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-   -   First oil change on my Pentastar 3.6 (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/first-oil-change-on-my-pentastar-3-6-a-232067.html)

Miser 04-01-2013 06:26 PM

First oil change on my Pentastar 3.6
 
I felt that it was time to do my first oil change and did it at 800 miles. Probably a little early, but I like to error on the side of caution.
I know that their has been some different opinions as to how much oil it holds after the draining. Some say 6qts and others say less than 6qts. So I tried to perform this change as instructed. First out came the oil filter and next I removed the filler cap. This should break the vacuum and allow all of the oil to follow out the drain plug. So next I took out the plug, but was surprised to see that it wasn't very tight. The book says 22 pounds of torque, it was lucky if it had half of that. It took the better part of a hour for all of the oil to drain out and stop dripping. I did forget to mention that I had just made a approx. 40 mile trip so the oil was at operating temperature when I drained it. I was glad to see that the old oil filter did not have any shavings and I only noticed after I pulled the pleats apart just a few sparkly items barely noticeable to the naked eye. The magnate on the drain plug was clean.
I installed the new filter purchased from my Dealer for $5.75 and torqued it to 18ft pounds. Next I installed 6 quarts of conventional Valvoline 5w30 motor oil. I went with 5w30, rather than 5w20, because here in Arizona, our asphalt temperatures are extremely high radiating up word into the oil pan, probably causing higher oil temperature than in most areas. My Dealer Service Manager agreed with me on this and approved of it. This oil does meet the Chrysler specs of MS-6395. I am not a fan of synthetics so I will stay with my conventional oil. Those of you that like synthetics, then go for it, because it's your nickel. I started it up and no leaks. It has sat for about 8 hours since the change and I just checked the level and it is right on the full mark, but not over full. I am now convinced, that if you drain everything properly then 6 quarts is what it takes. FYI.:thumb:

BadOleRoss 04-01-2013 06:36 PM

If you are going to be changing your oil every 800 miles (I know you wont really do this) you might be interested in this little device. I change mine every 5000 miles (crazy right?) and this is very handy. I have a hose that plugs on the end and everything goes straight into an old oil container.

Miser 04-01-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadOleRoss (Post 3580814)
If you are going to be changing your oil every 800 miles (I know you wont really do this) you might be interested in this little device. I change mine every 5000 miles (crazy right?) and this is very handy. I have a hose that plugs on the end and everything goes straight into an old oil container.

Thank you, I should have clarified, that my first oil change was just to get rid of the break-in oils and to get a new oil filter installed.
My second oil change will be at 3000 miles and every 5000 miles thereafter. :thumb:
I do like your idea of the hose, which would save the mess that I go through taking it down to ORILEYS Auto parts, who disposes of it for me.
Do you have a picture of it?

dieselgiant 04-01-2013 06:48 PM

You should have left in the oil in longer. The engine is probably not broken in fully yet and the break-in oil is not the same as conventional oil.

legitposter 04-01-2013 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselgiant (Post 3580853)
You should have left in the oil in longer. The engine is probably not broken in fully yet and the break-in oil is not the same as conventional oil.

Let's not scare the poor guy. Most breakin will be done within the first 400 miles anyways. If a person changes oil at 800 and does routine oil changes after that then its very safe to assume that their engine will last long enough for something else to be signal the end of the vehicle's life. Since its a modern chrysler, it most certainly will have an end-of-life due to a failure, eventually.

dieselgiant 04-01-2013 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legitposter (Post 3580899)
Let's not scare the poor guy. Most breakin will be done within the first 400 miles anyways. If a person changes oil at 800 and does routine oil changes after that then its very safe to assume that their engine will last long enough for something else to be signal the end of the vehicle's life. Since its a modern chrysler, it most certainly will have an end-of-life due to a failure, eventually.


Yea but 800 miles is waaaaay to early. The engine will eventually break in but the manual even states to operate the engine pretty hard (not abuse it) so their machining and cylinder finishing requires the oil and proper use.
However your probably correct in the most people wont keep their vehicle long enough to see the engine fail.:doh:

Miser 04-01-2013 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselgiant (Post 3580853)
You should have left in the oil in longer. The engine is probably not broken in fully yet and the break-in oil is not the same as conventional oil.

I had heard that the oil from the factory has a special additive in it for break-in. My Dealer Service Manager, whom just recently toured the Jeep Wrangler plant says that is not correct. The factory installs conventional 5w20 in these engines when new. He also stated that these engines require very little break-in if any. I'm just quoting what I was told so I am not the least bit concerned about it.
I have used this practice of installing new oil and filter in my engines ASAP, because there is a certain amount of contamination that still remains from the new castings and mating surfaces. Flushing it out is the only way that I know of to achieve as clean of a oil flow as possible.
Thank you for passing on to me your opinion.

Miser 04-01-2013 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselgiant (Post 3580913)
Yea but 800 miles is waaaaay to early. The engine will eventually break in but the manual even states to operate the engine pretty hard (not abuse it) so their machining and cylinder finishing requires the oil and proper use.
However your probably correct in the most people wont keep their vehicle long enough to see the engine fail.:doh:

I broke it in per the guideline's of the owners manual. I did not baby it, but rather got on it at times and made sure that the RPM was also varying ongoing. I am confident that it is broke in properly, it has not used any oil and the tail pipe is nice and clean not oily. This engine is also very quiet at start up, not noisy like some that I heard when road testing at some of the Dealers.
I appreciate your concern!:thumb:

BadOleRoss 04-01-2013 07:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Miser (Post 3580837)
Do you have a picture of it?

I dont go out and crawl under the Jeep to take a picture of an oil plug for just anyone! I small piece of 3/8" ID hose plugs right onto the fitting! If you do serious wheeling they have styles that sit up higher to the oil pan.

Miser 04-01-2013 08:05 PM

I really appreciate you taking the picture! That oil dispenser plug is a great idea!
I do some 4 wheeling, but nothing extreme. That will be installed on mine at my next oil change.
Maybe you could get a patent on it and then sell the patent to Chrysler?

SilverSport 04-01-2013 08:14 PM

There is no vacuum to release when draining the oil. With the engine shut down the oil in the filter canister drains back down to the pan within seconds. I don't know who started this myth.

The Pentastar is factory filled with a quality conventional oil, but it isn't a break-in oil.

m998dna 04-01-2013 08:24 PM

What's a good time to pour synthetic? ... Something like Pennzoil Platinum 10w-30...

.

SilverSport 04-01-2013 08:40 PM

Anytime.

Billet13 04-01-2013 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSport (Post 3581221)
There is no vacuum to release when draining the oil. With the engine shut down the oil in the filter canister drains back down to the pan within seconds. I don't know who started this myth.

The Pentastar is factory filled with a quality conventional oil, but it isn't a break-in oil.

x2:thumb:

Txrdstr 04-01-2013 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m998dna (Post 3581300)
What's a good time to pour synthetic? ... Something like Pennzoil Platinum 10w-30...

.

As soon as you get it home from the dealer!

RoadiJeff 04-01-2013 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miser (Post 3580781)
I felt that it was time to do my first oil change and did it at 800 miles. Probably a little early, but I like to error on the side of caution.

Thanks for sharing. I had my first one done recently at 1,000 miles. I used to work in a Chrysler assembly plant and they're not exactly an operating room clean environment. I wanted to get rid of any manufacturing impurities before my normal oil change intervals that I plan to follow. The dealer paid for it all anyway.

BTW, how'd you get such a good price on a filter? $5.75 is about 1/2 of what they sell for even at Autozone. Dealer parts department prices are usually higher than auto parts stores.

Miser 04-01-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadiJeff (Post 3581640)
Thanks for sharing. I had my first one done recently at 1,000 miles. I used to work in a Chrysler assembly plant and they're not exactly an operating room clean environment. I wanted to get rid of any manufacturing impurities before my normal oil change intervals that I plan to follow. The dealer paid for it all anyway.

BTW, how'd you get such a good price on a filter? $5.75 is about 1/2 of what they sell for even at Autozone. Dealer parts department prices are usually higher than auto parts stores.

O.k., I'm looking at my invoice. I purchased 2 from Moore Chrysler Jeep in Peoria Arizona. My invoice says Part number/Description 68079744-AB FILTER EN 9057006 list price $5.70. Sorry about that, I was off 5 cents. I thought also that it was a good price so I bought two (2).

You may want to check the price of that part number at your local Jeep Dealer.:thumb:

I was paying over $6.00 each for the Wix filters that I was using in my 2003 wrangler 4.0 engine.

m998dna 04-01-2013 09:58 PM

An old story about conventional vs synthetic...

Many moons ago when Mobil 1 was released, I couldn't sell that shit for nothing. Then Porsche made Mobil 1 the factory fill on the 1974 911 Turbo and then sales started to pick up. At the time, I ran nothing but Valvoline Racing Oil conventional in my 1969 Camaro SS L78 ... and all my other muscle cars owned since the '70's.

On the flip side, I burned nothing but Bel-Ray synthetic oil in all my motocross race bikes.. which included; '71 250 Bultaco, '76 250 Suzuki RM, '78 450 Maico, and one street bike... my precious 1979 Yamaha RD400D Daytona Special.

Clearly, Bel-Ray performed better in my 2 strokes... never once fouled plugs and the pistons would last forever with minimal carbon build up and blow by. Unlike what conventional oil did to my 2 strokes before synthetic became the gold standard for 2 stroke engines.

It took me decades to apply the same logic to 4 stroke engines ... I don't know why other than it was a paradigm shift that never really took hold. I guess if I had to replace fouled plugs all the time, I would be following the same logic as the 2 stroke crowd.

Food for thought...

.

Miser 04-01-2013 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSport (Post 3581221)
There is no vacuum to release when draining the oil. With the engine shut down the oil in the filter canister drains back down to the pan within seconds. I don't know who started this myth.

The Pentastar is factory filled with a quality conventional oil, but it isn't a break-in oil.

Please keep in mind that I am just in a learning mode, regarding this 3.6 engine.
I certainly agree with you on the oil. It's a conventional 5w20, or 5w30, but there is no break-in additive in it. So I am glad that I changed my oil when I did. Maybe a little early, but so what.
Now for the vacuum issue. One of our Forum members had a video on the proper procedure for changing the oil and filter. So that is were I heard of the vacuum being mentioned. SilverSport, I am not saying that you are wrong, but if vacuum doesn't hold the oil in the filter, then there has to be a check valve or something to keep oil retained in the filter when the engine is turned off. Just think about it, if it drained back every time, then our engine would be experiencing somewhat of a dry start at every start up. Now I do realize that the internal engine bearings, lifters and other component's do retain some oil on there own, but would Chrysler really design a system where the oil drains back at every shut off, WOW that is scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused:

m998dna 04-01-2013 10:06 PM

Most modern oil filters have anti-drain back valves... some work better than others.

.

Miser 04-01-2013 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m998dna (Post 3581789)
An old story about conventional vs synthetic...

Many moons ago when Mobil 1 was released, I couldn't sell that shit for nothing. Then Porsche made Mobil 1 the factory fill on the 1974 911 Turbo and then sales started to pick up. At the time, I ran nothing but Valvoline Racing Oil conventional in my 1969 Camaro SS L78 ... and all my other muscle cars owned since the '70's.

On the flip side, I burned nothing but Bel-Ray synthetic oil in all my motocross race bikes.. which included; '71 250 Bultaco, '76 250 Suzuki RM, '78 450 Maico, and one street bike... my precious 1979 Yamaha RD400D Daytona Special.

Clearly, Bel-Ray performed better in my 2 strokes... never once fouled plugs and the pistons would last forever with minimal carbon build up and blow by. Unlike what conventional oil did to my 2 strokes before synthetic became the gold standard for 2 stroke engines.

It took me decades to apply the same logic to 4 stroke engines ... I don't know why other than it was a paradigm shift that never really took hold. I guess if I had to replace fouled plugs all the time, I would be following the same logic as the 2 stroke crowd.

Food for thought...

.

There are pros and cons regarding synthetics and the same with conventional. This is a topic of discussion that could go on forever. This is why I am parked on the statement of my preference is conventional and those that like synthetics, then go for it, because it is your nickel.
I have found in past discussions that those of use that like conventional are not going to change our minds and the same for those that like synthetics so it's really a mute point, but thank you for your input!:thumb:

m998dna 04-01-2013 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miser (Post 3581856)
There are pros and cons regarding synthetics and the same with conventional. This is a topic of discussion that could go on forever. This is why I am parked on the statement of my preference is conventional and those that like synthetics, then go for it, because it is your nickel.
I have found in past discussions that those of use that like conventional are not going to change our minds and the same for those that like synthetics so it's really a mute point, but thank you for your input!:thumb:

No problem...

.

Ponderosa 04-01-2013 10:40 PM

800 miles? I think people just like to throw money at the new ride. My dealer (also in Phoenix metro) said to bring it back at 3000 for the first oil change on them and then follow the light after that. That is what I am going to do.

SilverSport 04-01-2013 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miser (Post 3581806)
Please keep in mind that I am just in a learning mode, regarding this 3.6 engine.
I certainly agree with you on the oil. It's a conventional 5w20, or 5w30, but there is no break-in additive in it. So I am glad that I changed my oil when I did. Maybe a little early, but so what.
Now for the vacuum issue. One of our Forum members had a video on the proper procedure for changing the oil and filter. So that is were I heard of the vacuum being mentioned. SilverSport, I am not saying that you are wrong, but if vacuum doesn't hold the oil in the filter, then there has to be a check valve or something to keep oil retained in the filter when the engine is turned off. Just think about it, if it drained back every time, then our engine would be experiencing somewhat of a dry start at every start up. Now I do realize that the internal engine bearings, lifters and other component's do retain some oil on there own, but would Chrysler really design a system where the oil drains back at every shut off, WOW that is scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused:

You impress me as a fellow who has some experience under their belt. So lets think about this for a minute. Suppose the filter canister held oil when your engine was shutoff. You come back later and restart the engine. Until the oil pump picks up oil from the pan and pushes it through the system to the filter, the oil in the canister isn't going anywhere anyway.

I suggest tomorrow morning you pull the cap and filter and see if there is any oil in the filter housing.

MikeK46 04-02-2013 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponderosa (Post 3582058)
800 miles? I think people just like to throw money at the new ride. My dealer (also in Phoenix metro) said to bring it back at 3000 for the first oil change on them and then follow the light after that. That is what I am going to do.

I'm surprised that blindly following the advice of perceived "authority figures" hasn't already taught you any lessons. Rest assured it will one day.

The dealer also says that a lifter is the issue after the defective driver's side head triggers a CEL. I can keep going about other examples where what a dealership says means absolutely nothing, but I think you get the point :thumb:

My post isn't directed toward your oil change interval, but rather to the reason behind your choice. Use good judgement, logic, common sense, and multiple facts (and opinions) from various unbiased sources. Making decisions based on one person's input (especially one who could care less what happens to you or your vehicle) is quite a risk you'll be taking. Don't assume that being an authority figure automatically makes someone all-knowing and incapable of being wrong. Even doctors make plenty of medical mistakes.

Gort 04-02-2013 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSport (Post 3581221)
There is no vacuum to release when draining the oil. With the engine shut down the oil in the filter canister drains back down to the pan within seconds. I don't know who started this myth.

For what it's worth, there was a thread a few days back asking what torque to use on the 3.6 oil filter housing cap. In that thread, someone posted a PDF with the oil change procedure for the Pentastars. It resembles something from Chrysler although it doesn't actually have any identifying info on it.

Here's a link to the post.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/tor...ml#post3564229

In that document, there's a section that states

"CAUTION: When performing an engine oil change, the oil filter cap must be removed. Removing the oil filter cap releases oil held within the oil filter cavity and allows it to drain into the sump. Failure to remove the cap prior to reinstallation of the drain plug will not allow complete draining of the used engine oil."

Granted, it doesn't say there's a vacuum, though.

I'd be curious to learn where the document originated.

Miser 04-02-2013 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSport (Post 3582388)
You impress me as a fellow who has some experience under their belt. So lets think about this for a minute. Suppose the filter canister held oil when your engine was shutoff. You come back later and restart the engine. Until the oil pump picks up oil from the pan and pushes it through the system to the filter, the oil in the canister isn't going anywhere anyway.

I suggest tomorrow morning you pull the cap and filter and see if there is any oil in the filter housing.

My background was in mining heavy equipment, such as 300 ton haulage trucks and before I retired I was the heavy equipment manager for the largest contractor in the State of Arizona.
As for Jeeps, well I have owned three 1974 CJ5 304 v8, 2003 TJ 4.0 and now my pride and joy 2013 Rubicon. Just because I have 45 years in working in the mechanical industry, doesn't mean that I understand todays latest technology like the 3.6 engine. This is why I ask questions of those that I hope know the correct answers. Obviously all of the answers are not accurate, but I really think that these Forum members are sincere and feel that their answers are all correct and are trying to help!
Getting back to the oil filter, well I understand your point, which is well taken, but if at least the oil filter canister stayed full, then the lag time of refilling the canister would be eliminated and that would be a plus. I don't need to be looking back into my oil filter canister, as I believe what you are saying is accurate.
This thread was only intended to confirm 6 quarts is the correct quantity when changing your oil and filter. But has extended way out and beyond with some quality additional topics.
I thank all of you Forum members for your input as it is helping me to better understand my new Jeeps 3.6!!!!!!!!!!!:wavey:

Miser 04-02-2013 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gort (Post 3582637)
For what it's worth, there was a thread a few days back asking what torque to use on the 3.6 oil filter housing cap. In that thread, someone posted a PDF with the oil change procedure for the Pentastars. It resembles something from Chrysler although it doesn't actually have any identifying info on it.

Here's a link to the post.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/tor...ml#post3564229

In that document, there's a section that states

"CAUTION: When performing an engine oil change, the oil filter cap must be removed. Removing the oil filter cap releases oil held within the oil filter cavity and allows it to drain into the sump. Failure to remove the cap prior to reinstallation of the drain plug will not allow complete draining of the used engine oil."

Granted, it doesn't say there's a vacuum, though.

I'd be curious to learn where the document originated.

Gort, thank you, because that is the same instruction sheet that I seen.
I don't know where it originated from, or how accurate it is, but following the oil change instructions worked for me!
It's like if you such water up into a straw and then hold your tongue over the end of it, unless it can get air, it will not drain back. I am definitely going to do some more research on this issue............

Old Dogger 04-02-2013 07:26 AM

Change your oil on a new engine at 500 miles, then 2000 miles and then 5000 miles thereafter.
This will clean up your engines oil galleys and help to create longevity down the road!
There is nothing special about the oil that the factory installs, that one is just a myth!
Oil does stay in your filter canister when your engine is turned off, just another myth that it doesn't. Air does not get to it so it will be retained in the canister.
It doesn't matter Synthetic, conventional, brand, weight, just change it!

SilverSport 04-02-2013 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gort (Post 3582637)
For what it's worth, there was a thread a few days back asking what torque to use on the 3.6 oil filter housing cap. In that thread, someone posted a PDF with the oil change procedure for the Pentastars. It resembles something from Chrysler although it doesn't actually have any identifying info on it.

Here's a link to the post.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/tor...ml#post3564229

In that document, there's a section that states

"CAUTION: When performing an engine oil change, the oil filter cap must be removed. Removing the oil filter cap releases oil held within the oil filter cavity and allows it to drain into the sump. Failure to remove the cap prior to reinstallation of the drain plug will not allow complete draining of the used engine oil."

Granted, it doesn't say there's a vacuum, though.

I'd be curious to learn where the document originated.

That document looks like it came out of a service manual?
FWIW. the engine cover and oil pan in that document look nothing like mine.

I originally heard this theory months ago and being curious I pulled the cap and found no oil in the canister. What I did find was the filter sets on the center post and there is a spring at the bottom. With the filter in place and cap tightened down oil is forced thru the filter instead of leaking around it.

Last night, when Miser posted about changing his oil, I checked again, it was about 6 hours since I last drove my Jeep. When I pulled the cap and filet there was trace oil still on the filter but it wasn't dripping as if the oil in the housing had just been released.

When I do oil changes, I pull the drain plug and then go up top and swap the filter. When I loosen the cap, there is no temporary increase in oil flow out the drain either.

If oil is staying inside the filter housing, I'm not seeing it. That's why I believe this is a myth.


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