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-   -   5.7l hemi swap (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/5-7l-hemi-swap-235611.html)

ImSickofSnow 04-16-2013 07:37 AM

5.7l hemi swap
 
As some of you know, I became a salesman at a jeep dodge Chrysler dealership and that I'm looking to get a wrangler, whether on this site or not I've been doing a ton of research on wranglers and am really interested in the 5.7l hemi swap. Has anybody done it? Is it worth it? Obviously I know gas will be even worse but what are the pros and cons of this? Remember that this wrangler will be mainly a daily driver.

mike1158 04-16-2013 07:59 AM

I am subscribing. i wanna see where this goes..

BUT ! don't be sp quick to assume the BIG gas mileage drop. My wife has a 2011 Grand Cherokee Limited with the HEMI (yeah its pretty sweet) and she gets about the same mileage as my JK 2 Door. That thing is about 16-17mpg in the city and +/- 20 on the highway.. I've seen 21.5 mpg doing 65 with the cruise on on a easy stretch of highway..
We have driven down to the FL Keys and back twice, about 1,300 mile trip, with her and i Lugage and My hulk of a Bull Terrier in a crate in the back, and we averaged about 20 mpg..running between 70-80 MPH.
IF you can get the full computer to swap with it (i would imagine you'd have to) you will get the ECO mode, which not like on our JKs, actaully means something...when your foot isn't in it, it shuts down 4 cyl and gets real efficient...
Of corse if you OVERLY ENJOY your HEMI, you can forget about mileage....but it's like that with every motor. Guys pontificate about gears, and tire wieght, and lockers, and LSD and on and on..the truth is, the best fuel miser is your right foot.

RKracing 04-16-2013 08:06 AM

There has been more than a few done already over the last 2-3 years. Hit the search up, I'm sure they are in there. :punk:

JTPhoto JK 04-16-2013 08:10 AM

Get the RIPP supercharger.

Hemi swap is in the neighborhood of $10k unless you can get a motor and trans from wrecker and do the labor yourself.
Wrangler will not get as good of mileage as other Hemi equipped vehicles die mostly to aerodynamics. It is said the the only time the MDS kicks in is down hills.

Do some more research and you'll find that the cost for this conversion for a DD is not worth it.

positrak 04-16-2013 08:13 AM

Pros:

1. 400 hp
2. sounds awesome
3. power on demand


Cons:

1. kiss your entire warranty goodbye
2. may need to upgrade drivetrain /components if off roading
3. expensive

If you do a 2011 and under you need to include a new transmission + more than double the install time compared to a 2012 which doesn't require a transmission.

Odd question actually.

Jeep Wrangler JK Hemi 5.7 Liter - YouTube

ImSickofSnow 04-16-2013 08:15 AM

Well, since I work at the dealership, I get an employee discount. Idk what the price would be for parts and labor but I heard its in the neighborhood of 10-15k. I heard about the supercharger but it voids warrantys. I'd rather have the motor installed by the factory and still get all the warrantys.

positrak 04-16-2013 08:20 AM

Interesting. If you can get them to install it (in fact maybe sponsor it with dealer stickers etc.), the price of the engine has dropped dramatically on the 5.7 crate. If you do a 2012 its the swap kit @ 7000 + brand new 5.7 (truck) 3000 + 30 hours labor install +/-everything of course -- you should be able to get the whole sale price through the dealer and a discount on the install rate?

You couldn't be setup better working there and if they are game to assist you.

edit: forgot the take out, deduct 2000-3000 for your engine taken out of course.

ahsumtoy 04-16-2013 09:17 AM

Pay Back
 
I can understand the swap if you want it to sound great, more power, etc. but if you do it for better mileage, the cost of the swap will never make up for mileage. Even if you get 3-4 extra mpg, do the math. You'll never recoup the cost of the Hemi.

mike1158 04-16-2013 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImSickofSnow (Post 3643188)
Well, since I work at the dealership, I get an employee discount. Idk what the price would be for parts and labor but I heard its in the neighborhood of 10-15k. I heard about the supercharger but it voids warrantys. I'd rather have the motor installed by the factory and still get all the warrantys.

Really ? ? ? Chrysler is going to warranty pulling the 3.6 out of a brand new (and i assume it'll be brand new since your talking about warranty) Wrangler..and putting in a "Crate" 5.7 HEMI ? ? I 'd be shocked if this is true. I'm not trying to doubt you but really... why? Why would Chrysler warranty this?
At best i could see them giving a warranty on the motor, if it's a "crate" but i can't see them backing an axle if you waste it, or your tranny if it goes south.
And you also said "I'd rather have the motor installed by the factory".. are you saying you are working on a plan to have this thing roll off the line with the HEMI in it? You must be one HELL of a salesman to have that kinda pull with Chrysler.....

MTH 04-16-2013 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImSickofSnow (Post 3643188)
Well, since I work at the dealership, I get an employee discount. Idk what the price would be for parts and labor but I heard its in the neighborhood of 10-15k. I heard about the supercharger but it voids warrantys. I'd rather have the motor installed by the factory and still get all the warrantys.

Warranties don't get "voided." Rather, they no longer "cover" stuff you change, and they don't "cover" things damaged by stuff you change.

So, as noted above, your factory warranty won't cover a hemi swap.

The factory isn't going to install your hemi. You'll need to have it done afterwards by another company, meaning it will be something you "changed" and won't be covered by your factory warranty. Anything damaged by it also won't be covered.

The motor itself, if it's new, will come with a separate warranty from the engine manufacturer (for a hemi, that's Chrysler). The installation will come with whatever warranty is offered by the installer. Neither of those warranties is the same as the "factory warranty" that comes with your jeep.

Also, if you'll be replacing the transmission as well, you're about $10k shy on your price estimate. If you've got a new auto transmission, then it should work with a hemi, but you're still about $5k shy on your price estimate.

Complete hemi and transmission swaps with new components and a professional shop doing the labor run about $20k to $25k. If you're keeping your old trans, then they're about $15k to $20k.

A Ripp supercharger costs about $5k and a pro install is a few hundred dollars. Power is similar to a 5.7 hemi. In other words, a hemi swap is usually several times the cost of a Ripp install unless you're sophisticated enough to find a used hemi (and maybe transmission) yourself and do the labor yourself as well.

Because it's easy to blame any engine problems on a supercharger (something you "changed"), it is true that your engine will likely no longer be covered under warranty once you install a Ripp. But honestly--you save many thousands over a hemi install, and that would pay for a lot of repairs if they're ever needed.

ImSickofSnow 04-16-2013 10:58 AM

Wow. I've just been bombed with questions. It's not set in stone about anything I've said. I'd like the hemi because quite honestly, the 3.6 doesn't cut it. If I do buy a wrangler, I don't want the engine to shit out. Getting hemi even if the gas is worse is still more worth it for me because at least it should last longer. When I said I wanted it factory installed, I meant that I wanted to swap the engine at my dealerships shop before I take it off the lot. Yeah I know it will be expensive but it will be worth it in many ways, and since I wok here and they can do that work, I'd be getting a real nice chunk of change taken off the price for being an employee.

msubrave 04-16-2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImSickofSnow (Post 3643688)
Wow. I've just been bombed with questions. It's not set in stone about anything I've said. I'd like the hemi because quite honestly, the 3.6 doesn't cut it. If I do buy a wrangler, I don't want the engine to shit out. Getting hemi even if the gas is worse is still more worth it for me because at least it should last longer. When I said I wanted it factory installed, I meant that I wanted to swap the engine at my dealerships shop before I take it off the lot. Yeah I know it will be expensive but it will be worth it in many ways, and since I wok here and they can do that work, I'd be getting a real nice chunk of change taken off the price for being an employee.

Good luck. Let us know how it works out...

MTH 04-16-2013 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImSickofSnow (Post 3643688)
Wow. I've just been bombed with questions. It's not set in stone about anything I've said. I'd like the hemi because quite honestly, the 3.6 doesn't cut it. If I do buy a wrangler, I don't want the engine to shit out. Getting hemi even if the gas is worse is still more worth it for me because at least it should last longer. When I said I wanted it factory installed, I meant that I wanted to swap the engine at my dealerships shop before I take it off the lot. Yeah I know it will be expensive but it will be worth it in many ways, and since I wok here and they can do that work, I'd be getting a real nice chunk of change taken off the price for being an employee.

Do you have any objective evidence that a Hemi will be more reliable than a 3.6? I doubt any exists. A modern engine should go 200k or more without serious issues, whether it's an 8 cylinder or a 6 cylinder.

You should presumably get a discount from the dealership doing the work, but everything I said above about the warranty still applies. The factory warranty isn't going to cover the new engine, the install, or any damage caused by the new engine. Rather, the engine itself will come with its own warranty from Chrysler, and the dealership (the installer) will warranty the install in whatever way they normally warranty their installs.

The same is true for dealer-installed Mopar lifts. Many folks assume those are covered by the factory warranty because they're a Mopar (i.e., Chrysler) product and are installed by a Chrysler dealer. This is not true.

ky77 04-16-2013 11:59 AM

Interesting thread surprised more hemi conversions aren't done. I understand money is issue but hell most mods on here don't make financial sence either. I looked at both hemi kits and supercharger wanting little more power myself. If power is close to same I'm not sure then I would go supercharged but something about hemi powered jeep just seem so much cooler

jkjeeper06 04-16-2013 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 3643763)

Do you have any objective evidence that a Hemi will be more reliable than a 3.6? I doubt any exists. A modern engine should go 200k or more without serious issues, whether it's an 8 cylinder or a 6 cylinder.

I believe he was comparing the hemi to a supercharged 3.6 when saying the hemi will outlast.

Whether its true or not, many people believe that forced aspiration on a motor meant for natural aspiration will put extra wear on it. It's not hard to make that arguement whether it be the gaskets, valves or lifters, something will wear.

One benefit of the hemi swap is that it'll help the resale a ton more than a supercharger. You'll never break even and the percentage of loss will be greater on the hemi but it'll still be worth more at the end of the day.

Unfortunately there are no high mileage 3.6's let alone supercharged 3.6's out there as its very new so it's hard to see how it will stand up over time stock or boosted

Roshko 04-16-2013 12:16 PM

What do you mean "the 3.6 doesn't cut it"? Have you ever driven a jeep? Let alone the 2012/13. The 3.8 is a dog. The 3.6, not a dog.

3JKs1H1 04-16-2013 12:27 PM

I've done a swap before with a Cummins turbo diesel. Lot of work. If you're going to put a 5.7 in a JK - buy an older JK/JKU for 15K. You can get a donor vehicle with mated engine/trans. You'll need lots of little mods, perhaps a radiator, driveshafts, mounts for tranny and engine, perhaps a fuel tank - computer reflash, etc.

markwoodlief 04-16-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImSickofSnow (Post 3643688)
Wow. I've just been bombed with questions. It's not set in stone about anything I've said. I'd like the hemi because quite honestly, the 3.6 doesn't cut it. If I do buy a wrangler, I don't want the engine to shit out. Getting hemi even if the gas is worse is still more worth it for me because at least it should last longer. When I said I wanted it factory installed, I meant that I wanted to swap the engine at my dealerships shop before I take it off the lot. Yeah I know it will be expensive but it will be worth it in many ways, and since I wok here and they can do that work, I'd be getting a real nice chunk of change taken off the price for being an employee.

for the price of the hemi you could buy about 3-4 new 3.6 motors.. if you are worried about reliability you args wont stand up. Let say a 3.6 will go 100k.. put your hemi money in the bank and buy a new 3.6 every 100k miles for peace of mind i suppose. But.. it's your money. I'd put all that money into the bank and start pricing out lifts, tires, wheels, etc.etc. that you will undoubtedly want as soon as you get in your new jeep.. :thumb: Oh and maybe not mention to your customers since you are a salesman that you think the 3.6 will crap out on them... LOL.

MOPWR2U 04-16-2013 01:46 PM

The only place I know of that claims to offer a full three year 36000 mile warranty on the whole vehicle after a Hemi swap is AEV. From what I know, Chrysler warrants their part, and AEV warrants their part.

I ordered a 2013 JKUR on 3/21/13, and had it drop shipped to AEV, straight from the assembly line. AEV just called me yesterday, and told me the Jeep is there, and they're going to get started on the work I want them to do. They will be installing a 6.4 Hemi / trans, 3.5" lift, 35" tires, and their heat reduction hood.

I'm a realist. I'll be surprised if Chrysler ever pays one penny for warranty work on this Jeep.

Nobody ever does a Hemi swap because it makes financial sense, or because of better gas mileage, so the people bringing up those arguments are missing the point. The point is: Why spend $37K on a new Jeep, when for twice that price you can have one that is a whole lot better, and has nearly 500 horsepower. :)

BManz 04-16-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImSickofSnow (Post 3643058)
...am really interested in the 5.7l hemi swap. Has anybody done it? Is it worth it? Obviously I know gas will be even worse but what are the pros and cons of this? Remember that this wrangler will be mainly a daily driver.

What do you want to gain by doing it?

PROS: more power (Tim Allen grunt), arguably more longevity and more serviceable engine compared to the Pentastar. This gives more capability for adding lots of weight and huge wheels/tires for off road duty in the future

CONS: more weight, especially up front, affects handling dynamics. More wear & tear on the chassis drivetrain from the extra torque. Fuel economy is only marginally affected overall, the largest impact in the city cycle (start&stop more weight). But, mpg is a moot point since the cost to do the conversion is monumental in comparison.

SUMMARY: For a daily driver it probably isn't worth the cost that runs $10,000-$20,000+ depending on how much work you do yourself and how you source out your parts. Doing this entails a lot of work and don't let someone fool you that it isn't.:angel:

18usc371 04-16-2013 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 3643470)
Because it's easy to blame any engine problems on a supercharger (something you "changed"), it is true that your engine will likely no longer be covered under warranty once you install a Ripp. But honestly--you save many thousands over a hemi install, and that would pay for a lot of repairs if they're ever needed.

That's a great point. I've see dozens of threads on Hemi v stock/SC/Turbo etc. and this is the first time I've seen this logic.

Also, In my dealings with modern cars and warranties, it has always been minor electrical gremlins - power locks, fuses, power windows - and fit issues -water leaks, peeling this and that, not blown engines and melted transmissions. So most things I've had are completely unrealted to drivetrain. But that may be just me.

ahsumtoy 04-16-2013 03:03 PM

Hemi Conversion
 
Check this site out. They claim they can roll the cost of the conversion into your new purchase.

Jeep Wrangler Hemi Conversion

18usc371 04-16-2013 03:05 PM

[QUOTE=MOPWR2U;3644276]They will be installing a 6.4 Hemi / trans, 3.5" lift, 35" tires, and their heat reduction hood.
QUOTE]


That's the way to do it! Go big!

I'm always curious on Hemi swaps what people do for auto insurance. How do you get adequate coverage? I have USAA, and they would stoke out if I told them, "By the way I just dropped a $25K / 500hp engine in the vehicle, will this increase my premium?"

If the Jeep is $30K (low) + $10K AEV ift/goodies + $25K Hemi = $65K. Where do you get insurance for this beast? How much more than the same driver / record / location / coverage over a 3.6?

18usc371 04-16-2013 03:09 PM

[QUOTE=ImSickofSnow;3643688]I'd like the hemi because quite honestly, the 3.6 doesn't cut it. If I do buy a wrangler,[QUOTE]


I'm assuming you don't have a Wrangler right now? Why not try living with a 3.6 for a few months first and letting it grow on you. No harm in that. Then you can swap if it still bothers you. No, a 3.6 will not feel/sound as great as a Hemi - but a 2dr, 6 speed, 4.10, 3.6 aint no slug . . .

JTPhoto JK 04-16-2013 04:58 PM

Well if you follow AEV on Face Book you will see that they have many partner Chrysler/Jeep dealerships that use their conversion kits and other AEV components.
AEV also makes the steel bumpers for CoD MW3 as well as the heat reduction hood.

One would have to contact one of these partnered dealerships to see what the price and warranty would be.

MTH 04-16-2013 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18usc371 (Post 3644546)
I'm always curious on Hemi swaps what people do for auto insurance. How do you get adequate coverage? I have USAA, and they would stoke out if I told them, "By the way I just dropped a $25K / 500hp engine in the vehicle, will this increase my premium?"

If the Jeep is $30K (low) + $10K AEV ift/goodies + $25K Hemi = $65K. Where do you get insurance for this beast? How much more than the same driver / record / location / coverage over a 3.6?

I'd expect they do it just like you can do for other mods--specifically, you can get a rider on top of your normal policy that accounts for the modifications.

While that's not really a big deal for those who may have $700 in 2.5" lift components, it can (as you observed) be a big deal once the mods start racking up. In the absence of a rider, your insurance company is just going to give you the depreciated value of your STOCK jeep in the event of a loss.

The US Code makes for an interesting choice of screen name, btw.

18usc371 04-16-2013 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 3644935)
I'd expect they do it just like you can do for other mods--specifically, you can get a rider on top of your normal policy that accounts for the modifications.

While that's not really a big deal for those who may have $700 in 2.5" lift components, it can (as you observed) be a big deal once the mods start racking up. In the absence of a rider, your insurance company is just going to give you the depreciated value of your STOCK jeep in the event of a loss.

The US Code makes for an interesting choice of screen name, btw.

When I had a 2011, I considered a swap. USAA covers only up to $5000 in mods. My fear in not totaling the vehicle - guess I could save the engine, my fear is that my luck will be that a $70K brand new Hemi JK will be stolen the day after I get it, and they cut me check for $35K. The increased premium is the gift that keeps on giving.

I mentioned the OP should try living with the 3.6 first. He may be happy. And enjoy the warranty, mileage, and pick-up, insurance rate, etc. Then decide . . .

I have 2012 now, and very happy with the 3.6. At least enough to take the Hemi out of play - for me. If I get the urge down the the road, it will be the RIPP.

As the for the code, yeah I always made sure the AUSA tacked the charge onto the indictment . . . double my pleasure, double their time (<60mo of course!)

ImSickofSnow 04-16-2013 07:04 PM

Alright, I asked a service advisor at my dealership a bunch of questions. I was under the impression that since I wouldn't drive it off the lot and have the conversion done at the dealership that the warrantys would hold up. I was wrong. All warrantys are voided. The wrangler is designed specifically with all of its parts to handle each other. Looks like if I do get a wrangler ill just enjoy it the way it is.

Brasco20 04-17-2013 04:01 AM

Why doesn't jeep offer a wrangler with a hemi from the factory?

TOK 04-17-2013 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brasco20 (Post 3646929)
Why doesn't jeep offer a wrangler with a hemi from the factory?

Because what a Jeep does has never been about horsepower, its about gearing. The Pentastar already has more power than anything they've ever offered in the CJ/YJ/TJ/Wrangler platform.

Its a horrible vehicle for 400+ horsepower... Short wheelbase, high center of gravity and mushy suspension. The fact the OP is trying to have a swap like this "make sense" tells me he's doing it for all the wrong reasons. The Hemi swap is something you do for the pure crazyness of it.

I'm sure AEV does it right, but the V8 brings other potential issues... My buddies Chevy 350 YJ overheats on the really slow trails, even with a 4 core radiator and electric fan.


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