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-   -   Removing throttle body spacer (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f218/removing-throttle-body-spacer-244938.html)

petercass88 05-24-2013 09:52 PM

Removing throttle body spacer
 
Hey all, I am attempting to remove my throttle body spacer on my 95 4 banger. There are the 4 bolts that go all the way through the spacer into the intake manifold that I am sure will be too long once the spacer is out of the way... What bolts do I need for the stock throttle body set up?

There appears to be some shotty looking gasket on both sides of the throttle body spacer, should i reuse what is there or should i spring for a new gasket?

http://i.imgur.com/wkNjAng.jpg

AllMudd 05-24-2013 10:39 PM

Why don't you just leave it. If you take it off yes you should replace the gasket. The two surfaces are not machined the same. So the gasket may or may not seal correctly. And you will have to buy the stock mounting bolts for hey are about an inch shorter.

And maybe someone can fill me in on why everyone is doing this lately. Yes I understand that it doesn't really help but on the other hand it can't hurt if its there already and it's left alone. I'm a firm believer ok 'if it ain't broken don't fix it'

jokerchief462 05-24-2013 11:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Unless it is really bothering something I would leave it be. But if you must get a new gasket and then you have to source the bolts.. Mine are actually studs with nuts 89 2.5L TBI. Look at #4 in the picture listed as studs no size mentioned.

petercass88 05-25-2013 12:27 AM

Here is why i am wanting to do this... Took it to this place called Jeepers Den about an hour away from me to have them replace the seals on the front Dana 60 and asked them to take a look over the whole thing for me while they were at it.

The issue that I have is when you put your foot to the floor it stumbles for a second and then the check engine light comes on and it carries on the way it was. The people at Jeepers Den said to pull it off because it does more harm than good and is worthless. It isn't meant to be there in other words... Maybe I have a different issue (possibly a bad O2 sensor?) They said only change I should make is put headers on it if I decide to go about fixing my exhaust leak (which i do plan on doing)

petercass88 05-25-2013 12:29 AM

(P.S. many thanks for the drawings!!! That is awesome!)

Defcon 1 05-25-2013 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petercass88 (Post 3791175)
Here is why i am wanting to do this... Took it to this place called Jeepers Den about an hour away from me to have them replace the seals on the front Dana 60 and asked them to take a look over the whole thing for me while they were at it.

The issue that I have is when you put your foot to the floor it stumbles for a second and then the check engine light comes on and it carries on the way it was. The people at Jeepers Den said to pull it off because it does more harm than good and is worthless. It isn't meant to be there in other words... Maybe I have a different issue (possibly a bad O2 sensor?) They said only change I should make is put headers on it if I decide to go about fixing my exhaust leak (which i do plan on doing)


These people told you that a TB Spacer is worthless but putting headers on a 4-Banger isn't? Are they doing the work for you or are you doing that yourself? This all sounds like a scam to me man, the TB spacer has nothing to do with your engine throwing fault codes at you. "It's not supposed to be there" could apply to anything that we put on our Jeeps, The snorkels, the Lift-Kits, the Dana 60's, etc. So just because its there and not supposed to be doesn't mean it's actually causing a problem.

You definitely have another issue going on and it's not the TB spacer, unless somehow someway it's interfering with the throttle cable operation. A TB spacer would only cause a high-idle if one of the gaskets was leaking air, but it's upstream of the fuel dilvery and doesn't do anything but swirl and concentrate the airflow pre-manifold intake. But it more or less sounds like a Throttle Position Sensor issue or perhaps even a Fuel-Flow related issue. Taking it off isn't going to do anything but cost you more money for replacing the bolts, gasket, and cleaning supplies. Were you able to capture the fault code when it came on? You can verify the code number and take it from there, it could be something completely different.

0III0forlife 05-25-2013 07:22 AM

The stumbling isnt coming from the throttle body spacer. You have some other issue that is causing it.

Taking the spacer off just because it isnt supposed to be there? What about the Dana 60 front end? It definately isnt supposed to be there. If thats what you really have, running 1-ton running gear (Dana 60) is an excellent mod, but almost unheard of when the powerhouse is a 4 popper.

And a header for a 4cyl? Seriously, thats almost like an insult to the jeep community. Stick with a stock style manifold, no sense in getting your entire neighborhood laughing at you since the big jeep on tons will sound like you farting in a tin can, if you put a header on it...lol

petercass88 05-25-2013 10:09 AM

Let me see if i can pull the codes. As far as power goes I love the 4 banger! I yanked a big ram charger mud truck out of the mud in 4-low (has terralow 4 to 1 gears... not exactly sure what that means but in 3rd gear at idle someone can lightly jog next to me lol)

I have no problems with idle, once it warms up it idles around 500 RPM and EXTREMELY smooth for what i would expect out of a 4 banger idling so low. It is only when you pedal to the metal that i has a hiccup. I will pull the codes and list them here.

I know I wont be taking it back there again, they seemed knowledgeable and had nothing but aftermarket rigs out front but DANG they were expensive!!! Replacing the seals on the front D60 cost me 315 bucks... Besides, I bought this jeep because I absolutely love Jeeps and wanted an older one that I can try to do MOST of the work myself on.

If the header would mess with my exhaust note... screw that! I love the sound of the 4 banger, it sounds really throaty and mean. (aside from my exhaust leak)

Unless the engine goes completely, I have no plans on swapping it out. It supposedly has 4.88 gears in the D60s but I still cant make use of 5th gear and struggle to break 65 MPH in 4th. Should I look at higher gears or is my 4 banger having issues? (i am running 33 x 12.5 BFG ATs

AllMudd 05-25-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petercass88 (Post 3791175)

The issue that I have is when you put your foot to the floor it stumbles for a second and then the check engine light comes on and it carries on the way it was. The people at Jeepers Den said to pull it off because it does more harm than good and is worthless. It isn't meant to be there in other words... Maybe I have a different issue (possibly a bad O2 sensor?) They said only change I should make is put headers on it if I decide to go about fixing my exhaust leak (which i do plan on doing)

I had an issue close to this years ago. I replaced my plugs, wires, cap and rotor with not change. Then I looked into it further and replaced the stock coil with a MSD coil and it went away. For the codes tho I'm not sure, I'm waiting to see what you post.

petercass88 05-25-2013 11:39 AM

it pulled 4 codes... yikes:
12
33
24
51
55

jeremyx28 05-25-2013 11:53 AM

Not trying to hijack this thread but I have a related question that dosent warrant starting a new one. I was going to, eventually looking into upgrading to a bigger throttle body myself.....now people are taking them off? Should I just save my money?

AllMudd 05-25-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremyx28 (Post 3791929)
Not trying to hijack this thread but I have a related question that dosent warrant starting a new one. I was going to, eventually looking into upgrading to a bigger throttle body myself.....now people are taking them off? Should I just save my money?

No just the TB spacer

AllMudd 05-25-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petercass88 (Post 3791902)
it pulled 4 codes... yikes:
12
33
24
51
55


12 Battery disconnect

24 Throttle position sensor voltage too high or too low

33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit

51 O2S signal stays below center (lean)

55 Completion of diagnostic code display

petercass88 05-25-2013 12:38 PM

Sounds like 24 and 51 are the ones I have to dig into?

jeremyx28 05-25-2013 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllMudd (Post 3791952)

No just the TB spacer

OK, so spacer is a waste of money but bigger throttle body is beneficial? I was gonna go to the junk yard and see if I can find one. Cherokee or 6 cylinder jeep will work as long as its the 4 bolt pattern, right?

AllMudd 05-25-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremyx28 (Post 3792127)

OK, so spacer is a waste of money but bigger throttle body is beneficial? I was gonna go to the junk yard and see if I can find one. Cherokee or 6 cylinder jeep will work as long as its the 4 bolt pattern, right?

The TB spacer helps with air starting to spin as it enters the intake manifold and down to the valve. Yes they help just they are not that noticeable on a 4cyl. The TB from a 4.0 will work you just have to swap over the sensors from your 2.5 TB.

petercass88 05-26-2013 07:08 PM

Any advice on where to start to correct the throttle position sensor code? The O2 sensor is an easy swap. I will try to find my exhaust leak while im at it.

Defcon 1 05-27-2013 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petercass88 (Post 3795028)
Any advice on where to start to correct the throttle position sensor code? The O2 sensor is an easy swap. I will try to find my exhaust leak while im at it.

The best way is to swap it out with a new one and see if that problem goes away. Other than that, if you have an ohm-meter you could test the wiring, but that's a lot of work compared to removing and replacing it.

petercass88 05-27-2013 12:25 PM

Any advice on which brands to get for the TPS and O2 sensor?

Defcon 1 05-27-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petercass88 (Post 3797208)
Any advice on which brands to get for the TPS and O2 sensor?

I went with Duralast for my sensors when I replaced them, they seemed pretty comparable to the OEM ones and were almost identical in weight and "feel", I'm not sure how different it is across other brands though.

The TPS is a really simple sensor though, it's job is basically to relay resistance back to the EEC and tell it "hey I'm at 0 degrees now" or "now I'm starting to open greater than 0 degrees". The TPS and IAC work together, once the TPS and the butterfly valve begin to open, the message relayed from the EEC tells the IAC to begin to close.

The TPS is really easy to take out, just make sure you have good Torx bits and some PB-blaster. If it gets too tight and you think you'll snap the bolts, remove the TB and do it on the bench, don't risk shearing the bolt inside the housing otherwise you'll have to remove the TB anyway to tap-drill it out.

Also before you start it up after the sensor change, it's usually common practice to discharge the capacitors in the electrical system. This will not only clear the code from the computer for a "fresh-slate", but it will give your computer a chance to re-learn the new sensors in the system for the first 50 start cycles. You can do this by disconnecting the battery and letting it sit over night, or taking off both + and - terminals and touching them together. This is optional however of you think you need it. I had to do this when I changed out the IAC, TPS, CPS, MAP, and 02 sensor to pass NJ emissions last year lol.

petercass88 05-27-2013 02:58 PM

Thank you for the info! I was roaming through rock auto but im not sure if I wanna go cheap on sensors. I will give duralast a try and do it right

Defcon 1 05-27-2013 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petercass88 (Post 3797481)
Thank you for the info! I was roaming through rock auto but im not sure if I wanna go cheap on sensors. I will give duralast a try and do it right

Yeah man and if it doesn't fix it, AutoZone is real good about returning stuff lol

petercass88 05-27-2013 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defcon 1 (Post 3797798)
Yeah man and if it doesn't fix it, AutoZone is real good about returning stuff lol

Also very good to know! :punk:

petercass88 06-08-2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defcon 1 (Post 3797329)
I went with Duralast for my sensors when I replaced them, they seemed pretty comparable to the OEM ones and were almost identical in weight and "feel", I'm not sure how different it is across other brands though.

The TPS is a really simple sensor though, it's job is basically to relay resistance back to the EEC and tell it "hey I'm at 0 degrees now" or "now I'm starting to open greater than 0 degrees". The TPS and IAC work together, once the TPS and the butterfly valve begin to open, the message relayed from the EEC tells the IAC to begin to close.

The TPS is really easy to take out, just make sure you have good Torx bits and some PB-blaster. If it gets too tight and you think you'll snap the bolts, remove the TB and do it on the bench, don't risk shearing the bolt inside the housing otherwise you'll have to remove the TB anyway to tap-drill it out.

Also before you start it up after the sensor change, it's usually common practice to discharge the capacitors in the electrical system. This will not only clear the code from the computer for a "fresh-slate", but it will give your computer a chance to re-learn the new sensors in the system for the first 50 start cycles. You can do this by disconnecting the battery and letting it sit over night, or taking off both + and - terminals and touching them together. This is optional however of you think you need it. I had to do this when I changed out the IAC, TPS, CPS, MAP, and 02 sensor to pass NJ emissions last year lol.


Help please!! These sensors line up to mount and everything.. but they look nothing alike... do i have the right sensor? Is the duralast sensor missing a part?
http://i.imgur.com/X367CgS.jpg
(Duralast on the right)

http://i.imgur.com/JZ7JuJG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lgs5jYv.jpg
(Duralast on the left)

petercass88 06-08-2013 10:22 PM

nevermind... im an idiot and removed the wrong sensor lol!! Still is not the right sensor though, i will take them both in to autozone and tell em to get me the right one and update their stupid database... bleh.

Defcon 1 06-09-2013 09:54 AM

You removed the IAC lol. Before you put it back check the o-ring on the shaft. If its cracked or dried out it could leak and you should replace it. It looks really dirty too so maybe you can spray some carb cleaner in the IAC Throttle Body Housing and clean it up a bit, it's not supposed to be that gunked up lol. Don't spray the o-ring though it'll dry it out.

petercass88 06-09-2013 10:54 AM

Well hey, they are side by side ans have similar looking housings :-P the gasket was cracked, gonna take them both into autozone for replacements.

petercass88 06-09-2013 10:55 AM

I was thinking of running seafoam through the intake to clean it up. Im sure I have carbon build up everywhere

Defcon 1 06-09-2013 11:58 AM

Cool beans man sounds good. The Seafoam should help a bunch I just did mine last week, that stuff is awesome.

petercass88 06-09-2013 12:48 PM

Sweet did you do the seafoam kit that you run through the gas tank or the spray that you run through the intake? Im thinking about doing both and trying to get everything carbon free from end to end!


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