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-   -   Emissions (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f218/emissions-221235.html)

Cyrus1983 02-21-2013 09:51 PM

Emissions
 
I recently took my 1988 jeep 4.2l wrangler sport to inspection and she failed for emissions... The results will be posted as a pic with this thread... Can u guys help me rectify this issue plz and thank u...

Cyrus1983 02-21-2013 09:56 PM

Emissions results
 
1 Attachment(s)
I recently took my 1988 jeep 4.2l wrangler sport to inspection and she failed for emissions... The results will be posted as a pic with this thread... Can u guys help me rectify this issue plz and thank u... Here are the results plz advise

2xs 02-21-2013 11:47 PM

Too much fuel, your carb is faulty.

You can probably lean it out at idle, but look for other sources of fuel, is your PCV clogged? How is your O2 sensor? Is your EVAP (Charcoal) canister full of fuel?

Look for ANYTHING that can cause a rich mixture.

Cyrus1983 02-22-2013 12:35 PM

My jeep don't have a O2 sensor it didnt come with one when i bought it my evap canister is ok as far as I can tell... My vacuum lines seem to be good, no leaks... So it could be a carb issue

kik 02-22-2013 04:25 PM

Your 4.2 is supposed to have an O2 sensor. It was most likely disconnected and discarded. Not having one can cause your ECU to cause a more rich condition. That, in conjunction with an older carb. and you have increased levels. You can try cleaning the carb. and adjust it to run a leaner mixture.

2xs 02-22-2013 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus1983 (Post 3405394)
My jeep don't have a O2 sensor it didnt come with one when i bought it my evap canister is ok as far as I can tell... My vacuum lines seem to be good, no leaks... So it could be a carb issue

Your Jeep has an O2 sensor, your carb is a feedback carb and relies on an O2 sensor....

Anyone who tells you different is either dumb, OR knows nothing about vehicles (except how to install gas and put it in gear)....

Scan and post that entire report please....

NonRubicon 02-23-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kik (Post 3406155)
Your 4.2 is supposed to have an O2 sensor. It was most likely disconnected and discarded. Not having one can cause your ECU to cause a more rich condition. That, in conjunction with an older carb. and you have increased levels. You can try cleaning the carb. and adjust it to run a leaner mixture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xs (Post 3407539)
Your Jeep has an O2 sensor, your carb is a feedback carb and relies on an O2 sensor....

Anyone who tells you different is either dumb, OR knows nothing about vehicles (except how to install gas and put it in gear)....

Scan and post that entire report please....

Unfortunately good sirs, while your assumptions might have held true for a California vehicle or for a stock engine, you have made assumptions about the vehicle in question that are in fact, incorrect. You have no confirmation on the type of carb that is actually on the engine. It might do you well to gather more information from the OP, before you start assuming things.

Fun fact: There is a little thing known in Jeep parlance as the "Nutter Bypass" which allows people to take the computer out of the picture and install an aftermarket non-feedback carb, on the 4.2L. It is quite popular where it is legal to do so. Compared to the OEM setup, an aftermarket setup is much more simple and less cluttered.

With that said, the vehicle in question has an aftermarket carb installed, and does not need nor use an O2 sensor, nor the computer. How do I know this? The OP has posted up the same question on JeepForum.com, where the first thing that was asked of him was what type of carb he was running.

It is either an Autolite or a Motorcraft 2150 carb that is currently on the OP's Jeep. No O2 sensor needed, as it is not a feedback carb.

ThePhantomPatriot 02-23-2013 05:18 PM

Is there any kind of waiver you can get for emissions? In MD if you spend more than $500 (I think it is) and the issue still isn't fixed you automatically pass until next time.

kik 02-23-2013 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonRubicon (Post 3409763)
Unfortunately good sirs, while your assumptions might have held true for a California vehicle or for a stock engine, you have made assumptions about the vehicle in question that are in fact, incorrect. You have no confirmation on the type of carb that is actually on the engine. It might do you well to gather more information from the OP, before you start assuming things.

Fun fact: There is a little thing known in Jeep parlance as the "Nutter Bypass" which allows people to take the computer out of the picture and install an aftermarket non-feedback carb, on the 4.2L. It is quite popular where it is legal to do so. Compared to the OEM setup, an aftermarket setup is much more simple and less cluttered.

With that said, the vehicle in question has an aftermarket carb installed, and does not need nor use an O2 sensor, nor the computer. How do I know this? The OP has posted up the same question on JeepForum.com, where the first thing that was asked of him was what type of carb he was running.

It is either an Autolite or a Motorcraft 2150 carb that is currently on the OP's Jeep. No O2 sensor needed, as it is not a feedback carb.

Thank you good sir for trying to protect the OP from the uninformed forum members who are attempting to assist someone who has a problem with passing a "NJ" emissions inspection. Your information is correct. I "assumed" he had a stock set up since he didn't mention otherwise. It might do you well not to assume no one else is aware of such things in Jeep parlance such as a nutter bypass, etc. :rolleyes: Interesting factoid. My cluttered, non nuttered, non simple, O2 sensored, computer controlled, feed back carb'd 89 4.2 has passed a NJ emmisions inspection every 2 yrs. for the past 24 yrs. without an issue. ;)

2xs 02-23-2013 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonRubicon (Post 3409763)
Unfortunately good sirs, while your assumptions might have held true for a California vehicle or for a stock engine, you have made assumptions about the vehicle in question that are in fact, incorrect. You have no confirmation on the type of carb that is actually on the engine. It might do you well to gather more information from the OP, before you start assuming things.

Fun fact: There is a little thing known in Jeep parlance as the "Nutter Bypass" which allows people to take the computer out of the picture and install an aftermarket non-feedback carb, on the 4.2L. It is quite popular where it is legal to do so. Compared to the OEM setup, an aftermarket setup is much more simple and less cluttered.

With that said, the vehicle in question has an aftermarket carb installed, and does not need nor use an O2 sensor, nor the computer. How do I know this? The OP has posted up the same question on JeepForum.com, where the first thing that was asked of him was what type of carb he was running.

It is either an Autolite or a Motorcraft 2150 carb that is currently on the OP's Jeep. No O2 sensor needed, as it is not a feedback carb.

Get off your high horse, ALL HE FAILED FOR WAS TAILPIPE EMISSIONS, meaning the STOCK carb is installed, or the smog tech was a MORON, so my assumption the stock stuff is on the vehicle is based on the fact he PASSED VISUAL for all that stuff, meaning the STOCK stuff is either in place, or the smog tech performed in ILLEGAL smog check.... (this is true in ANY state via FEDERAL EMISSION STANDARDS).

Your Nutter bypass and aftermarket parts rant is worthless considering the information the OP has given us at wranglerforum.com.

PERHAPS if he wants a better answer he needs to let us know ALL the information.

BTW, OP, you should fail yoru smog as OE equipment has been modified or removed.
You can ONLY adjust the mixture at idle, so start by either replacing all that aftermarket stuff with stock stuff, or do it right with a Howell TBI kit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xs (Post 3407539)
Scan and post that entire report please....


roadyrob 02-24-2013 06:39 AM

while its true that the stock emissions should be operable according to federal law most states don't require the tester to verify this. the tester in NJ did his job according to the laws of his state. thankfully most of the country isn't CA.
OP find a shop with an exhaust gas analizer, they should be able to adjust the carb, timing, etc so you will pass.
to state that a carb mixture is only adjustable at idle is false, jet size and float level also control mixture.

2xs 02-24-2013 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadyrob (Post 3412658)
to state that a carb mixture is only adjustable at idle is false, jet size and float level also control mixture.

The only adjustment in a carburetor you can make is the idle mixture, Float levels and needle/jet size is not an adjustment, its a rebuild, you have to remove the top of the carb and replace hard parts, thats not an adjustment....

roadyrob 02-24-2013 07:22 PM

call it what you want, the carb mixture can still be changed. if you think changing jets and adjusting the float is a rebuild you obviously don't know carbs. its just part of the process of setting up a carb properly.

Elk3mist 02-28-2013 08:46 PM

I own a 97 wrangler sport 4.0L that just failed smog. At 15mph the max is 522 and I'm running at 692.. Anyone have any suggestion what I can do?

Elk3mist 02-28-2013 08:47 PM

Sorry it's CA and its the NO (ppm) that failed

2xs 02-28-2013 09:04 PM

Please scan and post the entire report, all the numbers work together so if other numbers are higher or lower different things can be happening.
Hc is Hydrocarbons (unburned fuel) and is usually the result of ignition component failures.
However Hc can be high with high C0 and be a cat issue even tho the C0 is currently passing.

Please post the whole report.

Elk3mist 02-28-2013 09:13 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here you go..

Attachment 215942

2xs 03-01-2013 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elk3mist (Post 3435798)
Here you go..

Attachment 215942

I misread your initial post as HC, NOx is created by excessive heat.
Excessive heat can be caused by a number of things, but in your case it looks like a vacuum leak, you are running LEAN, 15.2%CO2 is lean, 14.7% is ideal.
.25% O2 (average) is high, while HC and CO are lower then expected (yes HC shows as average, but thats an assumed number by the B.A.R. and its assumed way low, think 15-25ish).

Look for a Vacuum leak, you are running Lean, If you cannot find a vacuum leak, look at the O2 sensor, if it is sending a rich message to the computer the computer will lean out the mixture to try to compensate.

Im also wondering why he shifted into third, the test MUST be ruin in second for both speeds UNLESS the RPM goes out of range.

Also, is there ANY reason you didnt post the whole report as I asked? there is other information on there I can use, not as important, but it allows me to look at history tests and the technicians record and such...

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pubwebqu...PubTstQry.aspx

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/pubwebqu...r/welcome.aspx

Elk3mist 03-01-2013 06:51 AM

That was the whole report. The top portion was the business logo, address and disclaimers..

Elk3mist 03-01-2013 07:27 AM

1 Attachment(s)
My apologies my jeeps information is on the top

Attachment 216078

Cyrus1983 03-01-2013 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xs (Post 3411991)

Get off your high horse, ALL HE FAILED FOR WAS TAILPIPE EMISSIONS, meaning the STOCK carb is installed, or the smog tech was a MORON, so my assumption the stock stuff is on the vehicle is based on the fact he PASSED VISUAL for all that stuff, meaning the STOCK stuff is either in place, or the smog tech performed in ILLEGAL smog check.... (this is true in ANY state via FEDERAL EMISSION STANDARDS).

Your Nutter bypass and aftermarket parts rant is worthless considering the information the OP has given us at wranglerforum.com.

PERHAPS if he wants a better answer he needs to let us know ALL the information.

BTW, OP, you should fail yoru smog as OE equipment has been modified or removed.
You can ONLY adjust the mixture at idle, so start by either replacing all that aftermarket stuff with stock stuff, or do it right with a Howell TBI kit.

The jeep dose not have a stock carb when I got the jeep a year ago it came with the autolite-Motorcraft carb installed already it has no O2 censer... There is a lot that was removed from the intake manifold itself ill post pictures tomorrow... New Jersey inspections are for emissions only now the no longer inspect for functionality of lights or anything... They check for fluid leaks and emissions, that's all... I will post more info as I gather it.... Thank u all for ur help and support in this issue I'm having... U guys have been giving me great intel and helpful suggestions :D

Cyrus1983 03-01-2013 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePhantomPatriot (Post 3410442)
Is there any kind of waiver you can get for emissions? In MD if you spend more than $500 (I think it is) and the issue still isn't fixed you automatically pass until next time.

No there is not... At least not that I'm aware of fellow jeep enthusiast...

Cyrus1983 03-01-2013 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadyrob (Post 3412658)
while its true that the stock emissions should be operable according to federal law most states don't require the tester to verify this. the tester in NJ did his job according to the laws of his state. thankfully most of the country isn't CA.
OP find a shop with an exhaust gas analizer, they should be able to adjust the carb, timing, etc so you will pass.
to state that a carb mixture is only adjustable at idle is false, jet size and float level also control mixture.

I'm hopping to take it to the shop called getti that dose the maintenance work on the cars and truck for the borgata casino resort in Atlantic city a security officer my mom works with is a mechanic there as well as his uncle who I believes runs the shop so I'm crossing my fingers lol

2xs 03-01-2013 10:32 PM

Cyrus1983 Have your carb re-set up, you are running rich at all RPMs and im thinkign if you have it rebuilt/calibrated you should be ok, its just dumping too much fuel into the engine.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Elk3mist (Post 3437232)
My apologies my jeeps information is on the top

Attachment 216078

Looking at your Jeeps history, it seems to have a pattern of failing about every smog cycle.
mechanics have been missing hte problem,a nd possible popping a cat on it to "Get it by".

That tech looks to be pretty good, high Long term scores, ask his opinion.

FYI: if there is a leak before the cat, and its bad enough it can disable the NOx reduction bed in the Cat, so fix that first! If there is no leak before the cat, I guarantee if you find the cause of that lean condition you will fix your NOx issue.

Cyrus1983 03-01-2013 10:35 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xs (Post 3411991)

Get off your high horse, ALL HE FAILED FOR WAS TAILPIPE EMISSIONS, meaning the STOCK carb is installed, or the smog tech was a MORON, so my assumption the stock stuff is on the vehicle is based on the fact he PASSED VISUAL for all that stuff, meaning the STOCK stuff is either in place, or the smog tech performed in ILLEGAL smog check.... (this is true in ANY state via FEDERAL EMISSION STANDARDS).

Your Nutter bypass and aftermarket parts rant is worthless considering the information the OP has given us at wranglerforum.com.

PERHAPS if he wants a better answer he needs to let us know ALL the information.

BTW, OP, you should fail yoru smog as OE equipment has been modified or removed.
You can ONLY adjust the mixture at idle, so start by either replacing all that aftermarket stuff with stock stuff, or do it right with a Howell TBI kit.

How is this for all the info: Ok ill try and answer everyone at once... I have either a autolite or Motorcraft 2150 aftermarket carburetor.... Iv givin the engine a full tune up before I took it to inspection, plugs, wires, distributor, rotor, oil change, oil filter and air cleaner element... It dose not have an O2 sensor The jeep is a 88 sport I do not know how old the cat is............I'm still trying to fix all the issues the last jack off that owned it caused... Idk how but it has a 1976-1989 Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, distributor with the over the top ignition coil... And the autolite-Motorcraft 2150 carb that's suppose to be for my jeep isn't the one I got but a possible ford aftermarket carb instead... Iv nick named the jeep Frankenstein lol I'm at a loss.. I could be wrong about the carb but every pic i have looked up as far as jeeps go it don't match what I have... This was copied directly from my jeepforum.com page.....

Cyrus1983 03-01-2013 10:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrus1983 (Post 3441414)

How is this for all the info: Ok ill try and answer everyone at once... I have either a autolite or Motorcraft 2150 aftermarket carburetor.... Iv givin the engine a full tune up before I took it to inspection, plugs, wires, distributor, rotor, oil change, oil filter and air cleaner element... It dose not have an O2 sensor The jeep is a 88 sport I do not know how old the cat is............I'm still trying to fix all the issues the last jack off that owned it caused... Idk how but it has a 1976-1989 Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, distributor with the over the top ignition coil... And the autolite-Motorcraft 2150 carb that's suppose to be for my jeep isn't the one I got but a possible ford aftermarket carb instead... Iv nick named the jeep Frankenstein lol I'm at a loss.. I could be wrong about the carb but every pic i have looked up as far as jeeps go it don't match what I have... This was copied directly from my jeepforum.com page.....

Here is another pic of the full motor ill get a better one of the carb tomorrow

roadyrob 03-02-2013 05:45 AM

you have a hei distributor, along with the motorcraft carb, very popular mods to the 258. a good carb man should be able to get this to pass as long as you don't have a visual inspection.

Cyrus1983 03-02-2013 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadyrob (Post 3442478)
you have a hei distributor, along with the motorcraft carb, very popular mods to the 258. a good carb man should be able to get this to pass as long as you don't have a visual inspection.

But rob the thing is is that idk for sure if its a Motorcraft carb or autolite... It dose not have any identifying marks or name nor identification tag on it, as ill show when I go to take pics of it shortly... And the distributor I found online and learned it was a hei... The original cap tho had Delco Remy stamped on it as well as the ignition coil cover but to this day I have yet to find any Delco Remy distributor or ignition product... I have found alternators and shit like that but no cap lol I thank all u guys for all ur help and effort

roadyrob 03-02-2013 09:51 AM

delco remy is the division of GM that made the distributor originally. it was used in late 70's early 80's gm cars. popular junk yard swap, get a dizzy from a 6 cyl and change the drive gear. the ones you see for sale are the same aftermarket dizzy with the correct gear.

2xs 03-02-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xs (Post 3441391)
Cyrus1983 Have your carb re-set up, you are running rich at all RPMs and im thinkign if you have it rebuilt/calibrated you should be ok, its just dumping too much fuel into the engine.

And make sure its set up to match your engine...


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