Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   JK General Discussion Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/)
-   -   Recovery points needed? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/recovery-points-needed-239633.html)

Bluedog225 05-01-2013 10:03 PM

Recovery points needed?
 
Please pardon the newbie question. I have searched and not seen an answer. I have a new JKU. It has 2 tow hooks on the front bumper. I have added a ball to the trailer hitch.

I plan to go to some out-of-the-way land with a muddy creek. I have no real idea whether I'm going to get stuck in the bottom of this creek or not until I try. Not too far out of town, so getting a tow truck or assist from a four-wheel-drive will not be the end of the world.

I keep seeing references to the importance of adding recovery points. I understand the idea, but don't know what other what I have existing will work. It seems to me like that is what the tow hooks and trailer hitch are for. Am I missing the boat? Thanks Tom

amarillojeepguy 05-01-2013 10:09 PM

Where your hitch is is weak... That's why you see aftermarket bumpers with hooks or d rings where the frame is at....much stronger and can jerk on it and be somewhat more comfortable your not gonna rip the cross member off.....fronts I think are decent but again I like aftermarket a little better its all in what your doing and just my opinion here lol

Bluedog225 05-01-2013 10:18 PM

I would have guessed that the trailer hitch attached to the same points on the frame that the bumper attached to.

PS – I think I accidentally reported your post. Not sure what that means. Sorry

Gbobva 05-01-2013 10:23 PM

Your stock JKU has recovery points. 2 in the front, and one in the rear. That hook looking thing on the bottom left side is a frame mounted recovery point.

WITH THAT SAID:
1. Never go out alone
2, Remember: Recovery first when planning mods

jkjeeper06 05-01-2013 10:47 PM

The tow hitch is plenty strong. It's attached to a thick walled 2.5"x3.5" rectangular tubing. I've pulled F350's out of ditches in the winter with it and I've never bent, broke, or cracked it. Use recovery straps, not tow straps when pulling someone out. That will reduce the yanking effect. Winches are slow so they don't yank anyway if you get pulled by that

rogueleader 05-01-2013 11:44 PM

Do not use a ball hitch to use as a recovery point. The bolt that holds it to the hitch mount is not designed to be used as such and can turn the hitch ball into a very dangerous projectile. If you want to use the hitch, get an actual recovery gear made for it. The two devices pictured below are strong enough to yank on with a recovery strap.

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/t...psfe52506d.jpg

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps760256fd.jpg

amarillojeepguy 05-01-2013 11:48 PM

I have seen them crack on a older jeep...not a jk...just saying the frame mount points are much more rigid and stronger

JReed615 05-01-2013 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueleader (Post 3708942)
Do not use a ball hitch to use as a recovery point. The bolt that holds it to the hitch mount is not designed to be used as such and can turn the hitch ball into a very dangerous projectile. If you want to use the hitch, get an actual recovery gear made for it. The two devices pictured below are strong enough to yank on with a recovery strap.



You don't need those. All you need is a hitch receiver pin and a recovery strap. Saves some money, and it works even better.

WatchThis! 05-01-2013 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JReed615 (Post 3708961)

You don't need those. All you need is a hitch receiver pin and a recovery strap. Saves some money, and it works even better.

Or one of those mythical jeeps that can't get stuck that pops up every few months around here. Then you would not have to worry about it at all.

JReed615 05-01-2013 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3708979)

Or one of those mythical jeeps that can't get stuck that pops up every few months around here. Then you would not have to worry about it at all.

Sounds expensive. :eek:

amarillojeepguy 05-01-2013 11:58 PM

Lmao......mine gets stuck too much....I had to crawl out the window last time

WatchThis! 05-02-2013 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JReed615 (Post 3708985)

Sounds expensive. :eek:

Nah. Something about a 2.5 inch lift with 33 nittos on 20 inch rockstars seems cast a spell on the mysterious jeeps.

WatchThis! 05-02-2013 12:03 AM

Any who.. it is not a good idea to pull on something by the ball. I have seen three come off before but they were being snatched on real damned hard. One of them took out a windshield after going threw the back glass. I try to always avoid using the ball but some times you have to.

JReed615 05-02-2013 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3708992)

Nah. Something about a 2.5 inch lift with 33 nittos on 20 inch rockstars seems cast a spell on the mysterious jeeps.

Sounds like an epic rock crawler! Still, a hitch receiver pin and a recovery strap might be slightly cheaper

Bluedog225 05-02-2013 06:28 AM

Thanks all.

DigDug 05-02-2013 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3709002)
I try to always avoid using the ball but some times you have to.

^^^BAD IDEA!^^^

This was just the first of many to pop up when I Google'd it:

Mother Of Three Killed In Bizarre Towing Accident - The Dreamin Demon

Yeah, I know. Some genius will read it and say it was rusty. Keep Google'n. Many more injured or killed by "perfectly good" ones. I was actually in voir dire on a personal injury suit many years ago for just that kind of failure. I wasn't selected as a juror because the plantiff's lawyers could probably tell they wouldn't get me to find any fault on the ball manufacturers side. It is NOT for recovery.

Better to tie a rope to the spare tire. It might not fly as far!

chipmonk66gt 05-02-2013 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amarillojeepguy
Lmao......mine gets stuck too much....I had to crawl out the window last time

I'm not sure if that means you are doing it wrong or doing it right.

legitposter 05-02-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amarillojeepguy (Post 3708558)
...much stronger and can jerk on it and be somewhat more comfortable your not gonna rip the cross member off.....

That's what I said to her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gbobva (Post 3708639)
...2 in the front, and one in the rear. ...

That's what she said to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkjeeper06 (Post 3708737)
...That will reduce the yanking effect. Winches are slow so they don't yank anyway if you get pulled by that...

You get what you pay for with wenches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amarillojeepguy (Post 3708986)
Lmao......mine gets stuck too much....I had to crawl out the window last time

That's a good problem to have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3709002)
Any who.. it is not a good idea to pull on something by the ball. I have seen three come off before but they were being snatched on real damned hard. One of them took out a windshield after going threw the back glass. I try to always avoid using the ball but some times you have to.

That's what she warned me of.

derf 05-02-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3709002)
Any who.. it is not a good idea to pull on something by the ball. I have seen three come off before but they were being snatched on real damned hard. One of them took out a windshield after going threw the back glass. I try to always avoid using the ball but some times you have to.

Using a tow ball as a recovery point is as stupid as putting IFS on a Wrangler.

NEVER do it. Using a hitch ball can and does kill people. It is NEVER an option you want to use. Ever.

It only takes a minute to set up your recovery strap safely.

All you have to do is take the receiver out of the hitch, stick the loop of your recovery strap into the receiver and run the pin through. That safely secures the recovery strap.

WatchThis! 05-02-2013 11:19 AM

So what do you do when you have no strap and only have a chain or cable or maybe a strap that wont work with a hitch? And there is also no where else to tie on to? Only solution I have is to tie into the hitch using the ball only to keep whatever you use to tie on with from falling off. Of course you never want to just loop it around the ball, bit I guess not everone knows that.

Yes I know this is not ideal by far but let's be realistic you will not allways have all of your recovery equipment with you. Some times you have to improvise. And yes I know chains can be dangerous if used improperly.(have been using them for 13 years in the oilfield and have had plent of experience with what you can and can't do with them, including rigging classes) But if you understand the limitation of your equipment then I see nothing wrong with it.

Of course if you are not sure or can't do It without having to snatch and jerk on a setup like this then it is time to call someone else in.

derf 05-02-2013 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3710424)
So what do you do when you have no strap and only have a chain or cable or maybe a strap that wont work with a hitch? And there is also no where else to tie on to? Only solution I have is to tie into the hitch using the ball only to keep whatever you use to tie on with from falling off. Of course you never want to just loop it around the ball, bit I guess not everone knows that.

Yes I know this is not ideal by far but let's be realistic you will not allways have all of your recovery equipment with you. Some times you have to improvise. And yes I know chains can be dangerous if used improperly.(have been using them for 13 years in the oilfield and have had plent of experience with what you can and can't do with them, including rigging classes) But if you understand the limitation of your equipment then I see nothing wrong with it.

Of course if you are not sure or can't do It without having to snatch and jerk on a setup like this then it is time to call someone else in.

First things first.

Never go out with just a chain. That's even more ignorant than using a tow ball. Cables too are a bad idea. I can't imagine that you would deliberately go out with a chain or a cable but not a strap. Take the right gear or don't take any at all.

And yes, let us be realistic. If you're not smart enough to pack the right gear in the first place, perhaps you really do need Darwin to pay you a visit.

Besides, it doesn't take but a minute to pull the hitch out of the receiver and hook up your strap safely. It's even faster to put the strap around the hook that came with your Jeep from the factory.

There is absolutely no excuse for being stupidly dangerous. Ever.

A lot of people have been killed right after they said "I've been doing it this way for decades and never had a problem".

Packing the right kind of strap and hooking it up correctly is no more effort than doing it wrong so why would you do the stupid and dangerous thing when the safe and effective thing is as easy or easier?

I've run into people like you who think you can use chains and tow balls out on the trail. Honestly I have refused to help a couple of them because they refused to do things safely. I'll sit back and watch with my phone in my hand to call for a medical evac if it's necessary but I won't participate. In my years I've seen bumpers fly off, axles ripped out from under trucks, hooks snap and go flying. I've been lucky so far in that I've never seen anyone hurt or killed. Yet.

When it comes to recovery, there is no excuse for half assing it. Ever. Giving people advice that they can make due with dangerous equipment and rigging is on the verge of being criminally negligent. It's stupid. It's dangerous. It can get people killed. I don't want to see your casual attitude towards safety end up costing people their health or their life.

michiganadam 05-02-2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 3710364)
Using a tow ball as a recovery point is as stupid as putting IFS on a Wrangler.

NEVER do it. Using a hitch ball can and does kill people. It is NEVER an option you want to use. Ever.

It only takes a minute to set up your recovery strap safely.

All you have to do is take the receiver out of the hitch, stick the loop of your recovery strap into the receiver and run the pin through. That safely secures the recovery strap.

Was there ever an ifs wrangler? I have a coworker who tried to talk crap about my wrangler cause it has a solid axle. Says he had a tj with ifs. im thinking hes full of crap? Id rather have a solid axle...

jkjeeper06 05-02-2013 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiganadam (Post 3710671)

Was there ever an ifs wrangler? I have a coworker who tried to talk crap about my wrangler cause it has a solid axle. Says he had a tj with ifs. im thinking hes full of crap? Id rather have a solid axle...

Yeah there has never been an ifs wrangler and hopefully never will be. They switched to coil springs for the TJ and that was really frowned upon at first but is actually better for the most part

derf 05-02-2013 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiganadam (Post 3710671)
Was there ever an ifs wrangler? I have a coworker who tried to talk crap about my wrangler cause it has a solid axle. Says he had a tj with ifs. im thinking hes full of crap? Id rather have a solid axle...

It's a conversion some people have done. No idea why they want to turn a perfectly capable Jeep into a mall crawler but it's been done.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f19/ifs...it-239222.html

WatchThis! 05-02-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 3710633)

First things first.

Never go out with just a chain. That's even more ignorant than using a tow ball. Cables too are a bad idea. I can't imagine that you would deliberately go out with a chain or a cable but not a strap. Take the right gear or don't take any at all.

And yes, let us be realistic. If you're not smart enough to pack the right gear in the first place, perhaps you really do need Darwin to pay you a visit.

Besides, it doesn't take but a minute to pull the hitch out of the receiver and hook up your strap safely. It's even faster to put the strap around the hook that came with your Jeep from the factory.

There is absolutely no excuse for being stupidly dangerous. Ever.

A lot of people have been killed right after they said "I've been doing it this way for decades and never had a problem".

Packing the right kind of strap and hooking it up correctly is no more effort than doing it wrong so why would you do the stupid and dangerous thing when the safe and effective thing is as easy or easier?

I've run into people like you who think you can use chains and tow balls out on the trail. Honestly I have refused to help a couple of them because they refused to do things safely. I'll sit back and watch with my phone in my hand to call for a medical evac if it's necessary but I won't participate. In my years I've seen bumpers fly off, axles ripped out from under trucks, hooks snap and go flying. I've been lucky so far in that I've never seen anyone hurt or killed. Yet.

When it comes to recovery, there is no excuse for half assing it. Ever. Giving people advice that they can make due with dangerous equipment and rigging is on the verge of being criminally negligent. It's stupid. It's dangerous. It can get people killed. I don't want to see your casual attitude towards safety end up costing people their health or their life.

Let me clarify. What if we were talking about not being kn the trail and not being in your jeep. Say you are just helping out you brother-in-law or who ever when you happen to be close in a worm truck or something....... but I allready know ykur answer and I will informe all the heavy rigging companies we use that that better throw away there chains and cables to move and drag around loads in access of 80, 000 lbs.

WatchThis! 05-02-2013 01:49 PM

Back to the O.P. in case you haven't figures out tieing on to the ball is a very dangerous idea. And since managing risk is a bad idea it is best to never ever get yourself in a spot where you might have to do something that might be risky. I suggest you don't even do anything that might get you or someone else stuck.

In all seriousness buying a ball for the sole purpose of recovery is a BAD idea. I guess I should have said that in my first post in this thread.

derf 05-02-2013 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3710923)
Let me clarify. What if we were talking about not being kn the trail and not being in your jeep. Say you are just helping out you brother-in-law or who ever when you happen to be close in a worm truck or something....... but I allready know ykur answer and I will informe all the heavy rigging companies we use that that better throw away there chains and cables to move and drag around loads in access of 80, 000 lbs.

How stupid of me. We all go out as part of a professional rigging crew and only get stuck near their equipment. What on earth was I thinking about... :doh:


:banghead:

WatchThis! 05-02-2013 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derf (Post 3711300)

How stupid of me. We all go out as part of a professional rigging crew and only get stuck near their equipment. What on earth was I thinking about... :doh:

:banghead:

Exactly. Just like we all only get stuck in jeeps or only help people if we are in our jeep. It is obvious you are only going to try to find something wrong with whatever someone says insted of actually understanding thinking about what they ment. We all can pick each others post abart and turn them into something different then what was ment. I bet oif I spent a few minutes in the mind frame I could quote words out of you post and makr them look like what ever I want to.(might be able to call you stupid to make myself feel big or whatever people get out of it) But I don't have time or even care to do it. I have got to go check the chains on the jeep and buggy and hit the road for 8 hours till I get to where we are wheeling this weekend. That is after I clean my ass because this thread is only worth reading on the crapper now.


Oh and OP did you deside on a bettet option for recovrry? The stock hook in the back does work great and not having a hitch in the back gives you a little bit more clearance in certain situations.

derf 05-02-2013 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchThis! (Post 3711586)
Exactly. Just like we all only get stuck in jeeps or only help people if we are in our jeep. It is obvious you are only going to try to find something wrong with whatever someone says insted of actually understanding thinking about what they ment. We all can pick each others post abart and turn them into something different then what was ment. I bet oif I spent a few minutes in the mind frame I could quote words out of you post and makr them look like what ever I want to.(might be able to call you stupid to make myself feel big or whatever people get out of it) But I don't have time or even care to do it. I have got to go check the chains on the jeep and buggy and hit the road for 8 hours till I get to where we are wheeling this weekend. That is after I clean my ass because this thread is only worth reading on the crapper now.


Oh and OP did you deside on a bettet option for recovrry? The stock hook in the back does work great and not having a hitch in the back gives you a little bit more clearance in certain situations.

Are you going out of your way to be this obtuse or does it come naturally?

Bluedog225 05-02-2013 11:38 PM

Thanks all. I will use the factory points or strap in the receiver.

Is there a decent training video on proper recovery technique? I've heard of classes but none near here. Thanks.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 AM.