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-   -   Front end sagging (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/front-end-sagging-239295.html)

kshaws21 04-30-2013 04:37 PM

My front end is starting to sag somewhat, it now sits about 1 inch or more lower than the back. Can I fix this with a simple spring change without having to change anything else? And what used spring would anyone recommend if I went that route?

Attachment 243292

Attachment 243296



Not a great pic, but you can tell the front is lower, I'm running stock bumper with no winch so that's not an issue, I just figure the springs are sagging.

Jaxon1023 04-30-2013 04:40 PM

Just get a spacer for the springs up front

Rough Country .75 in. Leveling Lift Kit (97-06 Wrangler TJ) 7596 - Free Shipping over $75!

Plus we get 6% off from them. Just pm them for the code

kshaws21 04-30-2013 04:47 PM

I'm already running a 2" BB spacer lift, will this work in conjunction with it?

thgr8alex 04-30-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kshaws21 (Post 3702287)
I'm already running a 2" BB spacer lift, will this work in conjunction with it?

I would not recommend stacking spacers, could run into some issues there..

kshaws21 04-30-2013 05:21 PM

So springs may be the answer?

Reznor 04-30-2013 05:55 PM

You can stack spacers. It's just that you already have a 2" so 3" of spacer isn't really ideal. Your best option is different springs, or go to a junkyard and get V8 ZJ (93-98 Grand Cherokee) springs which should give you 2-3" in a 4cylinder and 1.5-2.5" in a Sport (which I don't think you have).

When you installed the lift or first bought the lifted jeep, was it more level? The reason I ask is because the vehicle has a natural rake anyway, and it is common for the front to be as much as an inch lower.

PedroJr 04-30-2013 06:26 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Ok I'm running into the same problem except that in my case I don't have no bb or anything it's just stock suspention. How can I level it i would need about 3" in the front to be level with the rear. Any ideas? I been thinkin on the leveling kits but I only see like 2" or 2.5" or I should replace my front springs?here is a pic of how is sitting right now

Attachment 243331



Attachment 243332

kshaws21 04-30-2013 06:26 PM

Yes the Jeep was more level after the BB was installed, it's just gotten lower in the front over the last year or so.

My main question is, will changing to those springs you recommend require any other mods or is it a straight spring only change?

TJDave 04-30-2013 06:39 PM

When I was running a 2" Budget boost, my front end sagged bad after a winch and bumper install.
I swapped the front spacers for some 3" springs. Fixed it right up and ran that way for a few more years.
I also installed an adjustable front track bar also because the axle not being centered bugged me. My BB came with longer shocks and bumpstops.
Other than the 3" springs and track bar, I did not change anything. You have to set your toe in and center the steering wheel any time you mess with those items.

Reznor 05-01-2013 04:04 PM

The springs I speak of from a ZJ are direct replacements. No modding required. Just make sure you get the V8 springs and not the I6 springs - there is a big difference. They LOOK similar in length to the stock TJ, but are firmer so don't pass judgement that they aren't gonna work until you install them. For some $25-$35 bucks at the junkyard, it's worth a try. You can also remove the stock isolator from the ZJ and stack that with the stock isolator in your TJ for another little boost.

Of course, old springs will also be sagged but I put some on from a 97 ZJ that looked well used and got 1.5" on my 4.0. With a lighter 2.5, I imagine you're looking at least at a 2" lift.

Reznor 05-01-2013 04:13 PM

Pedro: The front is 3" lower than the rear? It doesn't look like that much in the pictures - especially since there is a natural 1" rake from the factory. In your case if you know for a fact your vehicle isn't lifted (almost looks like it in the rear to me, but whatever) then you just need replacement springs for the front. You could put in 2" pucks, but I don't see why you'd cover up a worn part with a new one rather than just get a new part altogther.

slathrum 05-01-2013 04:36 PM

Have the same problem here, but more severe like Pedrojr's. Mine was sagging before adding a bumper and I'd still like to add a winch and some 31's. Really just want a hair above stock ride height to fully clear the 31's.

How about new replacement springs for a ZJ? Moog has a set of progressive rate front springs for $100 that seem like a pretty good option. They're listing a difference between a V8 2wd and a V8 4wd ZJ for these springs though. Suppose I could just compare the two different springs in store to see the difference. Anyone gone this route, or know what's up with that?

Reznor 05-01-2013 04:48 PM

They ARE listing a difference? Or did you mean they aren't? I've heard before that people trying to buy these new have had issues finding a difference.

You can't really compare them in store very well... the rate of progression, the thickness of the stock and the width of the overall spring all play a factor in how much lift it would give you.

If you're going to be offroading at all with 31's, you're probably best off with 1-2 inches extra lift. I would imagine with a bumper and winch the used ZJ's would be just slightly over proper stock height for you. If you bought them new I imagine you'd gain about an inch over proper stock height, which I think would make your rig fairly level given the factory rake. Then you could add 1" spacers to properly fit the 31's and/or to finish leveling.

Even when using proper lift kits the results can vary from vehicle to vehicle. When you're using parts from other vehicles or upgrading front and rears independently there is even more opportunity for odd results. On my own rig I got the 1.5" with ZJ's on the front where I was really hoping for 2.5". Trial and error....

kshaws21 05-01-2013 04:56 PM

Thanks for all the replies, guess I will try the junkyard spring route first.

One more stupid question (forgive me, suspension stuff is one place I am very green).

With the XJ springs, would I need to also dump the current spacer lift I am using in the front or transfer the spacers over to the XJ springs or will that be too much lift?

TJDave 05-01-2013 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kshaws21 (Post 3706944)
Thanks for all the replies, guess I will try the junkyard spring route first.

One more stupid question (forgive me, suspension stuff is one place I am very green).

With the XJ springs, would I need to also dump the current spacer lift I am using in the front or transfer the spacers over to the XJ springs or will that be too much lift?

Probably a typo, just making sure. You are looking for ZJ springs from a V8 Grand Cherokee, not an XJ. XJ Cherokee springs are the same as TJ springs.

kshaws21 05-01-2013 05:39 PM

Yeah that's what meant.

Reznor 05-01-2013 07:35 PM

Two things:
XJ springs will also work on the front IF you get the upcountry (Is that what it's called?). It has to be from the model that was raised an inch or two. In that case, you'd get that one or two inches of lift. But might as well stick with the ZJ since they are by far easier to find.

Anyway, for the ZJ front springs it's up to you. If the vehicle was originally sitting where you wanted it to be in the front before it sagged and you're going to get about 2 inches or more out of the ZJ springs as I suspect, then you can probably ditch the spacer. If you find you are not quite as high as you want to be after that, you can always cut off the bottom of the spacer you have to make it a 1". In my opinion, looking at your picture, I think you can end up installing the ZJ springs alone and you'll be fine. There might be a slight rake, but that'd be normal and like stock.

I would be very surprised if, in the end, you'd want to have both the ZJ springs AND the 2" spacer.... I imagine that would end up putting your front end higher than the rear which looks horrible. It also might be enough to start changing your driveline angles so much that you'd need to counter it with a transfer case drop, etc.

PedroJr 05-01-2013 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reznor (Post 3706802)
Pedro: The front is 3" lower than the rear? It doesn't look like that much in the pictures - especially since there is a natural 1" rake from the factory. In your case if you know for a fact your vehicle isn't lifted (almost looks like it in the rear to me, but whatever) then you just need replacement springs for the front. You could put in 2" pucks, but I don't see why you'd cover up a worn part with a new one rather than just get a new part altogther.

Ok I measure the rear n I got about 5" and the front I got about 2" so that's what I meant that to be even with the rear I would it have to add 3" so it can be even with the rear. I was looking at those leveling kits but I see that they only have the 1.5" or the 2". N if I replace the spacer with the 2" it would it look the same as now n its no point of doing that I want it to be level with the rear. Now I don't know if the rear has a bigger springs neither that I know if the rig have any lift since the front it's lower. But it could be that it had a lift but with time it drop. Other thing if i could find 3" leveling kit could I stock then on top of the old ones or I would it have to replace the old ones n then put the new ones?

Reznor 05-01-2013 10:38 PM

Pedro: You can certainly make the distance from the fender to the site in the front the same distance as you have in the back. But what I was saying is that from factory there is a 1" rake, so to be in line with that I personally would be thinking about lifting the front 2 inches from where it is now... not 3. It's your choice, of course.

I'm confused though, and am having some difficulty understanding your post. You talk about replacing a spacer, yet you said in your first post your suspension is stock?

If your front suspension has a 2" spacer already, then you shouldn't add a second one. 2" is about as much as you want to add as a spacer. Bottom line: you need new springs in the front. You talk about levelling kits, but if your springs are worn and drooping, then that is the first thing I would replace if I were you. The problem in your case is that it doesn't seem like you have a clue what is on your TJ at all. You need to figure that out first.

Do this:

Measure the rear first. Measure from the center of your wheel (hub) straight up to the edge of the plastic fender. Subtract 20 inches. This is roughly how much lift you have in the rear. (Stock is supposed to be about 20" distance). So if your measurement is 23", you roughly have a 3" lift in the rear.

Your best bet then, is to get springs on the front which will give you a similar amount of lift. If you measure 3" extra in the rear, 3" lift springs should make you level, and you will not need to use a spacer at all. Or, you could go the ZJ spring route I talked about, which should give you 1.5-2.5 or so inches and perhaps then add a spacer to level it out more if required.

PedroJr 05-01-2013 10:57 PM

Ok sorry of I got u confuse but what I think it happend with the previous owner was that eventually he had a lift kit on it thats why I see a spring spacer in the front. Now with all the stuff u have talk about it make since that I do have a lift but dint knew about it. So that lead to the lift been there for who knows n now the springs are sagging cause of the time been in the jeep! Make since? I think it does and anyway thanks for help me understand more what I got on my rig. Now I need to find out what size of kit a got. I let u know what I found. But again thanks man for the big help

Reznor 05-01-2013 11:29 PM

Well that isn't really a "lift kit"... it's just some spacers.

I think you're right though... those tires are big... what are they... 32's? I don't think you'd have that much clearance on the rear without a lift.

Seriously - just measure it up and get new springs for the front. I suspect if you got direct replacement TJ springs you could continue to run your spacers up front and it should be fairly level. But the BETTER way to lift the front is to get rid of the spacer altogether and put the proper spring in. If you have to replace the springs anyway (and you do) then that is your best bet.

PedroJr 05-01-2013 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reznor (Post 3708665)
Well that isn't really a "lift kit"... it's just some spacers.

I think you're right though... those tires are big... what are they... 32's? I don't think you'd have that much clearance on the rear without a lift.

Seriously - just measure it up and get new springs for the front. I suspect if you got direct replacement TJ springs you could continue to run your spacers up front and it should be fairly level. But the BETTER way to lift the front is to get rid of the spacer altogether and put the proper spring in. If you have to replace the springs anyway (and you do) then that is your best bet.

Yeah ok I got 33x10.5x15, ok let me see if I understand what u told me. When I do the measurement in the back I would be able to get an idea of how much of a lift I got n from there I could go n get me the new springs for the front. If I get 3" from the back I would get 3" for my front springs for the front right? So it look even. Do I have to buy me just the front springs or I need something Else? Like bump stops or anything? Shocks?

chilly 05-02-2013 12:18 AM

ZJ front springs gave me almost the exact same front lift as a 2" BB spacer, that's with a winch & mounting plate up front. YMMV, but I'm guessing that won't give quite enough lift lift to flex 33's (might need to bumpstop more aggressively than is ideal).

PedroJr 05-02-2013 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilly (Post 3708849)
ZJ front springs gave me almost the exact same front lift as a 2" BB spacer, that's with a winch & mounting plate up front. YMMV, but I'm guessing that won't give quite enough lift lift to flex 33's (might need to bumpstop more aggressively than is ideal).

Did you also replace ur shocks or bump stops or u just did your front springs when u did yours?

chilly 05-02-2013 09:37 AM

I put in and ran a Rubicon Express 2" BB for a time prior to swapping in the ZJ springs in front, so I kept the same extended shocks from the BB kit.

Haven't added any bumpstop ext, but when I get around to it it would probably be a good idea to cycle the suspension to see if any is necessary (highly doubt it would be though, since I'm only running 31's).

Reznor 05-02-2013 11:03 AM

Pedro: You understand correctly.

Ok - now we're getting into general lifting information which a) I've only read about online and b) Is in other areas of the internet in far more detail than I'm interested in providing.

If you find out you have 3" lift in the rear, then 3" lift springs in the front are your best bet. I'm inclined to think you are running stock springs and a 2" spacer at all corners. (Which, by the way, is not enough lift for 33's if you offroad)

But then you asked about shocks and bumpstops. A valid question. If your vehicle is not going to see moderate or heavy offroading, then simply replacing the spring will probably work for you. I suspect this is a street Jeep, since if you were involved in heavy offroading you probably would have ruined your fenders/flares by now with 33" tires.

If you DO want to do more intense offroading, then there are a few things I should mention:
1) Stock shocks (if that is what you have) should be replaced with longer shocks.
2) Longer shocks will probably require bumpstop. Check the forum for details on bumpstop since I cannot possibly explain it all here.
3) And again, 2" lift is not enough for 33's when offroading.

Chilly: I was hoping to get 2" or even more out of the ZJ springs but got a disappointing 1.5", based on what I hear online that the distance from hub to bottom of fender is 19" stock. I'm actually surprised you got that much out of it with a winch and stuff. Do you have a 2.5l? If so, the lightness of that engine might explain the difference. Or perhaps the springs I got from the junkyard are just sagged.

chilly 05-02-2013 12:16 PM

No, mine is a 4.0, might be the springs you got were pretty worn. I got the idea to try it from another forum member that also got a pretty good stance from Zj front / BB rear combo. Can't remember the name off-hand.

chilly 05-02-2013 01:03 PM

I just thought of one factor though; I do remember when I looked up my factory spring rates I was dismayed to find I had about the lightest spring rate available, so I may have started with a little more sag to begin with.

Reznor 05-02-2013 02:26 PM

Hmm.... I didn't think the TJ's had different spring rates? I have nothing to back that up at all as I know other models like JKs did have different rates....

PedroJr 05-10-2013 07:46 PM

Ok I try to install the used springs out of zy out of 03 with the v8 and it dint work out. Since I got a spacer on the from and it's seens like the spacer it's smaller than the spring it self so I dint felt sure about it so I took it off. I might have to order a new ones intead


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