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-   -   First oil change... Wow 5w/20 is like water (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/first-oil-change-wow-5w-20-is-like-water-239728.html)

TOK 05-02-2013 11:39 AM

First oil change... Wow 5w/20 is like water
 
Yea I know, another oil thread. :facepalm:

My Jeep is at about 700 miles and I wanted to switch over to synthetic. I have always used 10w/30 or 10w/40 Mobil 1 depending on the vehicle, and never had one that called for a 5w base oil.

The bulk of the factory oil came out of the pan in about five seconds. I'm actually wondering if this is a CAFE thing to squeak an extra 10th of a MPG out of the Pentastar rather than a protection thing.

No visible metal shavings in the pan or on the filter, so I'm going to go to a regular 4k oil change schedule but I'm considering going to 10w/30 if I hit that mileage by the hottest part of Summer.

PS: The JK is an absolute *breeze* to do an oil change on. Ironically, this is mainly due to lack of undercarriage protection. My 2 less off-road worthy pickups (Titan & Tacoma) both have factory metal skid plates protecting the oil pan that have to be removed. :whistling:

Jeeps_and_Boats 05-02-2013 11:43 AM

And the filter is pretty much a snap. Love that design.

Old Dogger 05-02-2013 12:48 PM

WOW, another synthetic oil user. The oil company's will love you!!!
I need to buy some more Mobil stocks so I can retire some day.
Thank you for helping my retirement..................

What ever oil you use, 5w/30 is a good multi viscosity.

jadmt 05-02-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dogger (Post 3710777)
WOW, another synthetic oil user. The oil company's will love you!!!
I need to buy some more Mobil stocks so I can retire some day.
Thank you for helping my retirement..................

What ever oil you use, 5w/30 is a good multi viscosity.

My good friend is a millionair because of Mobil stock. He worked for them and part of his wage was paid in stock and about 15 years ago sold his stock and was instantly rich.

microage97 05-02-2013 01:00 PM

Mobil 1 5W/20 user here. After tearing down my motorcycle after long used synth I will never go back. It was like brand new on the insides.

Dave

overblown 05-02-2013 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dogger (Post 3710777)
WOW, another synthetic oil user. The oil company's will love you!!!
I need to buy some more Mobil stocks so I can retire some day.
Thank you for helping my retirement..................

What ever oil you use, 5w/30 is a good multi viscosity.

Sounds a little sarcastic/condescending. I thought you were all about being kind and the like :rofl:

Tok, I understand what you're saying about cafe. But keep in mind that thicker oil is NOT always better for engines and can actually do more harm than good. How thick is too thick? Good question. Yet, it's also a question you don't even need to answer if you just stick within the parameters set from the manufacturer.

jadmt 05-02-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overblown (Post 3711155)
Sounds a little sarcastic/condescending. I thought you were all about being kind and the like :rofl:

Tok, I understand what you're saying about cafe. But keep in mind that thicker oil is NOT always better for engines and can actually do more harm than good. How thick is too thick? Good question. Yet, it's also a question you don't even need to answer if you just stick within the parameters set from the manufacturer.

Yup:thumb:

legitposter 05-02-2013 02:52 PM

I use Pennzoil Platinum. Yes, 5w-20 is like water.

For those that hate on synthetic oil.. They're the same people that still watch over-the-air television and have land-line phones in their house. They probably read print media as well.

Newsflash: It's 2013.

Ignore them.

Old Dogger 05-02-2013 03:09 PM

:rofl:
Quote:

Originally Posted by overblown (Post 3711155)
Sounds a little sarcastic/condescending. I thought you were all about being kind and the like :rofl:

Tok, I understand what you're saying about cafe. But keep in mind that thicker oil is NOT always better for engines and can actually do more harm than good. How thick is too thick? Good question. Yet, it's also a question you don't even need to answer if you just stick within the parameters set from the manufacturer.

Yes, I was being very kind and respectful to this Gentlemen for purchasing the more expensive oil, which in turn will help my oil stocks to skyrocket! :D
After all we hope that the oil company's profits continue to improve/ increase, which in turn helps our economy, and boy does it ever need help!
overblown, it's always good to hear from you! You just made my day!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN BE ANY KINDER THAN THIS...:confused:

TOK 05-02-2013 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dogger (Post 3710777)
WOW, another synthetic oil user. The oil company's will love you!!!
I need to buy some more Mobil stocks so I can retire some day.
Thank you for helping my retirement..................

What ever oil you use, 5w/30 is a good multi viscosity.

Not claiming to be a millionaire, but I was able to pay cash for my Jeep thanks to dummies that can't go 5 seconds without internet access. We all choose our vices, I guess. :thumb:

Like Dave said, I started using synthetic once I saw how well it worked in motorcycle engines. Many of those were air cooled and had a lower oil capacity, making them really hard on oil, but its an extra 20 or 30 bucks a couple times a year -cheap peace of mind as far as I'm concerned.

YJ Bill 05-02-2013 03:20 PM

Newer engines have tight tolerances and need lighter oils. At least in some cases, not sure about he pentastar.

Old Dogger 05-02-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOK (Post 3711270)
Not claiming to be a millionaire, but I was able to pay cash for my Jeep thanks to dummies that can't go 5 seconds without internet access. We all choose our vices, I guess. :thumb:

Like Dave said, I started using synthetic once I saw how well it worked in motorcycle engines. Many of those were air cooled and had a lower oil capacity, making them really hard on oil, but its an extra 20 or 30 bucks a couple times a year -cheap peace of mind as far as I'm concerned.

Congrats on paying cash and being successful in your work endeavor's!
I on the other hand am 79 years old and am in debit up to my ears. I'm out digging ditches every day just to try to put food on the table. I only have a forth grade education so I am one of those. I have asked Obama for some food stamps, but his answer was NO WAY, BECAUSE YOU ARE TO OLD. He only wants to save them for all of the illegals. Well, I guess that's not all bad, because at least they get to eat.

On a serious note, If that is possible for me? Synthetic, Conventional, Brand, viscosity, it really doesn't matter, just change it!:thumb:

legitposter 05-02-2013 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dogger (Post 3711332)
Congrats on paying cash and being successful in your work endeavor's!
I on the other hand am 79 years old and am in debit up to my ears. I'm out digging ditches every day just to try to put food on the table. I only have a forth grade education so I am one of those. I have asked Obama for some food stamps, but his answer was NO WAY, BECAUSE YOU ARE TO OLD. He only wants to save them for all of the illegals. Well, I guess that's not all bad, because at least they get to eat.

On a serious note, If that is possible for me? Synthetic, Conventional, Brand, viscosity, it really doesn't matter, just change it!:thumb:

I thought you were gone for good? :confused:

Old Dogger 05-02-2013 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legitposter (Post 3711436)
I thought you were gone for good? :confused:

Good is a broad term, that has many meanings!
I'm like flushing a turd down the toilet and it decided to float and reappear!
You and a couple of the others are just too much fun for me to give up, but I did have to go buy another box of tissues to wipe away my laughing tears!
Since I am a old dumb Coot, well this gives me a opportunity to learn from well educated and knowledgeable individuals like yourself. Maybe help to point me in the right direction. WD40 in the engine instead of oil HUMMMMMM, maybe less parasitic loss, what do you think?
Did I say that correctly, O well my ALHEIMERS just continues to get worse.:confused:
Legit, be kind and help a old man out.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

legitposter 05-02-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dogger (Post 3711556)
Good is a broad term, that has many meanings!
I'm like flushing a turd down the toilet and it decided to float and reappear!
You and a couple of the others are just too much fun for me to give up, but I did have to go buy another box of tissues to wipe away my laughing tears!
Since I am a old dumb Coot, well this gives me a opportunity to learn from well educated and knowledgeable individuals like yourself. Maybe help to point me in the right direction. WD40 in the engine instead of oil HUMMMMMM, maybe less parasitic loss, what do you think?
Did I say that correctly, O well my ALHEIMERS just continues to get worse.:confused:
Legit, be kind and help a old man out.:rofl::rofl::rofl:

What's funny is if we ever met in real life we'd probably be all touchy feely and hugging and all this fairy stuff. So yeah.

tomthbomb 05-02-2013 06:10 PM

When I figure the number of miles between oil changes to dollars spent for synthetic vs. regular oil it is a wash. That is not counting the time spent changing the oil which ups the advantage for synthetic.

jadmt 05-02-2013 06:15 PM

damn 8000 miles and my "change oil" indicator still has not triggered. 2013 jku.

Old Dogger 05-02-2013 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legitposter (Post 3711640)
What's funny is if we ever met in real life we'd probably be all touchy feely and hugging and all this fairy stuff. So yeah.

Even though you are very smart and witty, I'm just not sure that you would be making a good decision if we met in real life. Because of lack of money they turned off my water so I haven't taken a bath, or shower in over a year. Plus I don't have any money to buy deodorant. I'm so ripe, that I can't stand myself.:hide:
So most of your ideas/suggestions are genius, I would think twice about this one..............:nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono:: nonono:

I apologize to the rest of you members and the op for getting this thread off target, but I just could not resist responding to him, again, my apologies!

TOK 05-02-2013 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadmt (Post 3711871)
damn 8000 miles and my "change oil" indicator still has not triggered. 2013 jku.

I thought the spec was no more than 8k regardless of the indicator?

metaldemon 05-02-2013 07:38 PM

I find it weird that the 2012 Pentastar uses 5-30w, and the 2013 uses 5-20w. I am using the 5-30w in my 2012, but I really don't like the light weight of the oil. I have always used 10-30w in the winter, and 10-40w in the summer. In North Carolina I used 20-50w in the summer. Although these Pentastar engine have a variable vane oil pump. It is electrically controlled, which make me think of all the problems later down the road. We are never going to get the miles from these engines that we got from the 4.0 liter. That is why I kept my old Jeep.

Miser 05-02-2013 07:55 PM

I have a 2013 Rubicon and after a lengthy conversation with my Dealers Service Manager, whom has a 2013 Sahara, we are both using 5w/30. The 5 viscosity gets the oil quicker at start up and the 30w at normal operating temperature will offer the needed oil film of protection. Please keep in mind that we are in Phoenix and we have already seen over 100 degrees this year.
Their Service Manager has been back to the plant this year and has not been able to get any justification as to why 2012 5w/30 and 2013 5w/20 recommendations. His take on it is for them to meet the Federal mandate on fuel consumption, they are using lighter oil for less parasitic loss.
It just doesn't make sense.

As to will the Pentastar run as long as the 4.0. Well very few engines if any do.
Only time will tell.

st1264 05-02-2013 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miser (Post 3712293)
I have a 2013 Rubicon and after a lengthy conversation with my Dealers Service Manager, whom has a 2013 Sahara, we are both using 5w/30. The 5 viscosity gets the oil quicker at start up and the 30w at normal operating temperature will offer the needed oil film of protection. Please keep in mind that we are in Phoenix and we have already seen over 100 degrees this year.
Their Service Manager has been back to the plant this year and has not been able to get any justification as to why 2012 5w/30 and 2013 5w/20 recommendations. His take on it is for them to meet the Federal mandate on fuel consumption, they are using lighter oil for less parasitic loss.
It just doesn't make sense.

As to will the Pentastar run as long as the 4.0. Well very few engines if any do.
Only time will tell.

Doubt it. 4.0 was a beast. Hard to duplicate that.

It seems nobody agrees (including the experts) on the synthetic/conventional debate so I'll just do my own thing.

TOK 05-02-2013 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miser (Post 3712293)
Their Service Manager has been back to the plant this year and has not been able to get any justification as to why 2012 5w/30 and 2013 5w/20 recommendations. His take on it is for them to meet the Federal mandate on fuel consumption, they are using lighter oil for less parasitic loss.
It just doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was it, which is why I made the CAFE reference in my initial post... Corporate Average Fuel Economy calculates the average MPG across their fleet.

The goal for now to 2016 is 35 mpg and for 2017 on its 39. Since it is averaged across the model line, for every 12 MPG Ram or Viper that is sold, everything else has to pick up the slack to stay above average.

I think all trucks below 8500lbs are factored in, which is why you see Dodge doing the 4/6/8 thing, Ford pushing turbo V6's and Chevy offering mild hybrid trucks. It gets to the point where 1/10th of a MPG across the fleet matters.

My concern is that I'm doing all my own oil changes (stapling my receipts in a book), my oil cap calls for 5w/20, I want to run 5 or 10w/30, and Chrysler seems to want to void warranties on any technicality they can find.

Maybe I should pick up a 2012 oil filler cap and play stupid(er). ;)

Miser 05-02-2013 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st1264 (Post 3712351)
Doubt it. 4.0 was a beast. Hard to duplicate that.

It seems nobody agrees (including the experts) on the synthetic/conventional debate so I'll just do my own thing.

I agree with you on both subjects! I had a 4.0 in a 2003 TJ and yes, that engine has a track record of second to none. Some of the Members are getting over 300,000 miles with no major failures. That's just unheard of!

As for Synthetic, verses Conventional. I am a conventional guy and for every positive thing that I say about Conventional somebody else will say the same for synthetic. So it is a mute point and the discussion would be endless, with no resolve. I'm confident that your engine will have a lot of longevity with either or as long as it gets changed.
Good Luck with your choice!:thumb:

Miser 05-02-2013 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOK (Post 3712358)
I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was it, which is why I made the CAFE reference in my initial post... Corporate Average Fuel Economy calculates the average MPG across their fleet.

The goal for now to 2016 is 35 mpg and for 2017 on its 39. Since it is averaged across the model line, for every 12 MPG Ram or Viper that is sold, everything else has to pick up the slack to stay above average.

I think all trucks below 8500lbs are factored in, which is why you see Dodge doing the 4/6/8 thing, Ford pushing turbo V6's and Chevy offering mild hybrid trucks. It gets to the point where 1/10th of a MPG across the fleet matters.

My concern is that I'm doing all my own oil changes (stapling my receipts in a book), my oil cap calls for 5w/20, I want to run 5 or 10w/30, and Chrysler seems to want to void warranties on any technicality they can find.

Maybe I should pick up a 2012 oil filler cap and play stupid(er). ;)

I also change my own oil. I do understand your concern, but do not feel that warranty would be voided by using 5w/30, rather than 5w/20. Particularly in a high ambient temperature climate where I live. If I lived in Alaska, then I would probably stick with the 5w/20.
I'm not going to lose any sleep over it and lets just keep our fingers crossed that we don't have a oil related failure.:thumb:

chris4x4 05-02-2013 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miser (Post 3712293)
I have a 2013 Rubicon and after a lengthy conversation with my Dealers Service Manager, whom has a 2013 Sahara, we are both using 5w/30. The 5 viscosity gets the oil quicker at start up and the 30w at normal operating temperature will offer the needed oil film of protection. Please keep in mind that we are in Phoenix and we have already seen over 100 degrees this year.
Their Service Manager has been back to the plant this year and has not been able to get any justification as to why 2012 5w/30 and 2013 5w/20 recommendations. His take on it is for them to meet the Federal mandate on fuel consumption, they are using lighter oil for less parasitic loss.
It just doesn't make sense.

As to will the Pentastar run as long as the 4.0. Well very few engines if any do.
Only time will tell.

Although the 5w-30 has a larger temperature operating range, the "lighter" 5w-20 will help keep the engine cooler in the summers out here. The thinner oil will shed heat, and collect it faster than the 30 wt. as well as reduce heat from friction. To add, with the 20 wt., the oil pump can pump more volume than with the 30 wt. Adding the tight tollerances in the engine, bearings, etc., and that the VVT system uses oil pressure to operate correctly, unless proven other wise, it might be best to stick with the 5w-20 as recomended. Modern oils still offer fantastic protection, even at the thinner weights. Oil is non compressable, so as long as there is a film between metal parts, all is good. And thinner oil creates less friction. My take is this......is the 5w-20 oil more for getting better mpg out of a vehicle, or are engines being manufactured to closer tolerances, with smaller (more narow) oil passages, tighter bearing fitments/tolerances, and such to get a more efficient engine? If switching to a lighter oil was a magic bullit to get better mpg, I think more manufactures would be throwing it in their engines. But with modern VVT systems, and much tighter tollerances, the thinner oil might be required to better cool, and lubricate the internals.

tomthbomb 05-02-2013 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadmt (Post 3711871)
damn 8000 miles and my "change oil" indicator still has not triggered. 2013 jku.

Keep on driving. The dashboard leader will instruct you.

lexington01 05-02-2013 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4x4 (Post 3712530)
Although the 5w-30 has a larger temperature operating range, the "lighter" 5w-20 will help keep the engine cooler in the summers out here. The thinner oil will shed heat, and collect it faster than the 30 wt. as well as reduce heat from friction.

I'm no engineer, but I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I have a hard time believing that the oil has much to do with engine temperature. That's the cooling system's job, not the oil.

I'm betting this is something that's been proven in a lab, but has little to do with real world applications. I'd be surprised if the oil type influenced the engine temp more than a couple of degrees. But like I said, I'm no engineer so I'd be interested to see some studies on this.

SilverSport 05-02-2013 10:27 PM

Motor oil is responsible for a large percentage of the cooling that takes place within your engine. Your radiator (anti-freeze system) is only responsible for cooling the upper portion of your engine. The rest (crankshaft, camshaft, timing gears, pistons, main and connecting rod bearings and many other critical engine components are cooled mainly by the motor oil within your engine.
Heat is generated within an engine from both the combustion process and the friction caused by the motion of engine components. As oil passes through the system it is directed onto these hot surfaces in order to carry the heat away to the oil pan. From here the heat is dissipated to the air surrounding the pan.

Read more: What Does Oil Do - The Motor Oil Evaluator

lexington01 05-02-2013 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSport (Post 3712982)
Motor oil is responsible for a large percentage of the cooling that takes place within your engine. Your radiator (anti-freeze system) is only responsible for cooling the upper portion of your engine. The rest (crankshaft, camshaft, timing gears, pistons, main and connecting rod bearings and many other critical engine components are cooled mainly by the motor oil within your engine.
Heat is generated within an engine from both the combustion process and the friction caused by the motion of engine components. As oil passes through the system it is directed onto these hot surfaces in order to carry the heat away to the oil pan. From here the heat is dissipated to the air surrounding the pan.

Read more: What Does Oil Do - The Motor Oil Evaluator

Okay so I was wrong about that half of the equation, but would 5w-20 really offer any measurable difference in engine temperature over 5w-30?


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