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-   -   Banks Sidewinder Turbo System for TJ's (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/banks-sidewinder-turbo-system-for-tjs-237433.html)

marrk_us 04-24-2013 09:36 AM

Banks Sidewinder Turbo System for TJ's
 
Just got this link from Banks in my email. They are going to expand to cover back as far as 1999.5 model years. Won't cover my 97 :banghead: but I thought others might be interested. If you already have their monster exhaust the turbo kit works with it.

I have all their current offerings on my TJ, and put their turbo/exhaust system on my 6.2L diesel Blazer. Woke up the diesel enough that I had to rebuild THM400 with a heavy duty kit, because I couldn't "act like an adult" with the extra power :). So i'm guessing you definitely want the Dana 44 before going for the kit.

http://www.bankspower.com/products/show/430/97

Gold Miner 04-24-2013 09:52 AM

$3K is pretty pricey for bolt-on hp.... especially if bolted onto a tired 4.0L which it will likely destroy.
For $3K a guy can get an I6 Stroker long block with safe and significant hp gain built in. If you were to add this turbo or a supercharger to that... you're talking huge gains.
I wouldn't recommend adding a turbo or supercharger to a stock 4.0L... asking for trouble there IMHO.

marrk_us 04-24-2013 10:30 AM

Yep, quality is never cheap. After rebuilding the injector pump and injectors on the 6.2 to Banks specs, rebuilding the trans, and building the rear axle to deal with the power I spent about $4500 (doing all the work myself as i'm a mechanic). But overall have been very happy with the results. Allowed the Blazer to easily pull the 30ft toyhauler/camper easily at altitude and still cheaper then buying a new rig. Nice thing about the diesel is that adding a turbo actually improves mpg. Definitely not the case on a gas engine. So the kit's not for budget minded for sure, and good luck if you're trying to justify the purchase to the wife.

Also, if you're looking for a 6" lift that rides great, includes the SYE, Fox shocks and 35" Goodyear MTR's for under $300, don't even think about visiting Banks site! :rofl:

jgorm 04-24-2013 11:53 AM

I saw the same email. Originally they were claiming it would be smog legal in CA, but it looks like they do not have a EO#.

06GoldenEagle 04-24-2013 11:58 AM

Read about the kit in jeep magazines latest issue, seems like a nice kit, able to.install in your driveway with basic tools

bondosgto 04-24-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Miner (Post 3676734)
$3K is pretty pricey for bolt-on hp.... especially if bolted onto a tired 4.0L which it will likely destroy.
For $3K a guy can get an I6 Stroker long block with safe and significant hp gain built in. If you were to add this turbo or a supercharger to that... you're talking huge gains.
I wouldn't recommend adding a turbo or supercharger to a stock 4.0L... asking for trouble there IMHO.

Lol. Wow.

Gold Miner 04-24-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bondosgto (Post 3677225)
Lol. Wow.

take it for what it's worth... just my opinion
Looks like a good system for a motor that can handle it. I'd consider it for an I6 Stroker or a stock 4.0L with appropriate mods.

marrk_us 04-24-2013 12:37 PM

As the Banks kit is limited to about 6 psi boost by the wastegate (about the same as most factory applications), and targets low to midrange power it should be quite safe for a stock, healthy 4.0.(with a 44 rear end). On my Blazer I run a pyrometer (no wastegate) and routinely see 12-14 psi before the pyrometer "encourages" me to back off the throttle a little. On the other hand as compression ratios go up there is less performance benefit to a turbo system, so it might not work well with a stroker or any performance piston apps. Then detonation could be a problem, even with premium gas.

lindel 04-24-2013 12:39 PM

$3K is not a high price for a complete, bolt-on turbo system. The 4.0L has a strong enough bottom end to handle mild boost with no issues, even in stock trim.

Gold Miner 04-24-2013 12:45 PM

Interesting. I have never owned turbo engine.
So, no need to upgrade injectors, throttle body, etc with a turbo like this?
Everything on a (healthy) stock 4.0L can handle it fine?
If that's the case $3K for the advertised bolt-on hp is a fairly good deal I'd say.

jcrawler93 04-24-2013 12:53 PM

Honestly I've never seen a TJ with a turbo kit... I've seen them with a Chevy V8 engine and they performed pretty damn good at rock crawling. I'd rather make a brand new v8 conversion than adding a turbo kit on a used engine.

marrk_us 04-24-2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Miner (Post 3677299)
Interesting. I have never owned turbo engine.
So, no need to upgrade injectors, throttle body, etc with a turbo like this?
Everything on a (healthy) stock 4.0L can handle it fine?
If that's the case $3K for the advertised bolt-on hp is a fairly good deal I'd say.

Kit comes with new injectors. Something to consider, "most" stroker engines require you to purchase these, fuel pressure regulators, etc "in addition" to the cost of the engine. When Banks say complete bolt on system, they mean complete :thumb: I'm pretty sure new quality injectors (not scrounged used junk) will run at least $40-60 each, their kit says it includes new Bosch injectors.

That said, if the kit would work on my 97 (it won't) It'd be a hard decision which route to go when the time comes for a rebuild. Even with the known quality of the kit on my Blazer. Luckily I have "only" 193,000 on my 4.0 so that decision is hopefully still about 100-150,000 miles away!

bondosgto 04-24-2013 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold Miner (Post 3676734)
$3K is pretty pricey for bolt-on hp.... especially if bolted onto a tired 4.0L which it will likely destroy.
For $3K a guy can get an I6 Stroker long block with safe and significant hp gain built in. If you were to add this turbo or a supercharger to that... you're talking huge gains.
I wouldn't recommend adding a turbo or supercharger to a stock 4.0L... asking for trouble there IMHO.

[QUOTE=Gold Miner;3677299]Interesting. I have never owned turbo engine.
So, no need to upgrade injectors, throttle body, etc with a turbo like this?
Everything on a (healthy) stock 4.0L can handle it fine?
If that's the case $3K for the advertised bolt-on hp is a fairly good deal I'd say.[QUOTE]
Way to talk out of both sides of your mouth, if you would have read the articles on it you would have been better informed.
IF your jeep has over 100k i would do a compression test and leak down test to find any issues that might come up. The only issues that might pop up is breaking a ring land (typical of oem cast pistons), cats disenagrating, and rod bolts stretching. The 4.0 is not best canidate for FI, due to the cast head, this can be over come by a Hesco head. Sorry if I come across as a a$$, but ive been around turbos and superchargers for the better part of a decade, I have a good idea of what works and doesnt, the jeep I6 is a good canidate for FI, low compression, straight 6 makes it pretty damn tough.

pickupman2500 04-25-2013 05:13 AM

i need this my truck has a turbo and so does my sled. my jeep needs one i think

lindel 04-25-2013 08:41 AM

Quote:

Way to talk out of both sides of your mouth, if you would have read the articles on it you would have been better informed.
IF your jeep has over 100k i would do a compression test and leak down test to find any issues that might come up. The only issues that might pop up is breaking a ring land (typical of oem cast pistons), cats disenagrating, and rod bolts stretching. The 4.0 is not best canidate for FI, due to the cast head, this can be over come by a Hesco head. Sorry if I come across as a a$$, but ive been around turbos and superchargers for the better part of a decade, I have a good idea of what works and doesnt, the jeep I6 is a good canidate for FI, low compression, straight 6 makes it pretty damn tough.
TJ's have all had fuel injection, that's not the issue. The 4.0's bottom end is plenty stout enough for a turbo and breaking a piston is not likely due to the relatively low boost that the Banks kit produces.

jgorm 04-25-2013 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindel (Post 3680813)
TJ's have all had fuel injection, that's not the issue. The 4.0's bottom end is plenty stout enough for a turbo and breaking a piston is not likely due to the relatively low boost that the Banks kit produces.

add in the boost friendly low 8.5 compression and it seems like it was built for boost!:dance:

MFsoftball22 04-25-2013 10:12 AM

I thought it looked like a pretty good deal for "bolt on" HP. To get HP and TQ gains without doing a stroker engine swap or the fabrication for a V8 swap sounds pretty nice. It sounds like it would add some pep for people not looking to do engine swaps and on top of that you know everyone loves the sound of a whistling turbo. It has a way of turning heads. :cool:

n00g7 04-25-2013 12:20 PM

Gains seem pretty weak. I'd go with the stroker, personally.

MFsoftball22 04-25-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00g7 (Post 3681641)
Gains seem pretty weak. I'd go with the stroker, personally.

I really dont know how you justify saying that the "gains seem pretty weak". Compairing an engine swap to bolt on turbo system doesnt seem like a fair compairson. In that cause i might as well drop in my buddy's Late Model racing motor pumping out 842HP. Should we compair that to the Stroker?

Take the numbers for what they are "which we know are always exagerated a little bit" but for a bolt on system to gain 66HP and 84lb-ft of torque at the "REAR WHEELS". I would have to say that is pretty good. 201Hp and 250lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels pretty good for a bolt on product for a TJ Wrangler.

5.0 I6 Stroker is rated at 344HP and 384lb-ft of torque at the "crank". Again taking the numbers for what they are "slightly skewed" If the rear wheel HP & lb-ft of torque is roughly 75% of that at the Crank then that means that this Stroker is 258HP & 288lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels.

(numbers are just an est)

So for less money, time, complexity, and hassle you can get substantial HP and Torque Gains. Seems like a good product to me! I hope it performs as well or close to as well as they say. I also hope more companies out there start to develop similar kits. Always like seeing new mods for TJ's especially from a company like "Banks" :thumb:

OhSixTJ 04-25-2013 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFsoftball22 (Post 3681795)

I really dont know how you justify saying that the "gains seem pretty weak". Compairing an engine swap to bolt on turbo system doesnt seem like a fair compairson. In that cause i might as well drop in my buddy's Late Model racing motor pumping out 842HP. Should we compair that to the Stroker?

Take the numbers for what they are "which we know are always exagerated a little bit" but for a bolt on system to gain 66HP and 84lb-ft of torque at the "REAR WHEELS". I would have to say that is pretty good. 201Hp and 250lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels pretty good for a bolt on product for a TJ Wrangler.

5.0 I6 Stroker is rated at 344HP and 384lb-ft of torque at the "crank". Again taking the numbers for what they are "slightly skewed" If the rear wheel HP & lb-ft of torque is roughly 75% of that at the Crank then that means that this Stroker is 258HP & 288lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels.

(numbers are just an est)

So for less money, time, complexity, and hassle you can get substantial HP and Torque Gains. Seems like a good product to me! I hope it performs as well or close to as well as they say. I also hope more companies out there start to develop similar kits. Always like seeing new mods for TJ's especially from a company like "Banks" :thumb:

I think the standard figure for driveline loss is 15%. So you'd get 85% of those striker numbers at the wheel.

I'm interested in this. How does the cost compare to this 5.0 striker you speak of? Is it almost the same as someone higher up in this thread stated?

marrk_us 04-25-2013 01:37 PM

I'm really shocked no one has jumped in saying they'd buy the "complete tj turbo system" off ebay for $1000 or $1500, and that you're just paying for the Banks name. The same ones who pay $99 for a header that's "just as good" as a Banks header (ignoring the lifetime wty). They probably also spent $150 for "real HID headlights" from China. Or how about the argument that the turbo would get better mpg than a stroker if you kept you foot off the gas.:rofl: Just who would install a turbo or a stroker and be able to keep their foot out of it because it hurts their mpg?? And if you spend the money for either one you're probably not worried about gas money. I'm waiting they'll show up soon :popcorn:

MFsoftball22 04-25-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhSixTJ (Post 3681813)
I think the standard figure for driveline loss is 15%. So you'd get 85% of those striker numbers at the wheel.

I'm interested in this. How does the cost compare to this 5.0 striker you speak of? Is it almost the same as someone higher up in this thread stated?

What I could find it looks like the stroker that i was talking about 5.0L is $4,000 for the kit or $6,500 for the Stroker Long Block. plus upgraded fuel components. This is not the most popular of the stroker kits. the 4.6L stroker kit runs $1,900.00 w/ rods or $4,700.00 for the stroker long block again plus upgraded fuel system components. Also the time and know how to do an engine swap.

I like the idea of a 4.6L Stroker when my engine goes, as i have plenty of people with the know how to help me. But the $3,000 to get a bolt on boost in HP and torque sounds like the way to go for a good running 4.0L

Hell if it ends up blowing my engine then it looks like I get my Stroker :D

MFsoftball22 04-25-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marrk_us (Post 3681872)
I'm really shocked no one has jumped in saying they'd buy the "complete tj turbo system" off ebay for $1000 or $1500, and that you're just paying for the Banks name. The same ones who pay $99 for a header that's "just as good" as a Banks header (ignoring the lifetime wty). They probably also spent $150 for "real HID headlights" from China. Or how about the argument that the turbo would get better mpg than a stroker if you kept you foot off the gas.:rofl: Just who would install a turbo or a stroker and be able to keep their foot out of it because it hurts their mpg?? And if you spend the money for either one you're probably not worried about gas money. I'm waiting they'll show up soon :popcorn:

:thumb: I like gas and oil in my engine not parts of my Turbo!

n00g7 04-25-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFsoftball22 (Post 3681795)
I really dont know how you justify saying that the "gains seem pretty weak". Compairing an engine swap to bolt on turbo system doesnt seem like a fair compairson. In that cause i might as well drop in my buddy's Late Model racing motor pumping out 842HP. Should we compair that to the Stroker?

Take the numbers for what they are "which we know are always exagerated a little bit" but for a bolt on system to gain 66HP and 84lb-ft of torque at the "REAR WHEELS". I would have to say that is pretty good. 201Hp and 250lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels pretty good for a bolt on product for a TJ Wrangler.

5.0 I6 Stroker is rated at 344HP and 384lb-ft of torque at the "crank". Again taking the numbers for what they are "slightly skewed" If the rear wheel HP & lb-ft of torque is roughly 75% of that at the Crank then that means that this Stroker is 258HP & 288lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels.

(numbers are just an est)

So for less money, time, complexity, and hassle you can get substantial HP and Torque Gains. Seems like a good product to me! I hope it performs as well or close to as well as they say. I also hope more companies out there start to develop similar kits. Always like seeing new mods for TJ's especially from a company like "Banks" :thumb:

It's not much less money. 4-5k for new engine, sell the old one for 2k, you're looking at the same/similar price. Aside from time and complicity, I'd rather swap for a built engine with larger displacement than go FI. Personal preference. Also, if you wanted more HP later, you could go FI on the built engine, which makes more sense to me.

beaureed445 04-25-2013 02:19 PM

I'd love to see a side-by-side test done of the various turbos- Banks/ Sprintex/ etc. Same Jeep, same dyno, same tuner, same conditions. I've thought about stroking or 'charging my TJ (it's only got 53k miles). I'm new to the I6 world; I've been playing with Harley motors for the past 10 years. I

MFsoftball22 04-25-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00g7 (Post 3681979)
It's not much less money. 4-5k for new engine, sell the old one for 2k, you're looking at the same/similar price. Aside from time and complicity, I'd rather swap for a built engine with larger displacement than go FI. Personal preference. Also, if you wanted more HP later, you could go FI on the built engine, which makes more sense to me.

I would agree on with what you are saying and like i said in another one of my posts I want to do a Stroker down the road too. I want to do the 4.6L Stroker kit. But something that you are forgetting is that you also have to purchase upgraded fuel system components and if you are unable to do the swap your self you are looking at 9.5+ hours of labor time in a shop. @ $90/hr that would make it $855.00 in labor time. and with this set up you would be making a little more HP and torque. Trust me i want a Turbo'ed Stroker and maybe someday down the road i will. But I think that for Pros far outweigh the Cons with the system so far. Dont know anyone running it so that would be the next piece of the puzzle.

The only thing i really disagreed with is the "weak power gains" I would have to say they were pretty substantial for bolt on. Especially when we talk about boosting engine performance. IT IS ALWAYS COSTLY!

jgorm 04-25-2013 02:59 PM

I dont understand how someone can claim that a 46% gain in hp is "weak". Remember this is only 6 psi and with an IC you could bump it to 9. If you follow "blower math" then 6 psi should give you 195hp (the kit does a bit better!) and then you go to 9 psi it should bring you to 223hp for a 84 hp gain and a 60% increase in hp. Personally, I wouldn't run any boost on anything without an intercooler (well, except my diesel rv and I'm working on a solution for that)

beaureed445 04-25-2013 03:08 PM

In the words of my old motorcycle tuner...."It's cubic dollars."

MFsoftball22 04-25-2013 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgorm (Post 3682175)
I dont understand how someone can claim that a 46% gain in hp is "weak". Remember this is only 6 psi and with an IC you could bump it to 9. If you follow "blower math" then 6 psi should give you 195hp (the kit does a bit better!) and then you go to 9 psi it should bring you to 223hp for a 84 hp gain and a 60% increase in hp. Personally, I wouldn't run any boost on anything without an intercooler (well, except my diesel rv and I'm working on a solution for that)

X2 that is the only thing that I would have to say is the current downfall to the kit. But if you read the article from JP Magazine it states that they are currently in the process of developing a intercooler for the system. It looks like a good product from a very reputable company.

OhSixTJ 04-25-2013 04:19 PM

Hmmm


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