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-   -   The Virtual California Jeep Speed shop (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f55/the-virtual-california-jeep-speed-shop-238873.html)

Gunner 04-29-2013 03:29 PM

The Virtual California Jeep Speed shop
 
I thought this might work out. Lots of smart people here. Some do their own work others have shops. This is a place to share ideas and brainstorm builds. And maybe to help each other out. It should be open to both pro builders and us home guys. We need to keep it friendly and have Mercy on the newb questions asked. LOL Mine included. Hopefully we can get a Mod to make this a sticky. It's not to be a big build thread but single ideas and answers. If you want to show your build then start a build thread. Lets have some fun with this. Gear heads unite and let the ideas start flowing.
Bob

Gunner 04-29-2013 03:48 PM

Sooo I'm gonna throw out my first question. Weight, just how important is it to build light but strong? I built and raced sports cars. We always were sweating any excess weight. I have brought that into my jeeping. I am slowly pulling steel parts off and replacing them with aluminum when I can. Steering parts are Currie Steel. But I am looking at Savvy Arms to save weight along with a Savvy bumper and a Warn Syn line wench. It seems like there are so many MFG's who build out of steel. My racing taught me that a tire only has X pounds of traction available on a given surface. In other words it can only lift so many pounds before it slips or the ground gives way. So a lighter jeep stresses the tire interface less than a heavy one does. Part of the reason buggys do so well. So just how important is a lighter weight in off roading?
Bob

Slo Mo 04-29-2013 04:41 PM

First question where is the radiator drain on a 2007 JKU. I had to take off thelower hose to drain it to replace the water pump.

Gunner 04-29-2013 05:00 PM

Lot's of the new ones don't have them. They are not considered a service item anymore. Most of the new stuff don't even have dipsticks on the auto trans anymore. It's a sealed unit. You are expected to bring your vehicle to a dealer to have it worked on. The harder they make it on home mechanics the more business they are hoping to get. And it's working. So my guess is there is none. If you don't see it on the bottom of one of the tanks it's not there.

Just checked it's on the front of the passenger tank. Go figure. It is suppose to be a booger to get to.

WOKNROX 04-29-2013 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slo Mo (Post 3697489)
First question where is the radiator drain on a 2007 JKU. I had to take off thelower hose to drain it to replace the water pump.

Sounds like u need a can openers ...lol
the automatic trans on my Hyundai Sonata has a dipstick but no drain plug....and the pan is mounted on the side of the trans....makes a real mess....to service ....

Gunner 04-29-2013 05:40 PM

So Steve what do you think of the thread. It was your idea after all.

WOKNROX 04-29-2013 06:04 PM

Hey..sorry for all the Heys..I've been watching to much Duck Dynasty ...I think its a good idea ....hopefully it'll help people feel more comfortable talking about things or ideas they might have or maybe get that little push of info they need to complete a purchase or project they're working on....

I've been thinking about ur question ....and I know everyone has they're on needs..I believe ur right in the fact that liter is better but I think for my needs and the type or wheelin I do...ROCKS...I'd do aluminum everywhere but the bottom ....sliders ..Tcase skid..gas tank
skid those kinds of things tend to get alot of abuse so I'll stick with steel for those...
That's just for my needs...

Slo Mo 04-29-2013 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner (Post 3697558)
Lot's of the new ones don't have them. They are not considered a service item anymore. Most of the new stuff don't even have dipsticks on the auto trans anymore. It's a sealed unit. You are expected to bring your vehicle to a dealer to have it worked on. The harder they make it on home mechanics the more business they are hoping to get. And it's working. So my guess is there is none. If you don't see it on the bottom of one of the tanks it's not there.

Just checked it's on the front of the passenger tank. Go figure. It is suppose to be a booger to get to.


Thanks I will check it out again

Gunner 04-29-2013 08:50 PM

I get that but have you tried any of the 6061 stuff out there or do you have any friends who have? I am looking at a Savvy kit for mine cause I like the engineering on it. The lighter weight is a bonus. But I don't do your trails... Yet:D

87octane 04-29-2013 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner (Post 3698836)
I get that but have you tried any of the 6061 stuff out there or do you have any friends who have? I am looking at a Savvy kit for mine cause I like the engineering on it. The lighter weight is a bonus. But I don't do your trails... Yet:D

I bought my 4 inch Currie lift from Savvy and went with the steel upper and lower control arms. I also have the Savvy aluminum gas tank skid that has taken quite a few big hits and is holding up fine. I wasn't feeling the silver color or extra cost for powder coating the arms at the time of purchase. How much weight do they save?

Gunner 04-29-2013 11:31 PM

I'd have to ask Blaine or Gerald but I'll bet it is 1/3rd the weight. That's a lot.

Cons_Table 04-30-2013 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner (Post 3698836)
I get that but have you tried any of the 6061 stuff out there or do you have any friends who have? I am looking at a Savvy kit for mine cause I like the engineering on it. The lighter weight is a bonus. But I don't do your trails... Yet:D

Well from what I hear, gerald is the parts tester for all of the savvy armor. I havent met the guy, or seen him drive...but I hear he knows how to put a rig through its paces (if u know what I mean). So...if he cant break it, its probably strong enough. I think a while back I read that if you could break the gas tank skid...they would replace it. If you ask me, thats sayin somethin :eek:

Gunner 04-30-2013 12:28 AM

Yeah I got to look at their stuff up close. It's pretty awesome.

Cons_Table 04-30-2013 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner (Post 3699879)
Yeah I got to look at their stuff up close. It's pretty awesome.

Its definitely top notch stuff from what I have seen.

Gunner 04-30-2013 03:18 AM

Soooo the question is. Assuming it lives then does it help you to climb easier because it weighs less?

87octane 04-30-2013 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner (Post 3700220)
Soooo the question is. Assuming it lives then does it help you to climb easier because it weighs less?

That is a good question. I would think there would be a happy medium. Small pick up trucks have a tendency to spin the rear tires fairly easy because they don't have much weight in the rear. Some people will add weight by using sand bags to get better traction in the rain. Less weight will climb better in regards to HP but at what point do you sacrifice traction? Maybe we can't shed enough weight on a Jeep to sacrifice traction. With that being said, I am going to say that less weight will allow you to climb better butt will you notice the difference between a 4500 lbs Jeep and a 4000 lbs Jeep? Probably not unless you are competing at a professional level.

Black Magic Brakes 04-30-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner (Post 3697256)
Sooo I'm gonna throw out my first question. Weight, just how important is it to build light but strong? I built and raced sports cars. We always were sweating any excess weight. I have brought that into my jeeping. I am slowly pulling steel parts off and replacing them with aluminum when I can. Steering parts are Currie Steel. But I am looking at Savvy Arms to save weight along with a Savvy bumper and a Warn Syn line wench. It seems like there are so many MFG's who build out of steel. My racing taught me that a tire only has X pounds of traction available on a given surface. In other words it can only lift so many pounds before it slips or the ground gives way. So a lighter jeep stresses the tire interface less than a heavy one does. Part of the reason buggys do so well. So just how important is a lighter weight in off roading?
Bob


I wouldn't switch to aluminum in control arms to save weight because I think they are the same. One is solid, the other is tube.

There was a comparison to a pick up with an empty bed spinning the tires easier. Did we forget about weight transfer somewhere?

As far as the overall question, there have been many folks that pulled all their steel armor and replaced it with aluminum. Not one has reversed that and put the steel back on.

BillG.OTD 04-30-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87octane (Post 3700493)
That is a good question. I would think there would be a happy medium. Small pick up trucks have a tendency to spin the rear tires fairly easy because they don't have much weight in the rear. Some people will add weight by using sand bags to get better traction in the rain. Less weight will climb better in regards to HP but at what point do you sacrifice traction? Maybe we can't shed enough weight on a Jeep to sacrifice traction. With that being said, I am going to say that less weight will allow you to climb better butt will you notice the difference between a 4500 lbs Jeep and a 4000 lbs Jeep? Probably not unless you are competing at a professional level.

I don't know...500 lbs is quite a bit if your stuck on a rock...:) They make most items in aluminum...I have alloy rims, aluminum engine skid, fenders, gas tank skid, antirock arms (bling :D) rock rails (steel and aluminum) and soon to be corners...I also have to believe that the lighter weight gives your components an easier time...which rig will more likely break an axle or U joint etc. and how about our poor engines? If you sub all those parts out for steel than you add a lot more weight...Like Blaine said, not too many going from aluminum back to steel...

suicideking 04-30-2013 11:01 AM

Aluminum armor is great as long as you're not doing much rock crawling.

In a thread in the JK section, someone mentioned calling Genright about their aluminum bumpers. They said only get it if you're not doing any rock crawling. It can't take a hit like steel.

I've seen some pictures from damage caused by aluminum armor. It's great because it's light, but doesn't do it's job as 'armor'.

WOKNROX 04-30-2013 11:11 AM

O...Rick I think ur about to get flamed....even though I feel the same about aluminum parts
to as u...

BillG.OTD 04-30-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOKNROX (Post 3701298)
O...Rick I think ur about to get flamed....

That's what I was thinking....:D but maybe not....

Gunner 04-30-2013 11:19 AM

I never thought about the arms being solid and the others tube steel. That would make them about the same in weight. When I was racing we always tried to find the balance between strength enough to survive the race and light weight to increase acceleration off the corners. I still think that applies to climbing and decending. A part needs the strength to survive but a side biter on a tire will only carry so much weight before it deforms and allows the tire to slip or spin. Less weight to carry up a hill should mean better traction. But that said. How much does weight do to press the tire into the surface on a jeep climb?

Gunner 04-30-2013 11:20 AM

No flaming allowed here.

Cons_Table 04-30-2013 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suicideking (Post 3701269)
Aluminum armor is great as long as you're not doing much rock crawling.

In a thread in the JK section, someone mentioned calling Genright about their aluminum bumpers. They said only get it if you're not doing any rock crawling. It can't take a hit like steel.

I've seen some pictures from damage caused by aluminum armor. It's great because it's light, but doesn't do it's job as 'armor'.

I would argue that, but I am sure that it comes down to the manufacturer building the products. I dont know what savvy has available for the JK platform, but I know for the TJ/LJ there is a lot...and it has all made a good name for itself.

For example, gerald and john currie built their EMC jeep for KOH and won two years in a row. If I am not mistaken, all of the armor (other than the original defender tube fenders) were savvy aluminum.

I think people think that all aluminum is equal...which in most cases probably would result in poor armor. So if you were going to compare the strength of a savvy full aluminum corner to a steel full aluminum corner...the steel would be stronger without a doubt. The key point is at what point does steel become stronger? For example, if it takes 10,000 psi to bend the aluminium (random numbers) and 15,000 psi to bend the steel...yes steel is stronger, but will your rig EVER be exposed to forces great enough to bend the aluminum?

Gunner 04-30-2013 11:31 AM

Sure I agree. Steel is stronger than aluminum if your talking impact resistance. 3/16 steel plate is going to be more resistant to a bullet than 3/16 aluminum plate. Same with a rock hit. But if you can hit the steel with a 308 and the aluminum with a 243 then maybe they come out closer. Thats my point. If we lighten the rigs it takes a softer hit on a rock due to less inertia. But can we lighten them enough. Is 500 lbs enough to make a difference. I would bet it is on axles and suspension. As far as taking a hit. All the pro Beadlock wheels are alloy. They take a huge beating.

BillG.OTD 04-30-2013 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suicideking (Post 3701269)
Aluminum armor is great as long as you're not doing much rock crawling.

In a thread in the JK section, someone mentioned calling Genright about their aluminum bumpers. They said only get it if you're not doing any rock crawling. It can't take a hit like steel.

I've seen some pictures from damage caused by aluminum armor. It's great because it's light, but doesn't do it's job as 'armor'.

Here is some good reading on the subject....it starts out about the difference between steel or aluminum gas tank skids and moves to other areas around page 3-4, but all good...:)

Buying new gas tank skid, steel or aluminum? - JeepForum.com

suicideking 04-30-2013 12:11 PM

Unlike some of you bastards, I actually have to work! :D

I'll address the flames later. Good topic because a front bumper will be my next mod.

Gunner 04-30-2013 12:21 PM

Thanks Bill
That was a good thread other than the pissin match in the middle.

Gunner 04-30-2013 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suicideking (Post 3701481)
Unlike some of you bastards, I actually have to work! :D

I'll address the flames later. Good topic because a front bumper will be my next mod.

Lol I was already working when you were born. Now I get to spend my time typing drivel on the inter web. Your time will come.

Gunner 04-30-2013 01:02 PM

An interesting read from a high end Yacht builder on steel vs aluminum.
Aluminum Strength vs Steel Strength


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