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-   -   Tailgate failure carrying 35" tire (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/tailgate-failure-carrying-35-tire-245372.html)

ThingsAbove 05-27-2013 01:21 PM

Tailgate failure carrying 35" tire
 
So... forum wisdom says that carrying a 35" wheel tire combo on the stock JK carrier (with extension to clear the bumper) will sooner or later cause the failure of the rear gate, either spot welds will go or the sheet metal will buckle.

My local Raleigh 4WD says that the rear gate can handle a 35" tire just fine for years unless you are wheeling out West with big drops. I even said I'm willing to spend the money on a tire carrier and they said it's not needed. They don't seem to have anything to gain by telling me it's not needed.

But I'm paranoid from reading the "forum wisdom". I've spent the past two weekends wheeling at OHV parks (Uwharrie and Brown Mountain). Lots of shake rattle and bumps. I even spent an hour and a half on the most bone jarring, washed out, gravel road I've ever driven. I've watched the rear tire for bouncing and looked at the gate for signs of sheet metal fatigue and so far there's no evidence of either. However I do have an inverted hitch under the spare to keep it from bouncing so I'm not truly letting it hang out there.

So... how may of you are running 35's on the gate with the stock carrier without trouble. How many failed and when.

I'm not interested in those with aftermarket solutions. I know there are lots of great options but there are other things I'd like to do with my Jeep money before spending it on a tire carrier if it's not needed.

I'm not interested in hearing about 33's unless they are made of lead.

MudRunner 05-27-2013 01:29 PM

Mine began to fail after about a year. I don't run 35s but I do run big 33s which are, in fact, made of lead (tire itself weighs about 75 lbs). However I did tweek the tailgate coming of a ledge and that may have accelerated the process.

rics1997 05-27-2013 01:51 PM

It really has more to do with weight not tire size. A lighter 35 with light 15" alloy wheels will have less a chance of causing damage then a heavy 33 on 17's. One reason heavy tires like Nittos and similar tires aren't recommended. Great tires but heavy. The closer you get to 100 lbs tire/wheel combo the more likely of failure.

Patrick Molloy 05-27-2013 02:26 PM

Doesn't the handbook mention 33lbs as the max weight on the tailgate


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coop42 05-27-2013 02:38 PM

i would reccomend a swing out tire carrior. IMO.

Jwc 05-27-2013 02:57 PM

Which company makes a good swing out tire carrier

Kennyksu 05-27-2013 03:03 PM

I've been running 315 Dura's on the tailgate tire carrier for 8 months and done a few mid level trails, no hard drops. So far so good, but I'm switching to the Teraflex hinge and carrier soon.

joe002 05-27-2013 03:04 PM

I think washboard roads are the hardest on the tailgate. If you have the bump stops so they’re pressing on the tire, and an added support on the bottom (I just installed a stock bump stop with extension on the bottom), and your spare tire and wheel is not one of the heavier models, you can run it for years - I have.

ThingsAbove 05-27-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rics1997 (Post 3797366)
It really has more to do with weight not tire size. A lighter 35 with light 15" alloy wheels will have less a chance of causing damage then a heavy 33 on 17's. One reason heavy tires like Nittos and similar tires aren't recommended. Great tires but heavy. The closer you get to 100 lbs tire/wheel combo the more likely of failure.

35's make a difference on the stock carrier over 33's. 33's will fit on the stock carrier without a spacer. That spacer puts a 35" tire 2 inches (or more) further out from the gate. That distance creates more leverage and multiplies the effective weight on the stock carrier.

That is the reason I'm asking about 35's. I think in general they are going to be harder on the gate than 33's.

jkjeeper06 05-27-2013 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Molloy (Post 3797425)
Doesn't the handbook mention 33lbs as the max weight on the tailgate

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Nope. Stock rubicon wheel + tire comes in right around 74 pounds. If you can stay less than 80 you're probably ok. 6 extra pounds isn't life threatening

jkjeeper06 05-27-2013 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThingsAbove (Post 3797959)

35's make a difference on the stock carrier over 33's. 33's will fit on the stock carrier without a spacer. That spacer puts a 35" tire 2 inches (or more) further out from the gate. That distance creates more leverage and multiplies the effective weight on the stock carrier.

That is the reason I'm asking about 35's. I think in general they are going to be harder on the gate than 33's.

A lot of that is width. Rick was assuming the wheels had less backspacing already to accommodate the 12.5" wide 33's or 35's. now that's not the only width tire but its most common in those sizes. But you are correct. The spacer or less backspacing would push the tire out making a larger torque on the gate. A bottom bump stop will help but the more weight the faster it'll break

ThingsAbove 05-27-2013 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkjeeper06 (Post 3798004)
A lot of that is width. Rick was assuming the wheels had less backspacing already to accommodate the 12.5" wide 33's or 35's. now that's not the only width tire but its most common in those sizes. But you are correct. The spacer or less backspacing would push the tire out making a larger torque on the gate. A bottom bump stop will help but the more weight the faster it'll break

I tried Daystar extended bump stops and they barely touched the back of the tire. So this was my temporary solution for a "bump stop" right after I got the tires. It works for now but it's in the way and I have to keep grease under there to get it to open and shut smoothly.

I'd guess it's supporting no more than 15lbs. It's more to keep the tire from bouncing.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/attachm...rt_hitch_2.jpg

I figure I'll need a carrier eventually but...

I don't want the extra weight of a bumper carrier (between 120-180lbs for most bumper/carriers combos).

I like the OR-FAB but it doesn't let the tailgate open far enough for the "hold-open" strut on the 2012 to be used which means it would be swinging back on me all the time like my friend's 2010.

I sorta like the Terraflex HD hinge but it seems like a lot of money for something that seems to not do much more than the current tailgate. It's still using the gate as a partially stressed member and relying on the stock tub hinge mounting points to carry all the weight (as where OR-FAB reinforces this in the tub and distributes the weight to both sides of the tub. I also don't think the TF HD carrier has been out long enough to know whether there will be failures similar to stock.

The Genright looks like a good option but it looks bigger than the tire on the back of a rig and a few posts indicate there are durability issues with the bushings.

I'm obviously "overthinking" this. :banghead:

MudRunner 05-27-2013 08:31 PM

^ Just to comment on the above. I run the or fab tire carrier and it does go out far enough for the tailgate stopper to catch. Hope this helps your decision. I love mine :thumb:

rics1997 05-27-2013 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThingsAbove (Post 3797959)
35's make a difference on the stock carrier over 33's. 33's will fit on the stock carrier without a spacer. That spacer puts a 35" tire 2 inches (or more) further out from the gate. That distance creates more leverage and multiplies the effective weight on the stock carrier.

That is the reason I'm asking about 35's. I think in general they are going to be harder on the gate than 33's.


Not really in all situaltions. If your going to 33X 12.5 you will more then likely be using a new wheel with correct backspacing. If you had them on stock wheels you would need spacer for either the 33X12.5 or 35's and weight still is the main factor. My 35's fit just fine on the stock carrier with no spacers on the same wheels I had 33's on but they have the backspace needed for 12.5" wide tires for 15's.

nocibur2 05-27-2013 08:44 PM

I think the Teraflex carrier is much cleaner looking than the others. I wonder if they'd(Teraflex) stand behind their product & warrant any failures to a tailgate when running 35's on their carrier. It would be worth asking! I think I will purchase the Teraflex when funds will allow.

... you'll regret putting off buying a good carrier if your tailgate does fail!

Sinister6 05-27-2013 08:58 PM

One of the biggest things is keep everything TIGHT...a little bit of play makes a big difference and multiplies the forces pulling on the tailgate. I run a 35" on tailgate, I include tighting my spare with my regular maintinance schedule. My buddy has run a 37" with Beadlock on his 86 CJ for 10 years with no problem. I've been looking at the OR Fab too.

m25red 05-27-2013 09:11 PM

I've got a Duratracs 315/70/17 on a Fuel Octane 17x9 with 4.5 back spacing. Can I run this on the stock carrier at least for awhile until funds are replenished for a full bumper/ carrier? Will I need some type if spacer? Shat else might I need.
Sorry, im sure this is posted somewhere but search function is not getting me anywhere.

jkjeeper06 05-27-2013 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m25red (Post 3798592)
I've got a Duratracs 315/70/17 on a Fuel Octane 17x9 with 4.5 back spacing. Can I run this on the stock carrier at least for awhile until funds are replenished for a full bumper/ carrier? Will I need some type if spacer? Shat else might I need.
Sorry, im sure this is posted somewhere but search function is not getting me anywhere.

With your back spacing it will physically fit on the back without spacers. And they are light wheels which is good. My suggestion is if you choose to run it on the back, only do it on road. When you go off road just undo the 3 lugs and put the spare tire in the trunk. Then all of the jarring you do off road won't affect the tailgate at all. Also don't run any kind of spare tire bike/cargo rack and make sure to have good bump stops. Those suggestions will increase chances of it staying safe. Idk how much your combo is but you should be fine for a while. No one can make definite answers on how long it will last- only speculations. But the above suggestions will help reduce strain and you should be good for a while

m25red 05-27-2013 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkjeeper06

With your back spacing it will physically fit on the back without spacers. And they are light wheels which is good. My suggestion is if you choose to run it on the back, only do it on road. When you go off road just undo the 3 lugs and put the spare tire in the trunk. Then all of the jarring you do off road won't affect the tailgate at all. Also don't run any kind of spare tire bike/cargo rack and make sure to have good bump stops. Those suggestions will increase chances of it staying safe. Idk how much your combo is but you should be fine for a while. No one can make definite answers on how long it will last- only speculations. But the above suggestions will help reduce strain and you should be good for a while

Any recommendation on the new bump stops? I've seen the ones from Daystar.

jkjeeper06 05-27-2013 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m25red (Post 3798718)

Any recommendation on the new bump stops? I've seen the ones from Daystar.

Daystars are what most ppl go with. Above there was actually a suggestion to place another one at the bottom of the tailgate to prevent even more wiggling. If you reused one of your old ones and got it to fit in between the tailgate at the base that could prevent more wiggling. I've seen ppl get thick hosing or foam from lowes/home depot and stick it in the existing bump stops to extend them

m25red 05-27-2013 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe002
I think washboard roads are the hardest on the tailgate. If you have the bump stops so they’re pressing on the tire, and an added support on the bottom (I just installed a stock bump stop with extension on the bottom), and your spare tire and wheel is not one of the heavier models, you can run it for years - I have.

Do you have a pic of the extra support on the bottom?

jkjeeper06 05-27-2013 10:11 PM

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/my-...ion-90308.html

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f118/hi...cs-148609.html

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f118/my...cs-157687.html

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f118/di...cs-165309.html

All of those are very helpful on DIY tailgate support, adding bumpstops and hitch mounted auxiliary supports for the tires. They are really great ideas. Most by joe002 and 07xman2door. Lots of pics

MrSig 05-28-2013 03:46 AM

Tailgate broke carrying a 35" spare after 1 year

Lynskey 05-28-2013 06:31 AM

I have the TF Hinge and tire carrier combo on mine. It will solve all of your issues if you don't want a new bumper/carrier combo. This thing is solid.

Lusus_Naturae 05-28-2013 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m25red (Post 3798718)
Any recommendation on the new bump stops? I've seen the ones from Daystar.

I went to Home Depot (Lowe's didn't have it) and bought 1 1/4 inch washing machine hose in the 'by the foot' section. I cut it in half, stuck each piece in the stock tailgate bump stop (it's a tight fit), and then cut it down until it was the right length for my 315. It is a lot easier if you have another person to hold the spare on while you make the adjustments.

ThingsAbove 05-28-2013 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudRunner (Post 3798448)
^ Just to comment on the above. I run the or fab tire carrier and it does go out far enough for the tailgate stopper to catch. Hope this helps your decision. I love mine :thumb:

The instructions from OR-FAB (with Rotopax option) say to remove the stopper because it can no longer be used. Maybe they were being overly cautious. It's good to know that it can still be used. That put's it back at my number one choice for a carrier.

Dunkin_D 05-28-2013 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynskey (Post 3799380)
I have the TF Hinge and tire carrier combo on mine. It will solve all of your issues if you don't want a new bumper/carrier combo. This thing is solid.

I have had my 35's for a few months now and right now using the smitty tire carrier. It def feels more solid than the regular tire carrier. But I am still worried about future damage.

Do you feel that will solve all your problems. The TF hinge is pricey and I feel just buying a whole new rear bumper/tire carrier would be the same amount if not a little more.

Disconnected 05-28-2013 10:18 AM

Run 35in Dick Cepeks and just had to get myself a swing away carrier. After about a year of having the heavy bugger on the stock carrier it busted some welds while out on the trail. Nothing major but if I had kept it on it would of been another story.

Lynskey 05-28-2013 11:24 AM

The TF HD combo is great if you don't plan to get a bumper/carrier combo. At most I may get a new bumper in the future, but I don't want to have to open a carrier and then the tailgate in 2 different motions. I like the simplicity of the HD for that. Right now running 33" and at most 35" in the future.

Riccochet 05-28-2013 12:32 PM

I popped welds after 2 months carrying 35 MTR on 15" Level8 Tracker wheels using a Smittybuilt HD Tire Carrier. Once the welds popped the gate started to sag and and was problematic closing. I've since installed a new bumper with swing out tire carrier.


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