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MangoTango34 06-02-2013 06:22 PM

Audio apgrades?
 
I think that my stereo sounds pretty good as is (but i would like more bass), but i have seen a lot of threads saying that theirs is so much better now that they messed with it!

I DO want more bass, but is it worth messing with?

Even if it isnt for louder/better bass what are some good mods?

lolpetewtf 06-02-2013 06:44 PM

The only mod worth doing is ripping the entire thing out. Factory systems/head units are under-powered and anemic. Replacing the head unit is almost a must (unless you know how to wire in an amp, which I am guessing you do not know how to do).

Start with swapping out the 6.5"s, then see if you're happy. If not add an amp and sub. I have a 10" flat-firing sub from Pioneer I paid $120 and it provides very tight bass.

I guess you could poly-fill the sound bar, that is free, otherwise start replacing components for some real results.

panthermark 06-02-2013 07:10 PM

You can try polyfil, a new 8" sub, (will need a ring spacer), and a sub amp that accepts speaker level inputs if you want just an improvement in bass.

Or tear it all out and start from scratch with a real HU, amps, and speakers.

MangoTango34 06-02-2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthermark (Post 3818219)
You can try polyfil, a new 8" sub, (will need a ring spacer), and a sub amp that accepts speaker level inputs if you want just an improvement in bass.

Or tear it all out and start from scratch with a real HU, amps, and speakers.

Ok. Ive heard about polyfill before. What all do i have to do?

panthermark 06-02-2013 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoTango34 (Post 3818363)
Ok. Ive heard about polyfill before. What all do i have to do?

Not much.....
You can either go to Wal-Mart, Hobby Lobby, or Jo-Anne fabric and buy bag of it for $5.00.....or when the "tower' isn't looking.....snatch an old pillow, rip it open, and pull out the stuffing. Go to your vehicle, remove speaker, insert a decent amount of polyfil, re-install speaker, notice a very small, but subtle change.

Note: DO NOT OVER STUFF. Too much polyfil is way worse than too little.

All polyfill does is slow down the air-movement, as if the speaker is in a slightly larger enclosure. This usually results in just a touch deeper, tighter bass. I think a side benefit, is that it cuts down on the hollowness of the plastic enclosures. That is probably why people over stuff everything and makes it sound worse...(people using polyfil as if it were Dyanmat).

Remember, the point of polyfil is to make a subwoofer perform as if it were in a slightly larger enclosure. That works for Wrangler's because the factory sub is in a pretty small (0.3) enclosure.

MangoTango34 06-02-2013 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthermark (Post 3818398)

Not much.....
You can either go to Wal-Mart, Hobby Lobby, or Jo-Anne fabric and buy bag of it for $5.00.....or when the "tower' isn't looking.....snatch an old pillow, rip it open, and pull out the stuffing. Go to your vehicle, remove speaker, insert a decent amount of polyfil, re-install speaker, notice a very small, but subtle change.

Note: DO NOT OVER STUFF. Too much polyfil is way worse than too little.

All polyfill does is slow down the air-movement, as if the speaker is in a slightly larger enclosure. This usually results in just a touch deeper, tighter bass. I think a side benefit, is that it cuts down on the hollowness of the plastic enclosures. That is probably why people over stuff everything and makes it sound worse...(people using polyfil as if it were Dyanmat).

Remember, the point of polyfil is to make a subwoofer perform as if it were in a slightly larger enclosure. That works for Wrangler's because the factory sub is in a pretty small (0.3) enclosure.

Thanks! Will do tomorrow and see how i like it!

By the way my "tower" is my father so i will probably use some from an old pillow from my bed.

viperx6x9x 06-02-2013 08:39 PM

Only problem with replacing the head unit nowadays is retaining all the factory functionality, if you have one of the fancy ones with bluetooth syncing and navigation and such.

If you have the base model setup definitely go for an aftermarket. Even cheap ones tend to sound a little better than factory stuff.

With my tj there was none of that fancy stuff to worry about. I just put in a sony, about $130, left the stock speakers alone. Even just doing that it sounds loads better.

If you really want good bass, don't bother with the factory amps. It's expensive, but just go with an aftermarket amp and sub/box combo. Even those fancy vehicles that come with Bose systems and such, can't compare to a solid aftermarket amp and sub setup. They still use those tiny underpowered amps.

gorillahydrographics 06-02-2013 09:01 PM

If you want bass, forget the poly fill and your sound bar.

The sound bar is only good for highs. I replaced the sound bar speakers added a single Kicker L7 8" sub downfire in a ported box.

I have a 5 channel amp to run it all. In fact the front speakers are stock, but once you add some power and take the lows out, they sound very good.

I changed the head unit also.

The sound bar even with poly isn't air right, to little air space, and sound awful when putting any base to a speaker in it......

woansleftpeg 06-02-2013 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorillahydrographics (Post 3818625)
If you want bass, forget the poly fill and your sound bar.

The sound bar is only good for highs. I replaced the sound bar speakers added a single Kicker L7 8" sub downfire in a ported box.

I have a 5 channel amp to run it all. In fact the front speakers are stock, but once you add some power and take the lows out, they sound very good.

I changed the head unit also.

The sound bar even with poly isn't air right, to little air space, and sound awful when putting any base to a speaker in it......

Actually that's not really right. Putting tweeters in the soundbar will only serve to confuse your imaging. Highs are the most directional sound, lows the least.

The optimum configuration in a Jeep is to work with what you've got, so good quality components in the front, primarily mid-bass in the soundbar and your sub wherever you like because it doesn't really matter where the deepest frequencies are coming from - your ear can't tell.

viperx6x9x 06-02-2013 09:14 PM

Yup, stock sound bar is useless for subs. Decent spot to but in better high range speakers though. Nice to have some in front and behind you to even out the sound. You may be able to squeeze some mid range out of it, but dash speakers are a better place to start with that.

MangoTango34 06-03-2013 11:25 AM

what about the factory amp? I heard you can turn it up a little? Can i? If so, how do I get to it?

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoTango34 (Post 3820312)
what about the factory amp? I heard you can turn it up a little? Can i? If so, how do I get to it?

You can do all sorts of things with the factory amp - burning, crushing and dropping into the Hudson are all good options.

In all seriousness, expect nothing from that unit. It's of a specification so low that it would be impossible to purchase something comparable on the open market. It is literally useless, its only purpose is to enable the sale of an extra package on a new Jeep by being able to claim the presence of an Alpine amplifier and a subwoofer.

panthermark 06-03-2013 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoTango34 (Post 3820312)
what about the factory amp? I heard you can turn it up a little? Can i? If so, how do I get to it?

Nope, you can't turn up the factory amp....there is no access to the gain controls or cross-overs.

The problem with the factory amp is that you are limited to how it is set-up from the factory....the only thing you have control over is a balance, fade, and a lame 3 band EQ. You can't even control the sub output.

It is why so many people tear everything out and start over.....or at least start downstream of the factory amp with LOC's and new amps.... Or just give up and accept it....add new speakers and polyfil and call it a day (that is what I did).

Some people have swapped factory amps out of other Chrysler vehicles, but there have been mixed results.

MangoTango34 06-03-2013 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthermark (Post 3820358)

Nope, you can't turn up the factory amp....there is no access to the gain controls or cross-overs.

The problem with the factory amp is that you are limited to how it is set-up from the factory....the only thing you have control over is a balance, fade, and a lame 3 band EQ. You can't even control the sub output.

It is why so many people tear everything out and start over.....or at least start downstream of the factory amp with LOC's and new amps.... Or just give up and accept it....add new speakers and polyfil and call it a day (that is what I did).

Some people have swapped factory amps out of other Chrysler vehicles, but there have been mixed results.

I did the polyfill. Notice a little difference, but would like more. What does it require to get a new amp? Like how hard and what do i need to buy? How much would it help?

WranglerKCCO 06-03-2013 01:48 PM

I have a JKU with all the fancy controls, where is the factory amp and can it be replaced with a better amp and still keep all the fancy bluetooth crap?

MangoTango34 06-03-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WranglerKCCO (Post 3820785)
I have a JKU with all the fancy controls, where is the factory amp and can it be replaced with a better amp and still keep all the fancy bluetooth crap?

I know that it is somewhere behind the covering below the steering wheel. And I would guess so, I dont know how that would alter anything like bluetooth

MangoTango34 06-03-2013 02:09 PM

What if I got this, took out factory sub, and mounted amp on this?

Amazon.com: Kicker TCompS 40TCWS104 10" 600W Car Loaded Subwoofer Sub+Box+Amplifier+Amp Kit: Car Electronics

could I just wire the amp up to the sub and mount it on the sub box? That way all I have to to if I need more room is to unplug a couple wires?

I am a newbie at this!

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 02:10 PM

The factory amp is behind the driver's side speaker pod.

Replacing and/or augmenting it is a very movable feast depending on what it is you want to achieve. Whether you're willing or wishing to replace the head unit is a key starting point in determining what you do downstream.

MangoTango34 06-03-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woansleftpeg (Post 3820869)
The factory amp is behind the driver's side speaker pod.

Replacing and/or augmenting it is a very movable feast depending on what it is you want to achieve. Whether you're willing or wishing to replace the head unit is a key starting point in determining what you do downstream.

I dont want to replace the head unit. I got the one with nav and all. Plus I think I have 5 more years of SirusXM!

panthermark 06-03-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoTango34 (Post 3820873)
I dont want to replace the head unit. I got the one with nav and all. Plus I think I have 5 more years of SirusXM!

That is where everyone one gets stuck.

The absolute biggest problem with the premium audio system is that the HU and amp are connected. It isn't like a normal audio system where the processing is done in the HU, and the amp is just there to boost the power (while also giving you access to cross-over and gains).

On a JK, if you pull the factory amp, you (and I always get these mixed up) you lose the ability to control your alreadly lame 3 band EQ. That is why people end up using LOC's or signal processors, along with new amps downstream of the factory amp...or simply pulling everything out and starting over. Of course if you pull everything, you will lose some of you factory voice features.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Kicker has most of the stuff already needed to make a near drop in system for the premium systems, but for some reason, they won't take the final step.

Oh...and one more thing. 99% of aftermarket speakers (non-subwoofers) are 4 ohms. Our system uses 2 ohm speakers. (I measured 2.7 ohms on my cheapo meter).

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthermark (Post 3820925)
That is where everyone one gets stuck.

The absolute biggest problem with the premium audio system is that the HU and amp are connected. It isn't like a normal audio system where the processing is done in the HU, and the amp is just there to boost the power (while also giving you access to cross-over and gains).

On a JK, if you pull the factory amp, you (and I always get these mixed up) you lose the ability to control your alreadly lame 3 band EQ. That is why people end up using LOC's or signal processors, along with new amps downstream of the factory amp...or simply pulling everything out and starting over. Of course if you pull everything, you will lose some of you factory voice features.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Kicker has most of the stuff already needed to make a near drop in system for the premium systems, but for some reason, they won't take the final step.

Is that right? How does the head unit provide EQ capabilities in a non-premium config then? Surely you must be able to just take the speaker level outputs from the factory HU and feed them to an aftermarket amp? I never bothered with looking at any of this because I had the crappiest of crappy head units that was only ever going to become landfill.

panthermark 06-03-2013 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woansleftpeg (Post 3820946)
Is that right? How does the head unit provide EQ capabilities in a non-premium config then? Surely you must be able to just take the speaker level outputs from the factory HU and feed them to an aftermarket amp? I never bothered with looking at any of this because I had the crappiest of crappy head units that was only ever going to become landfill.

It is only on the premium system that you lose EQ ability if you remove the factory amp. (I need to go double check, there are about 3 harnesses available, and each one has a different flaw depending on how you use them).

That is why it is actually easier to upgrade a non-premium system than a premium system.

jkrew 06-03-2013 02:41 PM

http://24.media.tumblr.com/5c087f183...k0co2_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/de537dc02...k0co3_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0085d3df4...k0co1_1280.jpg

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthermark (Post 3820952)
It is only on the premium system that you lose EQ ability if you remove the factory amp. (I need to go double check, there are about 3 harnesses available, and each one has a different flaw depending on how you use them).

That is why it is actually easier to upgrade a non-premium system than a premium system.

So are they different head units, or is it simply a programming change to tell the HU that it's in premium mode?

panthermark 06-03-2013 02:45 PM

Found it:
C2A-CHY23
Pac-Audio.com Product Details | iPod Integration for your car and More by Pac-Audio - Connecting you to the future
  • Only compatible in vehicles with a premium amplified audio system.
  • Does not retain factory radio's bass, mid-range & treble adjustments
This is harness used if you want to add an aftermarket amp to your factory system.

I don't think you can simply remove the factory amp unless you create some type of harness to connect the HU directly to the speakers....and that means you have to fool the CAN-Bus in the same manner the non-amped system does.

(Don't know why they are calling it ipod integration)

panthermark 06-03-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woansleftpeg (Post 3820966)
So are they different head units, or is it simply a programming change to tell the HU that it's in premium mode?

Same HU, but the CAN-Bus reads the system to see if there is an amp or not. It is like Jeep made it as hard as possible to upgrade the premium system.

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 02:54 PM

The whole thing's ludicrous. If I were you Mango, if you want proper quality audio I'd pull the factory head unit, sell it for a few hundred bucks on eBay and go after market all the way through. Deliberately programming the factory head unit to lose functionality when paired with an after market amp is just bullshit on Chrysler's part. The whole point of the Wranger is its upgradeability from stock.

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthermark (Post 3820970)
Same HU, but the CAN-Bus reads the system to see if there is an amp or not. It is like Jeep made it as hard as possible to upgrade the premium system.

In that case, it must be a software switch and therefore there must be a way of telling a previously amplified HU that it no longer has the factory amp, and to revert to non-premium mode. I wonder who we'd need to talk to about that? There's no reason I can think of why they wouldn't allow an owner to do that.

n00g7 06-03-2013 03:13 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoTango34 (Post 3820873)
I dont want to replace the head unit. I got the one with nav and all. Plus I think I have 5 more years of SirusXM!

Replace all speakers with quality 6.5's, replace factory woofer, tap into system with LOC and go LOC->Amp->Larger Sub. If you knew you wanted better than that to begin with, you'd be ripping out the HU. That should make you reasonably happy.

If you want to do louder, you'll need a 4chan amp with crossover for both F&R channels. Also, a band pass filter for the factory sub (or rip out).

You want to do better yet again, you'll need a new head unit and rip out factory wiring all together dedicated crossovers and the whole works.

panthermark 06-03-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00g7 (Post 3821059)
Replace all speakers with quality 6.5's, replace factory woofer, tap into system with LOC and go LOC->Amp->Larger Sub. If you knew you wanted better than that to begin with, you'd be ripping out the HU. That should make you reasonably happy.

If you want to do better, you'll need a 4chan amp and dedicated crossover.

You want to do better yet again, you'll need a new head unit and rip out factory wiring all together.

Yeah....it all depends on how badly someone wants to upgrade the sound, how deep their pockets are, and what factory items they are willing to give up.

If you want the best sound, rip everything out and start from scratch. It is just that a lot of people don't want to spend $600 on a hands-free option, along with another $1000 on a NAV system, only rip most of it out.

I did the first step of your plan...new 6.5's all the way around (along with polyfil). I had originally intended on doing the 2nd step as well.... I decided on an 8" Alpine Type R 2 ohm dual voice coil sub, along with the Rockford Fosgate PBR300x1 amp to install as a dedicated sub amp.....but simply got lazy and cheap.


I had also considered adding the Kicker "77Kick46" or "77KCK056" (can't remember which one is the most up-to-date) amp to replace the factory Alpine amp. These are supposed to be a "drop in" replacement for factory amps with one major exception....the sub channels are not powered. The Kickers amps are supposed to be 4 ohm amps, and the rear/sound bar channel is at full frequency (instead of being crossed over at about 100zh right now) and at an equal gain as the fronts. There is a low-powered sub channel that SHOULD be able to be used as in output to a sub amp. It is part of their full system for non-premium system Jeeps.

Why they don't finish the job amd make a drop in amp for premium system Jeeps is a mystery. They offer a dual amped system that is 95% of what is needed for a premium system Jeep right now.


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