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-   -   3.5" lift, stock control arms? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/3-5-lift-stock-control-arms-243760.html)

SkiBoy806 05-19-2013 10:15 PM

3.5" lift, stock control arms?
 
A local guy is selling a set of rubicon express 3.5" lift springs for a tj. Will i need aftermarket control arms? What else will i need? I have shocks for a 4" lift as well.

UnlimitedLJ04 05-19-2013 10:27 PM

yes, you'll need aftermarket control arms. Also, figure on many of the following components: longer front brake lines, extended sway bar links front and rear, regearing the axles, brake and steering upgrades to accommodate larger tires, CV rear driveshaft, bumpstop extensions, new shocks, adjustable track bars, and a rear track bar bracket.

Jaxon1023 05-19-2013 10:42 PM

You can use the stock uppers. Will need longer lowers

UnlimitedLJ04 05-19-2013 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxon1023 (Post 3772833)
You can use the stock uppers. Will need longer lowers

* applies to the front only.

Jaxon1023 05-19-2013 11:02 PM

Wrong. My 4" lift has the stock rear uppers aswell ;)

larjeep 05-19-2013 11:07 PM

U only need the lowers. U can also buy fixed to save some cash.

UnlimitedLJ04 05-19-2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxon1023 (Post 3772902)
Wrong. My 4" lift has the stock rear uppers aswell ;)

with a giant transfer case drop and a significant loss in belly clearance ? and you think the stock arms will support the flex of a 4" lift for the long term...nope.

spencerlj 05-19-2013 11:13 PM

Where is the actual cutoff?
 
I had this same question on my 3" BDS Suspension lift. The basic lift came with shocks, Springs and Sway bars and the control arms were optional. I talked with my installer and local tire dealer and some other local TJ owners and all agreed that control arms were optional. In another thread I had on my lift that I just had installed, I heard from UnlimitedLJ04 who at that time suggested the Control arms.

I have been running the lift for about 3 weeks and had no trouble with the stock control arms, both upper and lower. So my question is like the OP, but a little more specific, when do you WANT to have then vs NEED/HAVE to have them and why?

Jaxon1023 05-19-2013 11:15 PM

Nope I have an sye and Cv driveshaft. I had minimal vibes so yes I added a 1" drop on my transfer case but could easly replace that with a 1" mml

UnlimitedLJ04 05-19-2013 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spencerlj (Post 3772941)
I had this same question on my 3" BDS Suspension lift. The basic lift came with shocks, Springs and Sway bars and the control arms were optional. I talked with my installer and local tire dealer and some other local TJ owners and all agreed that control arms were optional. In another thread I had on my lift that I just had installed, I heard from UnlimitedLJ04 who at that time suggested the Control arms.

I have been running the lift for about 3 weeks and had no trouble with the stock control arms, both upper and lower. So my question is like the OP, but a little more specific, when do you WANT to have then vs NEED/HAVE to have them and why?

so here's the thing: it's about what you're willing to tolerate, and how ignorant you are to axle position and caster.

once you figure out how to get correct axle position, and allow the arms to properly do their jobs throughout the suspension cycle, you'll notice a few things. Stock lowers in front won't give you enough caster, and cam bolts just won't cut it past about 2" of lift. Stock front uppers can be the last to be replaced, but they can eventually tear in half from over-flex & torsion. The stock rear lowers can work with some lift, but eventually you need to fix the axle position and driveshaft alignment - and you actually need to lengthen the rear uppers and SHORTEN the rear lowers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxon1023 (Post 3772952)
Nope I have an sye and Cv driveshaft. I had minimal vibes so yes I added a 1" drop on my transfer case but could easly replace that with a 1" mml

no, your driveshaft alignment will be hosed. you at least need adjustable uppers.

but using just adjustable uppers will push the track bar and diff into the gas tank...so if you want correct axle position, you also need to shorten the rear lowers when you extend the rear uppers.

read here: What is a CV shaft and why do I want one? - JeepForum.com

Jaxon1023 05-20-2013 12:06 AM

Yes I know all about the whole axle alignment thing through research. The question was asked does he need this. To get you down the road, no. I have no vibes or death wobble with my setup. Do I want adjustables. Sure I do when the money is right.

spencerlj 05-20-2013 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 3772971)
so here's the thing: it's about what you're willing to tolerate, and how ignorant you are to axle position and caster.


read here: What is a CV shaft and why do I want one? - JeepForum.com

I appreciate the help and the education. I don't appreciate the name calling. We are ASKING for help, not saying we know how things work. I actually did ask for assistance and the reasons why, which I believe is realistic and why the forums exist.

I appreciate the link, but ask for courtesy on your posts to those of us asking for advice.

Jeeping it real 05-21-2013 08:02 AM

"Ignorance" just means lack of knowledge. Don't think he was calling you "dumb" or "stupid".

Arch Stanton 05-21-2013 08:35 AM

What about a 2" BDS lift? Can you run stock control arms?

SkiBoy806 05-21-2013 10:02 AM

Thanks for the info, Will adjustable skyjacker upper and lowers with johnny joints work well with these springs? Also how are johnny joints on the road? this jeep is also my dd.

UnlimitedLJ04 05-21-2013 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeping it real (Post 3777500)
"Ignorance" just means lack of knowledge. Don't think he was calling you "dumb" or "stupid".

bingo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton (Post 3777563)
What about a 2" BDS lift? Can you run stock control arms?

once again, the answer is yes. you will want cam bolts to correct caster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiBoy806 (Post 3777766)
Thanks for the info, Will adjustable skyjacker upper and lowers with johnny joints work well with these springs? Also how are johnny joints on the road? this jeep is also my dd.

skyjacker doesn't use Johnny Joints. Johnny Joints are a Currie product. If you want Johnny Joints, you'll need to buy arms that use Currie ends...everything else is a knock-off "flex-joint".

OhSixTJ 05-22-2013 08:54 PM

So what arms are most needed?


I have an SYE so I have adjustable rear uppers. My thrust angle is a hair off. I won't really be doing any rock crawling because there isn't really anywhere to go locally, it'll mainly be mud an rough ranch roads.

So does it benefit me to get rear lower adjustable a to correct a .25 degree variance of thrust angle?

As for the front, stock uppers and fixed lowers. Caster is at 6.5 degrees on 33s (actually 31.5 right now).

If I were to buy just one set for the front, I'm guessing it should be lowers?

Thanks in advance.

Jaxon1023 05-22-2013 08:57 PM

Isn't thrust angle determined by rear track bar?

OhSixTJ 05-22-2013 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxon1023 (Post 3783434)
Isn't thrust angle determined by rear track bar?

Track bar only keeps the axle centered (left to right) under the jeep. Thrust angle is the 2 axles not being parallel to each other when viewed "from above"

Jaxon1023 05-22-2013 09:32 PM

Gotcha

Jaxon1023 05-22-2013 09:40 PM

So I have pro comp fixed lower arms and stock uppers and stock rear track bar with bracket but not the curved kind. I have sye and cv shaft and my thrust angle is .31. I have a transfer case drop but plan on getting metal cloak rear uppers first and the lowers eventually to replace the pro comps. Will the uppers fix the thrust angle?

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o...89B894176B.jpg

OhSixTJ 05-22-2013 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxon1023 (Post 3783590)
So I have pro comp fixed lower arms and stock uppers and stock rear track bar with bracket but not the curved kind. I have sye and cv shaft and my thrust angle is .31. I have a transfer case drop but plan on getting metal cloak rear uppers first and the lowers eventually to replace the pro comps. Will the uppers fix the thrust angle?

I'd guess no. Because the lowers will still be in the same spot.

spencerlj 05-24-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxon1023 (Post 3783590)
So I have pro comp fixed lower arms and stock uppers and stock rear track bar with bracket but not the curved kind. I have sye and cv shaft and my thrust angle is .31. I have a transfer case drop but plan on getting metal cloak rear uppers first and the lowers eventually to replace the pro comps. Will the uppers fix the thrust angle?

I love the detail here. To continue my own education, how did you come up with the exact measurements you show in your pic and where do you find out what the ideal measurements for all angles should be? I am very interested in finding out as much as I can on what I need, why I need it and how to determine ideal setups on the suspension. I have continued to search and find bits and pieces but nothing specific and comprehensive in one spot. Maybe that is not readily available.

OhSixTJ 05-24-2013 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spencerlj (Post 3788636)

I love the detail here. To continue my own education, how did you come up with the exact measurements you show in your pic and where do you find out what the ideal measurements for all angles should be? I am very interested in finding out as much as I can on what I need, why I need it and how to determine ideal setups on the suspension. I have continued to search and find bits and pieces but nothing specific and comprehensive in one spot. Maybe that is not readily available.

He took it to get an alignment at a shop with a nice alignment rack.

spencerlj 05-25-2013 09:26 AM

@OhSixTJ - thank you.


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