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-   -   mother, should I trust the used car dealership? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/mother-should-i-trust-the-used-car-dealership-246823.html)

woah_amie 06-03-2013 09:46 AM

mother, should I trust the used car dealership?
 
Going today to look at a 2007 Wrangler Unlimited X.
It has 54,324 miles to its name, asking price is $17,490, but I'm going to negotiate since it's not a 4x4. What should I ask for? :whistling:



Now, my parents are concerned with it being used, because "you don't know why they didn't want it anymore, Amie. Think of all the problems it can have!"

Aren't used car dealerships supposed to fix anything that's wrong with the car?

Should I trust a used car dealership or just go new? I won't ever be able to afford a new Wrangler, so that's why I'm leaning to getting a used one. I'm 22, I don't need a fancy car. I need something I can have fun in.

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 09:47 AM

I think the fact that it's used is less of a concern than the fact that it's 2WD. Seems to defeat a lot of the point of a Wrangler, IMO.

woah_amie 06-03-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woansleftpeg (Post 3820214)
I think the fact that it's used is less of a concern than the fact that it's 2WD. Seems to defeat a lot of the point of a Wrangler, IMO.

not looking to go off-roading or anything like that... :hide:

dawhitesJKU 06-03-2013 10:00 AM

I had a bad experience with a used car dealer when I was about 20. I purchased a 4 dr 5 series sedan and after a few months, 3 windows stopped working. The cost to fix it was absurd since it was a BMW. The dealer said the warranty didn't cover it. At the end, I was stuck with a lemon.

yacc 06-03-2013 10:04 AM

That seems to be a ridiculously high price for a 2007. A base model, 4wd 2013 starts at $25,700 msrp, and can likely be had for under $23,000. Add on the much lower interest rate on a 13 vs an 07, the much better engine, 6 years newer, no needed maintenance, its 4wd, etc....

I personally would not even consider an 07 2wd for any more than maybe $10k, and probably not even then.

derf 06-03-2013 10:05 AM

I have one simple rule when it comes to buying a car.


Never trust a used car salesman. Ever.

Even if you get it in writing, the way they phrase the contract lets them weasel out of just about anything once you take possession of the vehicle.

legitposter 06-03-2013 10:21 AM

The majority of vehicles on used car lots have been through rough times and, eventually, ended up at auction where the used dealership snagged them for cheap. Chances are it has some major issues or even flood damage.

This doesn't rule it out but you should only by it for a great price.

2WD is a great thing. Sure you can't rock crawl, but the wrangler's ground clearance alone will allow you to go a lot of places.

In the end, you CANNOT trust a used car dealership. You really can't trust a new car dealership either but the used car dealership has perfected extra ways of scr*wing you.

woah_amie 06-03-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legitposter (Post 3820305)
The majority of vehicles on used car lots have been through rough times and, eventually, ended up at auction where the used dealership snagged them for cheap. Chances are it has some major issues or even flood damage.

This doesn't rule it out but you should only by it for a great price.

2WD is a great thing. Sure you can't rock crawl, but the wrangler's ground clearance alone will allow you to go a lot of places.

In the end, you CANNOT trust a used car dealership. You really can't trust a new car dealership either but the used car dealership has perfected extra ways of scr*wing you.

So should I even bother?

It has a carfax report, but I don't know how reliable those things are either.

Barmanvarn 06-03-2013 10:26 AM

If you really want a 2wd I suggest you research pricing

I've read horror stories of people buying used jeeps and then wanting to sell it because they didn't realize it was 2wd. Problem is that they couldn't get anyone to buy it.

P0234 06-03-2013 10:26 AM

Think about it this way, used car lots take the cars no franchised car dealership is willing to sell on their lot or trade to another dealer. These are cars they must take to an auction and then give to the highest bidder. Any problems they have are fixed as cheaply as possible, many are left hoping the customer ignores them. Excuses fly left and right.

Are there exceptions, sure. But I've bought so many cars over the years, 40 just for myself, more for friends/family. I've just gotten to the point I won't even bother to look at something at a used car lot.

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 10:28 AM

KBB shows that a 2007 Wrangler X 4WD in excellent condition with 55K on the clock should retail at around $19.5K, so a 2WD for a couple of grand less might not be that far out of the ballpark. I'd echo yacc's thoughts, though. Are you buying with cash or finance? If you're financing the purchase then the better interest rates, better engine, manufacturer warranty etc make buying new a vastly superior option for the few extra dollars it will cost you per month, and in fact with a new vehicle you can be confident in increasing the term because of the longevity of the vehicle and thus potentially lower your payments.

Lynskey 06-03-2013 10:28 AM

When I was young I purchased a few used cars from used car dealers. Some of them ended up crapping out and others were then traded in for the next used car. Most places provide a 30-day warranty and that is about all. You may get lucky and you may not.

When I bought used way back when, we didn't have carfax and other neat tools. Definately get the car fax and maybe even have a trusted mechanic take a look. But agreed that a used 2007 2WD for over $17k is nonsense.

n00g7 06-03-2013 10:29 AM

If neither you, nor your parents have any knowledge about jeeps or buying used in general, it's difficult to recommend buying a used (newer) jeep. If you were talking about 04-06 with 50k miles and a clean carfax, there's not much that the previous owner could do to the thing in that few miles that would prevent you from running it another 80k without much drama. So, unless you're set on 4-doors, look into stepping down a year.

Any frame/accident damage you uncovered would be covered through the carfax.

Edit: Also, what's your location? East coast/midwest older jeeps may have frame rust issues, whereas if you're in the south, desert or west you're not going to see those issue.

jeepers29 06-03-2013 10:32 AM

First off, 2wd is going to kill tour resale value. Second, as already posted, most if not all cars on used lots have either got issues or were to beat up for a dealer to put on their used lot. I would really suggest if your are looking for a used vehicle, go with a private sale. There are plenty of quality inspection services that will travel to the car/jeep and do an inspection for you.

Barmanvarn 06-03-2013 10:32 AM

Ill add this:

I know you say 2wd is fine as you will never go off road. Just know that there are a lot of people that say that, then change their mind.

If you end up being one of those people, you may or may not be satisfied with not having 4wd.

Just throwing that out there for you to consider. :)

woah_amie 06-03-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woansleftpeg (Post 3820324)
KBB shows that a 2007 Wrangler X 4WD in excellent condition with 55K on the clock should retail at around $19.5K, so a 2WD for a couple of grand less might not be that far out of the ballpark. I'd echo yacc's thoughts, though. Are you buying with cash or finance? If you're financing the purchase then the better interest rates, better engine, manufacturer warranty etc make buying new a vastly superior option for the few extra dollars it will cost you per month, and in fact with a new vehicle you can be confident in increasing the term because of the longevity of the vehicle and thus potentially lower your payments.

Oh, I wish I could buy new. BELIEVE ME. I just have really young credit (which sucks, cause they don't want to invest a $22,000 with someone like me) and only have $3,400, which is what my trade in is worth. I don't wanna be paying more than $230 a month. So new is out of the question. :nonono:

derf 06-03-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woah_amie (Post 3820310)
So should I even bother?

It has a carfax report, but I don't know how reliable those things are either.

Carfax is hit or miss. It doesn't always report everything.

I would say you should go look at the Jeep. But do some research. Have it looked over by an independent mechanic. If they won't let you do that, walk away. If it has significant problems, walk away. Research the real value price on the Jeep and if they won't negotiate to a reasonable price, walk away. If it just feels too good to be true it probably is and you need to walk away.

Go in armed with as much information as you can get. If something doesn't add up, don't buy that particular Jeep.

Don't get attached to any car you're looking at buying. If you do, you'll get stuck paying way more on the car than you should and you'll end up regretting the purchase with nothing you can do about it. There's always another Jeep on another lot down the road. Wait until you find one in good enough shape that has a reasonable price and buy that one.

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woah_amie (Post 3820343)
Oh, I wish I could buy new. BELIEVE ME. I just have really young credit (which sucks, cause they don't want to invest a $22,000 with someone like me) and only have $3,400, which is what my trade in is worth. I don't wanna be paying more than $230 a month. So new is out of the question. :nonono:

OK, but a quick bit of research shows me that that 2WD is an awful deal. For example:

2007 Jeep Wrangler SAHARA

That's the same year ('07) with lower mileage on the clock (58,000 km = 36,250 miles) for a much higher spec (Sahara) with 4WD from an authorised Jeep main dealer, and it's about $1000 cheaper (C$16,900 = US$16,400).

Whereabouts are you? Let's have a look on Autotrader and find some slightly better options than this.

4Jeepn 06-03-2013 10:40 AM

If you want a unlimited get a 4wd version. No it does not have to do with going off road. In everyday life its just better. for example, that sudden snow storm that rolls in while you in a cold climate state, or high water on your street from a heavy rain. Not to mention that at some point when you go to sell a 4wd version your not going to have to wait to find a buyer as you would with the 2wd version. There is a reason Jeep stopped making them in 2wd.

woah_amie 06-03-2013 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woansleftpeg (Post 3820362)
OK, but a quick bit of research shows me that that 2WD is an awful deal. For example:

2007 Jeep Wrangler SAHARA

That's the same year ('07) with lower mileage on the clock (52,000 km = 32,500 miles) for a much higher spec (Sahara) with 4WD from an authorised Jeep main dealer, and it's about $1000 cheaper (C$16,900 = US$16,400).

Whereabouts are you? Let's have a look on Autotrader and find some slightly better options than this.

Miami, FL.

Mr Mac 06-03-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woah_amie (Post 3820217)
not looking to go off-roading or anything like that... :hide:

We don't do much off-roading either, but it sure is nice to have when it snows! Down in Florida there are a lot of little roads that lead to...can't tell for the trees! We used to just drive on in where we could to check things out and have found some pretty cool ponds and small spring fed lakes and because of the sand were real happy we had 4WD available.

Never discount the possibility of needing or even wanting off-road capability! Do it just once and you'll be hooked!

As for dealing with used car dealers, never accept anything as gospel unless it is in writing and then it needs to be on a "we-owe" sheet or in the contract and must be signed! Ask questions and ask a lot of them if you have them. A good salesperson will answer every question or find the answer, if you think you're getting an answer that isn't honest, then you probably aren't. The old saying is buyer be ware, not seller.

Not all used car sales people are as bad as their reputations but there are some out there.

Good luck and keep us informed!

Y-Guy 06-03-2013 10:48 AM

First off don't get emotionally attached, it's an object nothing more. Do your homework before you arrive; NADA, KBB, CarFax, etc. Let the sales man yak all they want, take your time. Inspect in detail. Forget the shiney tires, the wax, etc. Look at the wear on the tires/seats/carpet/steering wheel, get down on the ground, look for oil dripping spots, rust, signs of off-roading. Popular Mechanics has a pretty good detailed Inspection sheet (see below).

Work with your Credit Union to get financing before you go, know your payments before you buy or better yet pay cash.

I've told each sales guys I won't play games; I want their first best price up front, I hate the sales manager in the smoke filled back room approving or not, bring the guy out to the table with me (it's a game). Remember you've done your homework you know what a fair price should be. If the dealer isn't playing games you'll get it, make one counter offer if they come back with more games get up and walk, look at another vehicle.

Now if the deal looks good, finalize it with it pending inspection at a facility of your choice, if they get pushy about this or don't want to take it as a sign that they are possibly hiding something.

The reality is that most dealerships don't have a clue about the vehicle they are selling, they don't do major inspections. It comes in on a truck, they unload, fluff and buff and resell it. Sales guys and dealerships are about moving product, towards the end of the month they are more motivated to sell.

How to Buy a Used Car Without Getting Burned - PM's 101-Point Checklist - Popular Mechanics

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woah_amie (Post 3820367)
Miami, FL.

This is presumably the Jeep you're looking at:

Cars for Sale: 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited X in Doral, FL 33178: Sport Utility Details - 342130189 - AutoTrader.com

First red flag on that for me is that they're so proud of the spare tire being brand new. Tire rotation is a pretty simple piece of maintenance, if they haven't even done that then what else has been neglected?

Does it have to be an Unlimited?

woah_amie 06-03-2013 10:54 AM

I was thinking of going to my local Jeep dealership now and seeing if I could lease a Jeep. I'm not planning on adding any extras, and I certainly don't plan on taking it off-road.

I have good credit, just young credit. Do you think that'll prevent me from getting a good rate on a car?

Ugh, this is so hard. :banghead:

yacc 06-03-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woah_amie (Post 3820343)
Oh, I wish I could buy new. BELIEVE ME. I just have really young credit (which sucks, cause they don't want to invest a $22,000 with someone like me) and only have $3,400, which is what my trade in is worth. I don't wanna be paying more than $230 a month. So new is out of the question. :nonono:

Are you sure about this? It has been my experience that it is much easier and cheaper to get financed on a new vehicle than it is on a used one. Used vehicles carry a much higher risk of default due to age and a lack of comprehensive warranty, among other things. Often times, especially with gently used vehicles, the payments are lower on a new vehicle.

Also, if your budget is so tight, you probably should avoid that Wrangler like the plague, as it is well out of warranty. Any problems it incurs, you will have to pay for out of pocket. Also, at 6 years old and 60k miles, it is getting to the point where maintenance issues are going to start cropping up. Brakes, tires, hoses, belts, fluid changes, etc. These things can all add up, and often they start failing or wearing out about the age of this vehicle.

I would certainly not want to be stuck with several years on a finance term and a vehicle that will be needing repairs and maintenance several times a year. This is why I say I would not even consider that Jeep at anywhere near their asking price. Think about it, say you are paying $230 a month when a brand new Jeep woulda cost you $330 a month. The brand new Jeep would need $0 in maintenance, and I bet that one is going to come closer to $100/mo in maintenance, making your out of pocket about the same.

By the way, I did a quick calculation, that Jeep for 17500-3500 down payment, plus tax and 10%(this is probably too low) interest, your payment would be $292 for 6 years! A 2013 Jeep for 23000-3500 down payment, plus tax and a 5% interest rate would be $342 for 6 years. If I were you, I would look at new, that $50/mo might be the best money you ever spent.

woah_amie 06-03-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woansleftpeg (Post 3820401)
This is presumably the Jeep you're looking at:

Cars for Sale: 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited X in Doral, FL 33178: Sport Utility Details - 342130189 - AutoTrader.com

First red flag on that for me is that they're so proud of the spare tire being brand new. Tire rotation is a pretty simple piece of maintenance, if they haven't even done that then what else has been neglected?

Does it have to be an Unlimited?

No, not at all. It can be pretty much anything. :redface:

n00g7 06-03-2013 10:59 AM

If you don't care about # of doors... This is what I'd be getting for 17k. Typically I'd wait on prices for about a month before pulling the trigger on the next one that falls within my desired price range.


https://img.vast.com/original/-8066850315480552339
http://oi43.tinypic.com/21br8zb.jpg

woansleftpeg 06-03-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woah_amie (Post 3820411)
No, not at all. It can be pretty much anything. :redface:

There's loads more value on the 2 door JKs. You'll get 4WD, lower mileage and much wider choice with a 2 door, you'll also get better gas mileage.

I agree with yacc still, though. I would at least talk to a dealer and crunch some numbers with them on a new Jeep before you assume you can't get one. Tell them how much you can afford, and then make them do the work to fit a new Jeep into the deal.

woah_amie 06-03-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00g7 (Post 3820426)
If you don't care about # of doors... This is what I'd be getting for 17k. Typically I'd wait on prices for about a month before pulling the trigger on the next one that falls within my desired price range.


https://img.vast.com/original/-8066850315480552339
http://oi43.tinypic.com/21br8zb.jpg

I had called them earlier today and talked to the finance dude and asked with my trade in, if it was possible to get that car on $230 a month. He laughed, said no, and hung up.

n00g7 06-03-2013 11:04 AM

Don't finance through the dealership. 15k over 6 yr at 3.X% is right around $250. Call up your credit union or even wells fargo. USAA might do autoloans for new baking members. Their process is painless.


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