Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   TJ Tech Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/)
-   -   Grinding noise at speed... video (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/grinding-noise-at-speed-video-244191.html)

scgeek12 05-21-2013 05:23 PM

Grinding noise at speed... video
 
Ok, I need help on this one :surrender: I am getting a constant grinding noise that is audible above 45 and gets louder as my speed increases, it gets louder with vehicle speed not engine, I can downshift and the noise does not change at all or just hold in the clutch and the noise stays the same, it sounds exactly like when the CV head on my front driveshaft needed to be replaced, and when my front axle joints needed replaced so I pulled the front driveshaft out and drove it, the noise remains (although it does seem a LITTLE quieter but that could be mental from me hoping it would not make the noise lol) when I pulled the front DS out I noticed that the front dif. yoke seems a little "loose" and it makes a noise similar to what im hearing at speed when I "wiggle" it, I can move it in and out a little, and wiggle it in any direction, also the "stud" that the big nut in the middle that holds it on moves around with it slightly (never taken it apart so not sure how it is held on exactly... assuming its just the nut)

the front axle joints and CV head on the front DS are 1-1.5 years old

any help would be greatly appreciated!


ALSO:---- when I put it in 4wd, (high or lo) it is WAAAAY worse, and it is affected by engine speed it seems in 4wd as well, the noise starts around 5-10 mph in 4wd but if im doing 30mph in 4hi and I let off the gas the grinding noise will become inaudible... I drove it on the beach in 4wd not around town btw lol, dont want it to seem like I was test driving it in 4wd on the street :P


I just noticed I shot the whole video upsidedown :*( lol sorry, the first thing im moving around is the front dif yoke, then the yoke on the T-case for the front DS, then the LH axle joint, then the RH axle joint, then the T-case side of the rear DS, then the rear dif yoke / DS



IMG0673 - YouTube

flflash 05-21-2013 06:20 PM

Dude, your front diff is junk!

scgeek12 05-21-2013 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flflash (Post 3779339)
Dude, your front diff is junk!

A more elaborate answer would be greatly appreciated :)

rjdriver 05-21-2013 06:39 PM

Definitely Time to crack the seal and see what is wrong with the inside...... just with what I saw from the video .... well put it this way it doesn't look good... read up on ring and pinion gear changes and the bearing with it. what gears are you running in it, and is it an open differential?
Rob

scgeek12 05-21-2013 06:41 PM

BTW not trying to be an ass with that response, the jeep is a toy so if she needs to be parked till I can get her fixed that isnt a problem, I just need to know what to fix, can I fix it myself in the driveway with a decent set of tools and mechanical skills or am I going to need to bring it somewhere, OR should I just start looking for a new axle?

scgeek12 05-21-2013 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjdriver (Post 3779386)
Definitely Time to crack the seal and see what is wrong with the inside...... just with what I saw from the video .... well put it this way it doesn't look good... read up on ring and pinion gear changes and the bearing with it. what gears are you running in it, and is it an open differential?
Rob

4.10 gearing, will it need new gears up front? I know for a fact I do not have the tooling, time , skills, or desire to do that in my driveway lol! I am pretty sure its "open" when I jack it up off the ground completely (all 4 wheels) they all spin (in 4wd obviously) but I can stop any of them and the other will pick up the slack, I actually have a new dif. cover for it sitting next to my computer but the top bolt on the dif cover right now is stripped and I have been to lazy to get it out, guess I will have to move that priority up lol! I will say that last time I changed the fluid (about 10K miles ago.. I just took all the bolts out except the stripped one and pulled it apart as far as I could and let it drain out) I didnt notice any metal or anything, I will pull the cover off this weekend and put a pix of what I find up.


Thanks for the quick replies so far!

scgeek12 05-21-2013 06:52 PM

ALSO I bought the jeep with the 4.10s but from what I have read on here a ring / pinon change should run about $500-700 for one axle correct?

flflash 05-21-2013 06:54 PM

You have excessive ring and pinion backlash in your front differential and also seem to have extreme lateral movement in the pinion. Without disassembling the front differential and visual inspecting it I would say the pinion bearings have worn beyond usable limits possibly also damaging the ring gear and pinion.
The front differential turns at road speed with or without the driveshaft installed it's never actually disengaged. One of the first things I would recomend is to inspect the condition of your gear lube, just pull the plug and stick your finger in there if the lube has a "Metal Flake" look to it you have internal differential damage.

C.L. 05-21-2013 07:06 PM

At the very least your pinion bearings are toast. A bit of rotational play is alright, but it should be ROCK solid front to back and side to side. The noise you hear is non-axial rotation of the pinion shaft against what's left of the bearings. Putting it under load (4wd) causes more lateral movement, and further damage to the pinion bearings. If you change out the bearings and seal soon enough, the gears and carrier should be OK, but you will have to pull the carrier (that means axle shafts as well) out to get the inner bearing out of the housing.

Someone more knowledgeable than me in gearsets can tell you if changing the bearings is going to bork the backlash adjustment or not. Given that its adjusted by thousandths of an inch, and no two inner races are going to be identical in width, i suspect that it will. Save all your shims (both pinion and carrier), put them back in the EXACT place/order they came from, and hope for the best.

scgeek12 05-21-2013 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flflash (Post 3779433)
You have excessive ring and pinion backlash in your front differential and also seem to have extreme lateral movement in the pinion. Without disassembling the front differential and visual inspecting it I would say the pinion bearings have worn beyond usable limits possibly also damaging the ring gear and pinion.
The front differential turns at road speed with or without the driveshaft installed it's never actually disengaged. One of the first things I would recomend is to inspect the condition of your gear lube, just pull the plug and stick your finger in there if the lube has a "Metal Flake" look to it you have internal differential damage.

:thumb: Thank you that was a WAY more helpful response lol, I will pull the dif cover off, check the fluid for flakes and keep the jeep parked for the time being, although I am sure from what you are saying the ring gear and pinion are toast as I drove it about 300 miles like that this weekend, a lot of which was in 4wd on the beach

scgeek12 05-21-2013 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.L. (Post 3779474)
At the very least your pinion bearings are toast. A bit of rotational play is alright, but it should be ROCK solid front to back and side to side. The noise you hear is non-axial rotation of the pinion shaft against what's left of the bearings. Putting it under load (4wd) causes more lateral movement, and further damage to the pinion bearings. If you change out the bearings and seal soon enough, the gears and carrier should be OK, but you will have to pull the carrier (that means axle shafts as well) out to get the inner bearing out of the housing.

Someone more knowledgeable than me in gearsets can tell you if changing the bearings is going to bork the backlash adjustment or not. Given that its adjusted by thousandths of an inch, and no two inner races are going to be identical in width, i suspect that it will. Save all your shims (both pinion and carrier), put them back in the EXACT place/order they came from, and hope for the best.

Thank you! I pull the cover off and snap a few photos, and look for a driveline shop to get the work done at :(


Again, thanks for the quick, and knowledgeable responses! This is the reason I love WF!!

n00g7 05-21-2013 08:18 PM

sub'd to see how toasted (sorry) your diff is

scgeek12 05-21-2013 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00g7 (Post 3779762)
sub'd to see how toasted (sorry) your diff is

LOL, not a problem, the jeep is a project / toy now (served me well as a DD for 2 years) so parking it and upgrading it is all in the name of the game! lol actually pricing new axles on ECGS right now, my dad owns a few AAMCO transmission shops (2000 miles away unfortunately) and I asked him about what it should cost, he said anywhere from 700-1300, looks like I can get a whole new Dana 30 with chome shafts for about 1750... might end up going that route but I will still take the cover off this weekend and snap a few pics, kind of curious myself as to what the damage looks like after bringing it on a road trip and wheeling it on the beach for hours lol :doh:

C.L. 05-23-2013 10:16 PM

Gear metal is extremely hard, though a bit brittle. If the ring and pinion didn't bind enough to make a series of loud popping noises, there's a good chance that it's just the bearings that will need replacement. A couple good closeups of the ring gear teeth should tell the tale. Something showing both the contact/wear patch and the edges:

http://imageshack.us/a/img713/3587/img0767e.jpg

scgeek12 05-25-2013 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.L. (Post 3787495)
Gear metal is extremely hard, though a bit brittle. If the ring and pinion didn't bind enough to make a series of loud popping noises, there's a good chance that it's just the bearings that will need replacement. A couple good closeups of the ring gear teeth should tell the tale. Something showing both the contact/wear patch and the edges:

Im hoping to get a few pics either sunday night or monday, those are my days off, the 12 o'clock bolt is stripped pretty bad on the dif. cover so I will be drilling it out :(

scgeek12 06-10-2013 08:06 AM

sorry it took so long but heres the photos and a video, I found a complete axle on ebay im looking at buying right now but I need to make sure I have 4.10s and not 4.56s,.... I counted the teeth on the ring gear and came up with 40, so im assuming i counted wrong and its 41? also there is a 41 10 stamped on the ring gear itself, should be 4.10s right?


also I did not see ANY metal in the oil

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...47121030_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...76107441_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...96945915_n.jpg


https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...94783985_n.jpg


https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...20725734_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...09628327_n.jpg


video is uploading right now should have it up shortly

scgeek12 06-10-2013 08:17 AM

sorry for the crap quality its from my phone lol but this kind of shows the play when I move the yoke-


IMG 0760 - YouTube

scgeek12 07-24-2013 12:34 PM

Well I ended up finding a 4.10 dana 30 on ebay for $200 and I just took the gears out of it for mine and bought a bearing / seal rebuild kit since I had it apart, it was actually really easy, the only thing I had trouble with was the pinion nut... luckily the rebuild kit came with a new one so I just cut mine off (I took it off the donor axle at work with a big ass impact lol.. no air compressor at home) other than that the only tricky part was the axle seals themselves, I ended up cutting an aluminum mob handle to fit through the axle tubes and it fit on the seal perfect lol, little bit of persuasion and they went in, put 100 miles on it yesterday and no grinds or leaks :)


Thanks again for all the help diagnosing the problem and explaining it all!!!!

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...84417092_n.jpg


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 PM.