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-   -   Driveline angle too much? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f218/driveline-angle-too-much-235243.html)

denisbaldwin 04-14-2013 03:27 PM

Driveline angle too much?
 
I got my new CV driveshaft installed today. It's long enough and it seems a good fit. However, now that it's in, I'm hearing a clicking/grinding noise as I turn the shaft. Looks like it's binding up either at the CV or at the axle.

What should I do about this?

Drop the skidplate an inch or so? Change the angle of the 8.8 so it perches back and up? CVs at both ends?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8254/8...dc7f442f_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8388/8...3c33ec4f_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8539/8...8e917447_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8539/8...4d79a9b4_b.jpg


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/8...4d5f96fc_b.jpgAny advice would be appreciated.

Denis

sinbob 04-14-2013 03:38 PM

Do you have or thought about a 1" motor mount lift?????
I have 1" motor mount lift that tilts the rear of the xfer down and reduces the angle.

Michigunman 04-14-2013 03:49 PM

I'm no expert but that pinion angle looks way off. The drive shaft should be close to inline with the angle of the pinion. Your rear axle needs to be rotated up. I'm sure others more knowledgeable will be along.

Michigunman 04-14-2013 03:51 PM

Like this.

http://www.4xshaft.com/images/cv_angle.gif

denisbaldwin 04-14-2013 04:16 PM

I can rotate the rear axle up about 1" (by moving the plate and ubolts), so I'll do that this week. I wanted to replace the u-bolts anyway, as they're a little short.

I also think I'll do a 1" t-case drop. Since I have the belly up skid, I think that is pushing the front up too much and is causing the hard angle.

My Jeep already has the 1" motor mount increase. Was done by the previous owner when he did the 3" body lift.

Denis

0III0forlife 04-14-2013 05:35 PM

Yep Denis, that 8.8 looks cool in there painted my favorite color lol, but it does need clocked up to be more inline with the shaft. Look up stu olsen's website, he has all the measurements and degree angles to set up the 8.8 rear. They are for a TJ, but the angles are the same on a YJ.

GoldenSahara00 04-14-2013 05:38 PM

I would get the pinion angle where it needs to be then check back. Turning it up will reduce both angles on both the CV and axle end U joint, so it should help.

YJ fanatic 04-14-2013 05:58 PM

So the pinion should point directly at the yoke on the t-case?

Also Denis, how is the quality of that Tattons shaft? I'll be ordering one next weekend most likely. Doing my 8.8 swap and SYE then.

Norcal_Chris 04-14-2013 06:57 PM

I posted before about a flat belly and stock rear axle location binding the cv shaft but nobody belived me. Is that at ride height or full droop? You are going to blow up the centering ball in your cv in very short order with it set up like that. I did thesame thing.

GoldenSahara00 04-14-2013 07:05 PM

I am hoping to tilt my tcase down as much as possible when I set up my cross member to hopefully alleviate any binding. From what I have figured out with the tcase angle with a mml and the extra length of an aftermarket shaft on a sye, the angles are gona be darn close. You guys are both running like 4.5-5 inches of lift however.

4Jeepn 04-14-2013 07:13 PM

yes rotate the 8.8 more...

denisbaldwin 04-15-2013 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YJ fanatic (Post 3636554)
Also Denis, how is the quality of that Tattons shaft? I'll be ordering one next weekend most likely. Doing my 8.8 swap and SYE then.

Seems top notch so far. Very heavy compared to the stock shaft. Nice long spline. Uses top end Spicer joints. Seems like a good pick so far.

Denis

denisbaldwin 04-15-2013 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norcal_Chris (Post 3636812)
I posted before about a flat belly and stock rear axle location binding the cv shaft but nobody belived me. Is that at ride height or full droop?

This is at ride height. Definitely going to change both the angle of the 8.8 and drop the T-case.

Denis

O_M_Jeep 04-15-2013 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisbaldwin (Post 3636036)

Tatton Drivelines are awesome, looks good btw, Tatton makes art. I'm lovin that step, the chain hanging there, I'm guessing thats what that is. great idea.

denisbaldwin 04-15-2013 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O_M_Jeep (Post 3638524)
I'm lovin that step, the chain hanging there, I'm guessing thats what that is. great idea.

Absolutely what it is. At this point, the steps are at about 34" from the ground, way too high to step up on. With the chain step below, one step at 16" and one step up and I'm good to go.

Tyler92yj 04-15-2013 03:38 PM

did u ever post pics of the flat belly skid install

OverkillYJ 04-15-2013 03:50 PM

Your driveline angle looks fine. I do not see a traction bar. Without a traction bar you should be pointing about 5-6 degrees below the TC yoke. Even with a traction bar, with SOA you should be about 3 degrees below pointing directly at the TC Yoke. When your Jeep is stopped the angle is not as big a concern as when it is under power since the pinion will rise when you hit the gas. The angle is supposed to be crap when you are stopped, as long as when you are moving down the road it is not binding up. If it is binding up going down the road then you would need to raise you driveshaft angle some, but from the pics it would not be much at all.

Also make sure you hit that center joint in the middle of the two U Joints with some grease. The drive shaft I got from Tatton's crapped out the first time I was on a trail and hit water for a couple of minutes because it was not greased enough when I got it. It lasted about 20-30 miles and died. I now grease it every time I hit the trails since replacing the whole head assembly.

Also, after all that hard work and time you put into that SOA, you really dont want to skip the traction bar. If you are just cruising around it isnt a big deal, but if you want it to take abuse a traction bar will make a huge difference. Especially when pulling people out or hitting the gas hard in 4 Low.

denisbaldwin 04-15-2013 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler92yj (Post 3640256)
did u ever post pics of the flat belly skid install

Didn't post pics as there's not much to it. It bolts in the stock location. The only thing I had to do was drill the holes for the trans mount to bolt to. That took a bit of guess and check, but worked out.

Looks like I now have to put in a t-case drop kit so I'll get some more pics of it after that.

denisbaldwin 04-15-2013 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverkillYJ (Post 3640310)
Your driveline angle looks fine. I do not see a traction bar. Without a traction bar you should be pointing about 5-6 degrees below the TC yoke. Even with a traction bar, with SOA you should be about 3 degrees below pointing directly at the TC Yoke. When your Jeep is stopped the angle is not as big a concern as when it is under power since the pinion will rise when you hit the gas. The angle is supposed to be crap when you are stopped, as long as when you are moving down the road it is not binding up. If it is binding up going down the road then you would need to raise you driveshaft angle some, but from the pics it would not be much at all.

I think I'm a bit too off point for this to work out the way it is, if only because it's bound up just trying to roll it around my driveway. The angle is so tight that just getting the CV to bolt in was a chore because it's too steep. I have a feeling I'm not that far off, and the motor mount lift (1" from Brown Dog) and the T-Case drop (1" from MORE) and going to a shorter trans mount (3" poly down to 2" rubber) should fix those issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverkillYJ (Post 3640310)
Also make sure you hit that center joint in the middle of the two U Joints with some grease. The drive shaft I got from Tatton's crapped out the first time I was on a trail and hit water for a couple of minutes because it was not greased enough when I got it. It lasted about 20-30 miles and died. I now grease it every time I hit the trails since replacing the whole head assembly.

Noted. I actually just went through everything on the Jeep that had a zerk fitting and pumped them completely full, driveshaft included. There was way too many of these (all new steering, new springs, etc) so I ended up going through 3 full tubes to get it done.. but this should be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverkillYJ (Post 3640310)
Also, after all that hard work and time you put into that SOA, you really dont want to skip the traction bar. If you are just cruising around it isnt a big deal, but if you want it to take abuse a traction bar will make a huge difference. Especially when pulling people out or hitting the gas hard in 4 Low.

Done. I have the MORE traction bar built and ready to go in. I wasn't going to weld it in until I'm sure that my driveline angles are perfect. Don't want to have to move it if I'm off. Furthermore, I'm hoping just the fixes I'm doing will fix this angle issue, but if not I'm going to see if I have to move the 8.8 up as well. Hope not... but you never know until it's all moving together.

Denis

GoldenSahara00 04-15-2013 04:55 PM

Do you have an angle finder and can tell us what the angles are and what angle the CV is binding up at? I am just curious for my own use. You need the tcase output angle, driveshaft angle, and pinion angle.

denisbaldwin 04-15-2013 05:56 PM

I do. I'll slap one on this weekend. Just found out the boss has us all working double shifts this week so it'll be the weekend before I have time. This 3AM to 8PM stuff is for the BIRDS.

GoldenSahara00 04-15-2013 06:49 PM

Yeah, that sucks, sorry man. Let me know. I would like to figure out exactly what the functional angles of these CV shafts are. You could always clearance your yoke ears (if I am using the right word) so you're not binding, but the increased angle will still cut down on the U joint life.

Norcal_Chris 04-15-2013 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenSahara00 (Post 3640904)
Yeah, that sucks, sorry man. Let me know. I would like to figure out exactly what the functional angles of these CV shafts are. You could always clearance your yoke ears (if I am using the right word) so you're not binding, but the increased angle will still cut down on the U joint life.

That wont really work. The CV binds in the inner centering ball first, then the yokes. You can do some clearancing to the centering ball housing, but its quite a bit of work.

Here is a small write up on it.
Driveshaft CV Modification for Increased Angle

GoldenSahara00 04-15-2013 07:30 PM

Yes sorry, I didn't know the correct term. Thanks.

Edit: I had been reading up on this the other day because I know I will have a pretty steep driveline with my TT, and was under the impression typically you could expect around 20* of angle on 1310s and you could achieve up to 30+ with a grinder and with doing what you linked. I didn't realize that the centering ball actually bound up first, so thanks for that. I might end up having to clearance mine a little bit.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...angle-cvs.html

OverkillYJ 04-15-2013 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisbaldwin (Post 3640426)
I think I'm a bit too off point for this to work out the way it is, if only because it's bound up just trying to roll it around my driveway. The angle is so tight that just getting the CV to bolt in was a chore because it's too steep. I have a feeling I'm not that far off, and the motor mount lift (1" from Brown Dog) and the T-Case drop (1" from MORE) and going to a shorter trans mount (3" poly down to 2" rubber) should fix those issues.



Noted. I actually just went through everything on the Jeep that had a zerk fitting and pumped them completely full, driveshaft included. There was way too many of these (all new steering, new springs, etc) so I ended up going through 3 full tubes to get it done.. but this should be done.



Done. I have the MORE traction bar built and ready to go in. I wasn't going to weld it in until I'm sure that my driveline angles are perfect. Don't want to have to move it if I'm off. Furthermore, I'm hoping just the fixes I'm doing will fix this angle issue, but if not I'm going to see if I have to move the 8.8 up as well. Hope not... but you never know until it's all moving together.

Denis

Alright, well you dont need to drop the TC. I am SOA +1.5" with no TC drop, and an AX15 swap which made my transmission about 2" longer. An engine lift is not a bad idea though, I have also thought about doing that even though I have no vibes.

The grease fitting I am talking about is the one between the two U-Joints that u need that damn needle fitting for on your grease gun, I have a feeling you already knew that though.

As far as the angle, just measure and go 3 degrees low. If you take it for a spin before you weld in the traction bar you might cause some problems since it will bind once your pinion passes the correct angle and rotates past the maximum angle your driveshaft can handle under power. I welded in my Traction bar and axle perches at the same time and have had no problems following that rule.

GoldenSahara00 04-15-2013 09:36 PM

I agree with the 3 degrees, I have heard that for leaf sprung vehicles and 1-2 on coil suspensions like a TJ.

Norcal_Chris 04-16-2013 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverkillYJ (Post 3641514)
Alright, well you dont need to drop the TC. I am SOA +1.5" with no TC drop, and an AX15 swap which made my transmission about 2" longer.

You dont have a flat belly though do you?

That means his transfer case is almost 4 inches higher than yours in the frame. Its totally different.

denisbaldwin 04-16-2013 02:53 AM

Norcal_Chris makes a good point. All of my stuff fit just fine with the stock plate, but now that I have the belly up, I'm running into binding issues. I want the ground clearance, so I'm going to do what it takes to fix this with the motor mount lift and the drop t-case. Even with the 1" drop, I'm still about 3" above where I was with the stock skid plate.

GoldenSahara00 04-16-2013 06:16 AM

Your tcase is about 9ish inches over stock right now would you say? That is a ton of belly clearance. I will be at 7 w/ my TT. I am hoping your DS can work with the angles present in your situation. You have a standard length SYE on your tcase?

denisbaldwin 04-16-2013 06:30 AM

I'd say you're about right with your guestimate of 9".

I have the JB Conversions Super Shorty, apparently the shortest SYE available.


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