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-   -   Negotiating a deal (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/negotiating-a-deal-221455.html)

hoopster3 02-22-2013 11:29 PM

Negotiating a deal
 
I am very frustrated with my local Jeep salesman. I can't get him to return calls or emails and he seems unwilling to work with me. I have never bought a Jeep before but I doubt all are like this guy. I believe I'll start looking elsewhere.

On that topic- what would be the best way to approach a different dealer? Do I come right out and mention that being a Tread Lightly member gets me a 1% below invoice price? Do I slap down a KBB printout of the exact Wrangler I want with invoice pricing? Unfortunately part of my battle will be getting good value out of my trade-in. I'm also not opposed to getting my own financing elsewhere, when do I bring this up?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Tweak 02-22-2013 11:36 PM

if they arent returning your calls, they obviously do not want your business. time to look elsewhere!

watson 02-22-2013 11:41 PM

Why aren't you at the dealership negotiating?

Why are you trying this over the phone?

hoopster3 02-22-2013 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watson (Post 3407912)
Why aren't you at the dealership negotiating?

Why are you trying this over the phone?

Been there already. Test drove and let them look at my trade-in. Didn't get too far with them. That was also before I stumbled upon these forums and Tread Lightly! information.

watson 02-22-2013 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopster3

Been there already. Test drove and let them look at my trade-in. Didn't get too far with them. That was also before I stumbled upon these forums and Tread Lightly! information.

Then go back. Do you really think you're going to go farther over the phone?

Go back to the dealer and drive a hard bargain.

jdambm 02-23-2013 12:14 AM

Why dont you send Pat at Fields jeep a pm or email. I am sure he can help you. He is a sponsor on here a fellow jeeper and a straight shooter. Alot of people have great things to say about him and he knows a ton about jeeps.

tboy58 02-23-2013 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watson
Why aren't you at the dealership negotiating?

Why are you trying this over the phone?

I always go to dealership, drive vehicle, get their numbers, then walk away! The dealer understands the emotional attachment one gets immediately with the vehicle they want. If you are not willing to walk away, you will pay more than you need to.

sgtkersh 02-23-2013 05:22 AM

Negotiating a deal
 
If you have it use a car buying service like USAA, Costcos, etc. They can cut through a lot of the BS. I've bought my last 4 cars through USAA's service all below invoice.

Go to edmunds.com and configure what you want and see not only invoice but true market price. IE, what sales are actually being reported.

Next, research all dealer websites to check inventory. Even look at Autotrader. Dealers will post good deals there, maybe only 1-2 vehicles to get you in the door.

Then go to the dealer armed with the info. My last Jeep the price was good but my trade wasn't. I politely let them know there was about 200 other new Jeeps in the DC area and I knew how many at each dealership. They asked me what I wanted for the trade and I got $2k more and paid $1k below invoice.

Shop at the end of the month when they are pressured to make sales. End of the quarter might even be better. I bought mine end of December and I think they were short for 2012 sales. I got my 13 JKU Sport $4k below MSRP and from I could see $1k below invoice.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App

brian d 02-23-2013 05:35 AM

I would steer clear of Costco. I shot them a call to get a price and not only was it 1000 more than my dealer, they didn't leave me alone for weeks. We're talking emails, phone calls, flyers in the mail even after I told them I had the new jeep sitting in the driveway. YMMV

Dave S 02-23-2013 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopster3 (Post 3407868)
I am very frustrated with my local Jeep salesman. I can't get him to return calls or emails and he seems unwilling to work with me. I have never bought a Jeep before but I doubt all are like this guy. I believe I'll start looking elsewhere.

On that topic- what would be the best way to approach a different dealer? Do I come right out and mention that being a Tread Lightly member gets me a 1% below invoice price? Do I slap down a KBB printout of the exact Wrangler I want with invoice pricing? Unfortunately part of my battle will be getting good value out of my trade-in. I'm also not opposed to getting my own financing elsewhere, when do I bring this up?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The way I did it was to email several dealers in my area. In the email I mentioned that I was a Tread Lightly member, had no trade-in, and had my own financing. I asked for their best out-the-door price minus tax & title. This should get you to 1% below invoice at the minimum. I had a couple of dealers that were lower than TL pricing, I then negotiated with them and ended up at ~4% under invoice. Once I had my lowest offer, I went back to the dealer near my house that I wanted to work with and started the negotiations there. If they do not want to negotiate, walk away. Some dealers count on the emotional attachment and the "gotta have it now" instant gratification that a lot of buyers have to sell vehicles. I find that working with dealers remotely eliminates the emotions and lets you approach the deal from a position of strength. Do your research, understand what your options are and go from there.

mike1158 02-23-2013 06:54 AM

i am about to buy a jeep in the next couple weeks... we bought a Grand Chreokee for my wife about 18 months ago...we were at the dealer for some service about a months ago, i told our salesman i 'might be looking' for a wrangler in a little while, he said come see me, you're a repeat customer..i'll take care of you (i believe him, he was good to deal with before...we walked in with a good number from another dealer..he said 'that IS a good number and matched it..difference is he had we she wanted on lot)
...anyway. i know what i want..i know i'm gonna have to order it..i've run the numbers..i have the invoice pricing w/ options calculated out...and i'm going in with 3% off that and saying "this is what i want, and this is what i'm gonna pay...lets make it fast"... that way he gets his commision, which from what i understand doesn't have anything to do with price..it's done per unit...flat rate...so it better for him to make a FAST deal.
i won't waste alot of his time, he can wrap up the deal and move on to some of the other people that wander around the lot with no clue what they want or what they should pay for it...saying "ohh this is nice, i like this one"...these people are a sales managers dream, HE cares about the price.
From what i've seen if you can get 10% off MSRP you are in a good neighborhood... if you crunch the numbers its just about the same as invoice -3%...and its an easier way to do the math quickly..

sunshine21 02-23-2013 06:56 AM

If they take same where close to 1800 ismore than fair deal

brentstone2 02-23-2013 07:32 AM

I bought a 2013 Sport a few weeks ago. I got 4k off sticker, that was the best price I could find. I walked away from about 8 jeeps at different dealers. I was a cash buyer but I had to finance over 10k to get the deal. I can pay it off after 3 payments, I guess they get a kick back from the bank for the loan. Hope this helps, good luck.

daggo66 02-23-2013 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brentstone2 (Post 3408622)
I bought a 2013 Sport a few weeks ago. I got 4k off sticker, that was the best price I could find. I walked away from about 8 jeeps at different dealers. I was a cash buyer but I had to finance over 10k to get the deal. I can pay it off after 3 payments, I guess they get a kick back from the bank for the loan. Hope this helps, good luck.

$ off sticker means nothing. Paying casg is not an incentive to a dealer, in fact it's just the opposite. When you finance, they get their money right away. When you pay cash, they have to account for mountaind of paperwork.

bearfilm 02-23-2013 08:06 AM

I am not sure why you persist with the same dealer if they are not talking to you?
Bottom line in negotiating a car:
1. do not make the trade in offer until after you have set the price for the car you are buying.
2. always be ready to walk away
3. watch the closing paperwork like a hawk. Dealers know that they can give you a 1000 off up front and stick it in the back end... be scrupulous on that paperwork because they know that once you are signing, you will stay with it even if there were changes.
4. buy from a fair price dealership and save the hassle of negotiations.

caninecop 02-23-2013 08:16 AM

I just purchased a new vehicle using these folks https://carwoo.com/ I was able to get a better price than using USAA or Costco. What I like about this one you can do all this from your computer.

MCortesesq 02-23-2013 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave S
The way I did it was to email several dealers in my area. In the email I mentioned that I was a Tread Lightly member, had no trade-in, and had my own financing. I asked for their best out-the-door price minus tax & title. This should get you to 1% below invoice at the minimum. I had a couple of dealers that were lower than TL pricing, I then negotiated with them and ended up at ~4% under invoice. Once I had my lowest offer, I went back to the dealer near my house that I wanted to work with and started the negotiations there. If they do not want to negotiate, walk away. Some dealers count on the emotional attachment and the "gotta have it now" instant gratification that a lot of buyers have to sell vehicles. I find that working with dealers remotely eliminates the emotions and lets you approach the deal from a position of strength. Do your research, understand what your options are and go from there.

This is what I did as well. The key is to include all of the dealers emails in the "To" field so they know that you're playing the field. When you get a response, send it out to everyone and see who will beat it. It's kind of like a reverse auction. Make sure the prices quoted include the dealer fees so you're comparing apples to apples. This got me 5.6% under invoice.

Steeljag 02-23-2013 08:58 AM

All good advice above. Also, is it a single salesperson that is not returning your calls and or e-mails? I dont know the time frame involved, buts its possible something may have happened to that sales person.

If its a dealership that you want to work with, call them and ask for a sales manager and explain the situation.

Good luck and don't let the shopping / buying experience ruin your Jeep experience!

watson 02-23-2013 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tboy58

I always go to dealership, drive vehicle, get their numbers, then walk away! The dealer understands the emotional attachment one gets immediately with the vehicle they want. If you are not willing to walk away, you will pay more than you need to.

Exactly. This is the best way.

panthermark 02-23-2013 09:35 AM

I simply emailed several dealers in an area with the exact options that I wanted, let them know I was contacting multiple dealers, and also told them I had an affiliate discount. I explained that I understood how the discount worked, and I was looking for the their best and final OTD offer.

I had the agreed upon price of my vehicle before I ever stepped foot in the dealership.

Now, the trade-in....that is where the real work starts.

jvmoney 02-23-2013 09:35 AM

I agree with a few others, go there, drive it and then walk away. They will be calling regularly. But when I bought mine, negotiated my trade first then presented my below invoice pricing deal my company offered. Walked out with little hassle that way.

panthermark 02-23-2013 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCortesesq (Post 3408770)
This is what I did as well. The key is to include all of the dealers emails in the "To" field so they know that you're playing the field. When you get a response, send it out to everyone and see who will beat it. It's kind of like a reverse auction. Make sure the prices quoted include the dealer fees so you're comparing apples to apples. This got me 5.6% under invoice.

:thumb:

musicforme 02-23-2013 03:35 PM

Here is the exact text I sent to roughly ten different dealers in the Phoenix area. I removed the details about my specific Jeep preference since they aren't important to your situation. I used the "Contact Us" type of link on each dealer's web site to send the message.

My phone started ringing about 30 minutes after contacting the first dealer. I ended up around 2.5% under invoice.

Quote:


Please route this message to the Fleet Manager.

Good Afternoon Sir / Madam,

I'm in the early stages of being in the market to purchase a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited with Chrysler Affiliate pricing through my employer (Freeport McMoRan Copper & Gold). I am very well informed regarding the additional holdback dealers receive when using the Chrysler Affiliate program. My preferences in color in order are white, black, or billet.

I'm looking to purchase a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited no more than 2% under invoice with minimal documentation fees with the following following options:

hoopster3 02-25-2013 10:50 PM

I have taken some of the advice that has been offered. I have switched to a different dealer and am getting better results already. Here is what's on the table so far for an Unlimited Sport:

Connectivity package
Convenience package
Max Tow package
side steps
anti-slip
XM radio
3 piece hard top
auto

It has every option I'm looking for and is sitting on the lot in a color choice I prefer.

MSRP: $33,030
Invoice; $31,634
My price: $31,392

Is that a decent deal? I'm heading in tomorrow to see what I can workout for a trade in...

legitposter 02-25-2013 11:25 PM

My wife and I didn't get a good deal with our wrangler... But we got our wrangler! :):):) that's all we cared about. I mean seriously, is a couple hundred bucks going to make or break the next 6-10 years of your life?

So anyways, I also think wranglers are hot items and dealers don't have to do deals as much with them. When I bought my Compass in late 2011 the dealer was harrassing me to buy it and throwing offers at me non stop. When I bought my wrangler 2 weeks ago the dealer pretty much said take it or leave it, because someone else will take it within a few days anyways. I believe him, because when we looked at a remaining new Liberty he started throwing great offers at us. In fact he went down to $24k on a fully loaded Liberty JET. As soon as we started looking at wranglers again it was back to no deals.

Just go in there and buy it already.

Cole Trickle 02-25-2013 11:52 PM

I think it depends on the area...

I have found a dealer that is willing to go 3% under invoice with a to membership.

A refferal I had to a VP of a dealership didn't get me squat. He was very nice and flat out told me he can't do 3% under so he had to pass.

Waiting on one more quote from a owner of a dealership that my buddy is friends with. If they don't come back with better than 3% I'm done shopping.

Honestly I think a lot of people pay close to sticker in so cal. For me its the chase of a good deal...love it and the way I figure it is if I save $2000 I just got a 430n/heated seats/4:10 and connectivity group for free compared to the guy that didn't do his research.

panthermark 02-26-2013 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopster3 (Post 3420896)
I have taken some of the advice that has been offered. I have switched to a different dealer and am getting better results already. Here is what's on the table so far for an Unlimited Sport:

Connectivity package
Convenience package
Max Tow package
side steps
anti-slip
XM radio
3 piece hard top
auto

It has every option I'm looking for and is sitting on the lot in a color choice I prefer.

MSRP: $33,030
Invoice; $31,634
My price: $31,392

Is that a decent deal? I'm heading in tomorrow to see what I can workout for a trade in...

I guess it depends on your area...but that is barely 1% below invoice. Not horrible, but it is possible to do a lot better.

Did you ever check to see if you are an affiliate member or sign up for Tread Lightly? That will save you several hundred dollars. It is much easier to get to 3% (or more) below invoice with an affiliate discount.

hoopster3 02-26-2013 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthermark (Post 3422082)
I guess it depends on your area...but that is barely 1% below invoice. Not horrible, but it is possible to do a lot better.

Did you ever check to see if you are an affiliate member or sign up for Tread Lightly? That will save you several hundred dollars. It is much easier to get to 3% (or more) below invoice with an affiliate discount.

My price quote was with the Tread Lightly! discount. What is the affiliate discount?

twarner776 02-26-2013 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicforme (Post 3410055)
Here is the exact text I sent to roughly ten different dealers in the Phoenix area. I removed the details about my specific Jeep preference since they aren't important to your situation. I used the "Contact Us" type of link on each dealer's web site to send the message.

My phone started ringing about 30 minutes after contacting the first dealer. I ended up around 2.5% under invoice.
Please route this message to the Fleet Manager.

Good Afternoon Sir / Madam,

I'm in the early stages of being in the market to purchase a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited with Chrysler Affiliate pricing through my employer (Freeport McMoRan Copper & Gold). I am very well informed regarding the additional holdback dealers receive when using the Chrysler Affiliate program. My preferences in color in order are white, black, or billet.

I'm looking to purchase a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited no more than 2% under invoice with minimal documentation fees with the following following options:


Telling them the amount under invoice (or any amount for that matter) your willing to pay is never a good idea. Right off the bat they know all they have to do is get around 2% under and they just sold you a Jeep. The difference between 2% and 2.5% on a base rubicon 4 dr is only $164.71. I would imagine each of the 10 dealers came back between 2-2.5 because they knew thats what you will pay.

panthermark 02-26-2013 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopster3 (Post 3422124)
My price quote was with the Tread Lightly! discount. What is the affiliate discount?

Same thing....

The Tread Lightly is just one of the affiliates of the program (for instance, I get the discount through my employer).

Here is the secret...
Holdback on a Wrangler is 3% of invoice. So 3% below invoice without any type of Chrysler rebate is basically dealer cost. There are other incentives from Chrysler to help, but that is the easy way to look at numbers.

With that discount, the dealer is rebated 2% of invoice minus $75 from Chrysler. The dealer is supposed to pass 1% to the customer (thus 1% below invoice) and keep 1%.

So that 1% below invoice that you are being offered is closer to 1% ABOVE invoice for the dealer.

That is why Pat advertises at 2% below invoice with Tread Lightly. He has explained before...you get 2% below invoice, he is able to keep most of the holdback, and everyone wins. He knows it is possible to do better if you haggle with other dealers, but he is trying to make an easy haggle free transaction where everyone makes out well with no games or surprises.

Remember, the Tread Lightly benefit means you cannot be charged more than 1% below invoice. There is nothing stopping you from getting a better price once you know how it works.

Not sure where you are located, but you basically already have a better standing offer from Pat@Fields at 2% below invoice without having to haggle one bit.


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