold air into it? Snorkel maybe, but then you have a longer tube the air has to travel through to get to the intake and time for it to warm up slightly.

So C.A.I. can make a little difference in some applications, but it seems to me it's kind of pointless on a wrangler. If i ever put another intake on it, it's gonna be a snorkel, but only to keep water out of it when I am playing around on trails.

speaking of snorkels (sorry my mind sidetracks), any ideas to keep water out of it when it's raining? Or just don't drive it in the rain?

00tj2 01-30-2013 11:47 PM

They do work, just have to be in the right application. Ie: in a mustang they work. In a regular displacement wrangler, not so much. If you have a 4.9 stroker, I'm sure a CAI would work better. Now, if you have your intake routed inside the cowl or inside the cab like I've seen some do then yes, anytime an engine gets cold air is better then getting hot air. It all comes down to are you willing to pay between 100-400 for 1-5 HP???

Patrick H 01-30-2013 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilDogDoc (Post 3300587)
I'm willing to bet that my 4.88's make more of a difference than all that crap put together....

Without a doubt.

allblackedout 01-31-2013 12:00 AM

For my 3.8 2011 there really was a noticable improvement in throttle response. I mean it doesn't justify $350, but still, you can't say it has no benifits at all.

SeVeReDiStOrTiOn 01-31-2013 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorscott (Post 3300350)
So
we all know that Cold air intakes dont work. Every link every forum. Its always the same. NO MPG gain- NO POWER GAINS... just noise..
So why do they still sell them...?? Im just at a loss.
They do nothing yet they have all these adds of power and MPG.. people buy them- then take them off and sell them on Ebay.. but why oh why arent they being sued ?? Why do so many guys on this forum have them ?
Lets get a fire started and burn them...Just my little rant

:banghead:

That's not true at all. Check out any LSx forum and one of the first power mods recommended is a lid (CAI) and FRA (free ram air) mod...$90 for a solid 15-20rwhp.

On a jeep the factory intake isn't restrictive because it meets the 4.0's needs...but if you bolt up that same intake to a 350 it'll instantly be a bottleneck. So like the others said it depends on application.

Neil F. 01-31-2013 06:33 AM

Again concur with above posts. They do make a difference on other applications. 89 Mustang GT, 99 Durango 5.9 are my other vehicles and there is plenty of web dyno information documenting gains.

Apparently they do not make much difference on a 4.0. Also consider how most drive the Jeep. You are not romping on it. Most of the gains of mods such as this are at WOT and high RPM. Note even if you put on 5 hp, that is not something the "butt dyno" is going to discern.

Patrick H 01-31-2013 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allblackedout (Post 3302339)
For my 3.8 2011 there really was a noticable improvement in throttle response. I mean it doesn't justify $350, but still, you can't say it has no benifits at all.


The engine and it's intake system on a JK has nothing in common with a TJ 4.0, so you can't compare the two..:)

UnlimitedLJ04 01-31-2013 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shatteredsoul (Post 3300734)
Sounds good, Im not trying to start a pissing match and please dont take it that way Im seriously curious if it what I have makes a difference or not since I havent drove a TJ until I bought mine. If I find out theres no notable difference then I would remove what I have and even thought about doing it anyways back to stock. Thanks for being a good sport and hopefully we can put some myths to bed once and for all!

you yourself admit you don't have any other basis for comparison. all the bolt on stuff you have amounts to a very minimal gain, and only at high RPMs you rarely see. for the same price you can regear and have a very noticeable difference everywhere, at every RPM. that's the point :D

Black Magic Brakes 01-31-2013 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorscott (Post 3300350)
So
we all know that Cold air intakes dont work. Every link every forum. Its always the same. NO MPG gain- NO POWER GAINS... just noise..
So why do they still sell them...?? Im just at a loss.
They do nothing yet they have all these adds of power and MPG.. people buy them- then take them off and sell them on Ebay.. but why oh why arent they being sued ?? Why do so many guys on this forum have them ?
Lets get a fire started and burn them...Just my little rant

:banghead:

There are a lot of products that are like that. My personal favorite is the drop down tail gate in any iteration. I've yet to understand the fascination with a mod that provides a benefit on a very infrequent basis and provides a much higher level of inconvenience every time you need to access anything in the rear of the vehicle, yet look at the popularity.

Before anyone gets their feathers ruffled, I made one out of aluminum many years ago, installed and ran it for a bit and went back to stock due to the annoyance with lack of access.

http://www.justaddrocks.com/Johnson_...3/DSCN6617.jpg

wtrwkr 01-31-2013 09:10 AM

Looks like you boys just saved me $200. I was about to do this mod because the reviews say otherwise.

jgorm 01-31-2013 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorscott (Post 3300350)
So why do they still sell them...?? Im just at a loss.

There is an idiot born every minute just waiting to eat up the manufactures BS dyno charts and fork over cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorscott (Post 3300350)
They do nothing yet they have all these adds of power and MPG.. people buy them- then take them off and sell them on Ebay.. but why oh why arent they being sued ??

Anybody that goes to court for a lawsuit over a <$400 intake has never been to court, or has any idea of the cost for a case like this. They'd be far better off calling the MFG and asking for a refund. They also say "typical gains" and your car is not "typical". So unless you wanted to dyno 20 different jeeps with their intake, you dont have a case.
Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorscott (Post 3300350)
Why do so many guys on this forum have them ?

See my first statement.

I did a ton of pulls on my jeep with my dyno and didn't see many gains. It's really easy to "cook" a dyno chart. If I posted this chart without the background there would be sheeple racing to buy the intake.
http://www.tricktuners.com/forums/at...9&d=1333377143

Dextreme 01-31-2013 11:07 AM

This very much reminds me of the "Boost Bottle" debate for 2 Strokes. On a Yamaha Banshee they actually lose 2HP on the dyno, yet people still buy them.

This is the joke Dyno chart that we always laugh about...but its pretty much the same for a CAI for the 2.5L and 4.0L motors I am sure. :rofl:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...BottleDyno.jpg

Atthehop 01-31-2013 11:13 AM

If I do a drop down tail gate and drive with it down like so many pick up truck drivers do because they were told they will get better mpg's will my mpg's get better. Of course NOT. But I still see them doing it. In fact I believe Mythbusters proved it made mpg's worse if I remember correctly.

Dextreme 01-31-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Magic Brakes (Post 3303099)
There are a lot of products that are like that. My personal favorite is the drop down tail gate in any iteration. I've yet to understand the fascination with a mod that provides a benefit on a very infrequent basis and provides a much higher level of inconvenience every time you need to access anything in the rear of the vehicle, yet look at the popularity.

Before anyone gets their feathers ruffled, I made one out of aluminum many years ago, installed and ran it for a bit and went back to stock due to the annoyance with lack of access.

Troy's kit makes sense to me mostly as a work table surface and place to sit. :thumb:

SWAG Off Road Jeep Wrangler 97-06 TJ & LJ Fold Down Tailgate Conversion Kit - YouTube

Chili99 01-31-2013 11:27 AM

they do work in the right application especially combined with other mods....in my Vettes they work well especially with headers and a cam and a blower...:D

the wrangler I bought had one already installed....I look at it this way...I will never have to buy another air filter as long as I clean this one

Black Magic Brakes 01-31-2013 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dextreme (Post 3303547)
Troy's kit makes sense to me mostly as a work table surface and place to sit. :thumb:

SWAG Off Road Jeep Wrangler 97-06 TJ & LJ Fold Down Tailgate Conversion Kit - YouTube

Troy is a great guy and makes some very innovative and useful products. I'm guessing you can pretty much figure where that tailgate kit slots in?

I can count on one hand the times I've wished for a table offroad since 99. I carry a chair that is oodles more comfy than any tailgate I've sat on, not to mention when I do sit, I'm usually looking for shade which my tailgate is rarely in.

I can almost always figure that I will need to get into the bed on any trail run so the few times that the table would be convenient, it is always a restriction to access. If that were not the case, I would not have removed it and given it away.

But, please enjoy yours, I know I wouldn't.

Jerry Bransford 01-31-2013 11:49 AM

When I first saw the drop-down tailgate, I thought it was cool & wanted it. Then I went wheeling with a guy who had just installed it & before the day was over, my fascination with it was over. It made getting into the back of his Jeep for tools, etc. more difficult enough that its minimal functionality as a table/seat was soon outweighed by its more difficult access disadvantage.

Jeep originally had a drop-down tailgate but converted to a swing-out tailgate & never looked back. To me, a drop-down tailgate makes sense on a pickup truck but aside from its novelty factor, I don't see enough benefit with one on a TJ to outweigh the inconvenient access to the rear it causes. Come on, how often would you eat on or sit on a drop down tailgate vs. all the times you just need to open it to get stuff out of the back. I'd venture a 100:1 ratio.

viperx6x9x 01-31-2013 11:57 AM

But if you go to a tailgate party, you have to have a tailgate. :) Would be more interesting to me if it had some cup holders or something built in for my beer.

or, if I didn't have to rethink a way to carry a spare tire after i install it. It's not like tires NEVER get a flat out on the trails or anything. I guess we will just drive it on the rim, the mud is soft it won't hurt it. :)


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