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-   -   Brand of gas / driving style? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/brand-of-gas-driving-style-249177.html)

Scott2373 06-13-2013 05:58 PM

Brand of gas / driving style?
 
My previous vehicle, a 2003 Liberty Renegade had the 3.7L V6 in it and I quickly realized that this engine loved to be "abused". Ran hard and fast and ran it's best on the cheapest American gas I could find (Kwik Fill in my neck of the woods) and subsequently got the best mileage on the cheap stuff as well. Being an American motor, I figured they tuned it with American gas, but this is purely speculation. I'm wondering if anyone noticed that a particular brand of gas gets better mileage/performance with the 3.6L. I kinda figured that being a European designed power plant, it might run better on, say, Mobil which is obviously an international brand. I'm very hesitant to buy Mobil gas because it is easily $.10 cents more/gallon, and I doubt the savings in mileage would add up to the extra I'd be spending at the pump. Thoughts?

dawhitesJKU 06-13-2013 06:10 PM

i use chevron or mobil due to the fact that the locations are very convenient for me.
I fill up using 87 and once every other month, i switch to 91. i get the same gas mileage using either chevron or mobil but when i switch to 91, the engine seems to love it.

Scott2373 06-13-2013 06:16 PM

What kind of mileage are you seeing? Currently I'm averaging 19mpg with the Kwik Fill and a little less with Sunoco. We don't have Chevron in NY, or I would use it. Their gas is very high quality. I won't run the 91 though, since the manufacturer specifies 89. I did what you are now with my old '99 Dodge Ram, which I bought new, and it developed a nasty case of pre-ignition after several years, which more than one experienced "car guy" I spoke with attributed to running the higher octane fuel. Rather than fixing it, I traded it, since it was paid for :-D

jt12 06-13-2013 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott2373 (Post 3858105)
What kind of mileage are you seeing? Currently I'm averaging 19mpg with the Kwik Fill and a little less with Sunoco. We don't have Chevron in NY, or I would use it. Their gas is very high quality. I won't run the 91 though, since the manufacturer specifies 89. I did what you are now with my old '99 Dodge Ram, which I bought new, and it developed a nasty case of pre-ignition after several years, which more than one experienced "car guy" I spoke with attributed to running the higher octane fuel. Rather than fixing it, I traded it, since it was paid for :-D

I've with 89 from whatever company, regardless of what I'm doing. Haven't tried comparing and contrasting, but interested in hearing from people that have and whether they've noticed anything significant.

dawhitesJKU 06-13-2013 06:44 PM

im getting high 19's low 20's on my 2012 6spd 3.21 gears and 285/70/17's

Martin10 06-13-2013 06:48 PM

Is there really any difference in brands of gas these days? I have a friend who owns two stop in stores. He has changed "brands" of gas a couple of times over the years and said it all comes from the same storage tanks in the same delivery trucks. There is a huge storage facility about 50 miles from here and evidently all of the gas in our area comes from the same facility which is owned by Marathon. So is brand name gas just a scam or does it depend on where you live?

n00g7 06-13-2013 06:51 PM

Chevron has the best gas. Period. Texaco also uses Chevron detergents. This is followed by Shell and other top-tier stations.

I'll alternate between Chevron and Costco gas in the Jeep. BMW sees only Chevron.

n00g7 06-13-2013 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin10 (Post 3858186)
Is there really any difference in brands of gas these days? I have a friend who owns two stop in stores. He has changed "brands" of gas a couple of times over the years and said it all comes from the same storage tanks in the same delivery trucks. There is a huge storage facility about 50 miles from here and evidently all of the gas in our area comes from the same facility which is owned by Marathon. So is brand name gas just a scam or does it depend on where you live?

Depends, no-name gas stations may receive gas meeting tier 1 standards, or they may not. You do not necessarily "know" unless it comes from (1) a particular refinery (e.g., Chevron) and (2) that refinery uses the same mix for all deliveries.

n00g7 06-13-2013 06:55 PM

I've gotten bad gas enough times driving cross country that I don't screw around with non name-brand gas stations.

yacc 06-13-2013 07:05 PM

My wrangler gets treated just like my trucks always have, cheapest 87 octane I can find. Generally QT or Racetrac. Never noticed any difference in any of it.

tab22092 06-13-2013 08:03 PM

I use 89. Remember that our rigs require 87 octane. So you may be saying to yourself why not just regular then? If you look at the buttons you press they will have +/- 2 method. So in actuality 87 could be 85, causing some well known problems with the 3.6 such as pinging and detonation. With 89 will always at least be 87. Our compression ratio is right on the brink of 87's top end, its quite high for regular. So there ya go! Lol 89! .

THW 06-13-2013 08:15 PM

I grew up riding in gasoline delivery trucks as a kid- I worked the hoses at delivery. We'd fill up at the terminal (those gigantic building-sized tanks you see near the highway on a coast) and deliver to multiple different brands of stations sometimes even from a single tankful of a particular octane. Never heard of "American gas"- we delivered the same gas to Citgo stations (Venezuelan corporation) as to Texaco (Texas-based). For some stations you mix in additives after delivery but my understanding was that was basically marketing hocus pocus. Rule of thumb is basically that gas is gas is gas (different octanes obviously make a difference though).

n00g7 06-13-2013 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THW (Post 3858485)
I grew up riding in gasoline delivery trucks as a kid- I worked the hoses at delivery. We'd fill up at the terminal (those gigantic building-sized tanks you see near the highway on a coast) and deliver to multiple different brands of stations sometimes even from a single tankful of a particular octane. Never heard of "American gas"- we delivered the same gas to Citgo stations (Venezuelan corporation) as to Texaco (Texas-based). For some stations you mix in additives after delivery but my understanding was that was basically marketing hocus pocus. Rule of thumb is basically that gas is gas is gas (different octanes obviously make a difference though).

This is what makes the difference. THEY WORK.

Hancock10 06-13-2013 11:33 PM

Arco (AmPm) is the cheapest around here...and my jeep flies thru it being my daily driver. I switched to chevron and noticed it lasted me about 1 to 1 1-2 days more. Or about 20-30 miles

m998dna 06-14-2013 02:43 AM

My shade tree study
 
OK .. I just found this thread and thought this would be a good place to document my findings.

My 2013 10A fuel mileage started at 14.8/15 MPG when I drove off the lot ... it currently has ~700 miles. This was combination city/hwy ... mostly city miles with one oil change at 500 miles. The dealer poured 0w20 per the RO .. tires inflated to 42 psi.

The issue I've experienced is the gas mileage dropped to 13.8 average as stated on the EVIC. This started right before the oil change. I'm not one to track or care about MPG because I'm not wired that way - what I do care about is tuning and performance to assure the engine is happy.

So I decided to switch from Chevron 89 to 91 octane fuel and I immediately gained an average 0.5 MPG. The motor is hovering right around 14.2 MPG now and I still have 3/4 tank to burn through.

This 3.6L motor runs better on 91 octane gas .. and it shows in the fuel mileage.


.02

.

m998dna 06-14-2013 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00g7 (Post 3858193)
Chevron has the best gas. Period. Texaco also uses Chevron detergents. This is followed by Shell and other top-tier stations.

I'll alternate between Chevron and Costco gas in the Jeep. BMW sees only Chevron.

That's because you work at Chevron? Bay Area? ... LOL

My cousin and his wife has worked at Chevron headquarters for over 30 years.

I buy Chevron now because Techron really works.. I can prove it.


;)

.

n00g7 06-14-2013 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m998dna (Post 3859422)
That's because you work at Chevron? Bay Area? ... LOL

My cousin and his wife has worked at Chevron headquarters for over 30 years.

I buy Chevron now because Techron really works.. I can prove it.


;)

.

I do not work for Chevron. Top Tier Gasoline Chevron just happens to exceed the manufacturer's expectations. It's why many truck it in/utilize their detergent for vehicle testing.

It's similar to a dino vs synthetic issue. If you plan to run the vehicle until it dies, put in the better shit. If plan on ditching it, you don't care.

12thman 06-14-2013 05:24 AM

Every few weeks this comes up on this forum.*I work in an oil refinery. As far as using anything in your Jeep other than what the owner's manual calls for, that's foolish. I will let you in on some secrets. Most of the nation's refineries are on the coasts. Gas stations close to those refineries get their gas at the refineries. Stations that don't have their own refinery nearby buy it from one that is local. If you move inland, the trucks pick up from terminals where we all ship gasoline to them via pipeline and it all gets mixed together in the tanks. The only thing you are getting different from another station is the additive. There isn't a requirement for how much additive, either. It can be one drop per tanker. Also be aware that just because it says one name on the sign, it's not necessarily that station. I work for an independant refiner, meaning we don't drill. We own hundreds of Shell stations in the Bay Area. Not one of them is actually Shell and if you look at the very fine print you will see it says, "operated by xxxxxx". You might also notice that none of the fuels say Shell with V-Power-their additive. To make it even more confusing, at my refinery, we have a Chevron terminal where their trucks come in and pick up fuel to take to their stations. On top of that, we all buy fuel from each other during maintenance shutdowns to fulfill our contracts. Ultimately, buy the cheapest gas at the recommended octane and if you want Techron, go buy it in the bottle at the auto parts store. It will still be cheaper.

00tj2 06-14-2013 05:26 AM

Figured I'd join in on this one. First off to the OP, the 3.7 was a Mercedes design.

As for the fuel issue. Most top tier companies only add their special detergents or additives to their high test gas, as in 91 or 93, depending on what area you are in and what brand it is. Regular and mid grade fuel is cheap and can come from many different locals. It's the premium, or high test fuel that is the special one. Unless things have greatly changed in the 6 years that my family sold our 56 year, family owned gas station?? Btw we sold amoco gas and then later BP. Got our deliveries from a jobber and the only amoco specific fuel was the 93.

warbird24 06-14-2013 05:31 AM

Technically in Upstate NY there are NO Top Tier Gas Stations. The other issue is State Mandated Ethanol Use of a minimum of 10%, this is a political thing to justify the Huge new Ethanol Processing plant in Medina NY.

My 12 JK was getting on about 17.5 to 18.5 MPG on pump gas with Ethanol. I found out that a few retailer were selling 91 Octane with no Ethanol and decided to give it a try. I have two tanks through my JK and my fuel mpg had gone up to 19.0-19.5 MPG. It is a un-scientific experiment but it looks like it is working.

One reason that this is working is Ethanol blended fuels have LESS BTU's than full unleaded fuels. While the Octane remains the same, BTU's are the actual working dynamic of making power.

I've worked delivering fuels for a number of years and I now work at an Auto Parts Store. I'll tell you that the number of fuel pumps we sell has exploded over the past 3-4 years, and most of that is due to Ethanol problems and lack of lubrication of the pumps.

Going this route may cost me a few pennies a week when I fill up, but I think for the care and feeding of my JK, I'll bank on that.

mcgee10 06-14-2013 05:54 AM

Any brand that is 100% gasoline 0% ethanol. Ethanol makes all brands of gasoline take on water. All mileage figures are based on 100% gasoline. But most stations today are at least 10% ethanol.
Here is a link for some stations in your State that sell gas without ethanol. My boat and snowmobile will not run gas with ethanol in it, and my jeep gets 3-4 more mpg with non-ethanol gas.
Link---http://pure-gas.org/

THW 06-14-2013 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thman (Post 3859544)
Every few weeks this comes up on this forum.*I work in an oil refinery. As far as using anything in your Jeep other than what the owner's manual calls for, that's foolish. I will let you in on some secrets. Most of the nation's refineries are on the coasts. Gas stations close to those refineries get their gas at the refineries. Stations that don't have their own refinery nearby buy it from one that is local. If you move inland, the trucks pick up from terminals where we all ship gasoline to them via pipeline and it all gets mixed together in the tanks. The only thing you are getting different from another station is the additive. There isn't a requirement for how much additive, either. It can be one drop per tanker. Also be aware that just because it says one name on the sign, it's not necessarily that station. I work for an independant refiner, meaning we don't drill. We own hundreds of Shell stations in the Bay Area. Not one of them is actually Shell and if you look at the very fine print you will see it says, "operated by xxxxxx". You might also notice that none of the fuels say Shell with V-Power-their additive. To make it even more confusing, at my refinery, we have a Chevron terminal where their trucks come in and pick up fuel to take to their stations. On top of that, we all buy fuel from each other during maintenance shutdowns to fulfill our contracts. Ultimately, buy the cheapest gas at the recommended octane and if you want Techron, go buy it in the bottle at the auto parts store. It will still be cheaper.

Yup. To add to this, those trucks that pick up the gas and deliver it are often owned by independent distributors who sell and deliver the gas to multiple brands of gas stations (which are usually just franchises with private owners). So your "Chevron gas" could have been drilled by BP, refined by an independent, sold to a Shell terminal, sold to an independent distributor, and finally delivered to a gas station wholly owned by some dude named Bob who pays Chevron for the right and privilege to put their name on his sign. The same delivery truck's next stop might be Phil's Gas-O-Rama down the street.

m998dna 06-14-2013 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thman (Post 3859544)
Every few weeks this comes up on this forum.*I work in an oil refinery. As far as using anything in your Jeep other than what the owner's manual calls for, that's foolish.

Foolish?

Obviously you didn't read my results. I could give a sh*t where gas comes from. My cousin travels the world for Chevron and explained the supply the chain strategies to me many years ago. I don't need a speech about oil refineries and additives - in that respect you and many others here are correct.

But to say using anything other than what's specified in the owners manual is ignorant.

If you listen to many 3.6L owners, they are telling you this motor is detonating and runs better on 91 octane - despite what the "owners manual" says. If you want to discuss the effects of compression ratios, ignition timing, heat and detonation to support your statement, I'm willing to hear to what you have to say. But to simply recite what's written in Chrysler's owner's manual is completely ridiculous.

How up-to-date are owner manuals? LOL .. you're talking to someone that's in charge of technical documentation and distribution for a global medical device company. Your ER hospital stay could mean life or death dependent how accurate the lab results are in the basement of a hospital.

So when a doctor opens you up based on what the owners manual says and a lab test result in the end was a false positive - come back and explain the accuracy of that information.

There's the owner's manual and then there's real world experience - reminds me of the book worms or engineers in life that claim they are experts. In the meantime everything is falling apart around them.

The Chrysler boys (engineers) haven't figured out why their precious 3.6L Pentastar motor is falling apart in the field under certain conditions - or at least they're not telling us why its falling apart.

I had a 562ci Hemi that was designed to run on 91 octane - 10.5:1 compression, aluminum heads, Ross pistions, Eagle rods, MSD ignition - in the real world it ran better when I fed it 100 octane fuel.

Explain that please.

:rolleyes:

.

THW 06-14-2013 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m998dna (Post 3860019)
Foolish?

Obviously you didn't read my results. I could give a sh*t where gas comes from. My cousin travels the world for Chevron and explained the supply the chain strategies to me many years ago. I don't need a speech about oil refineries and additives - in that respect you and many others here are correct.

But to say using anything other than what's specified in the owners manual is ignorant.

If you listen to many 3.6L owners, they are telling you this motor is detonating and runs better on 91 octane - despite what the "owners manual" says. If you want to discuss the effects of compression ratios, ignition timing, heat and detonation to support your statement, I'm willing to hear to what you have to say. But to simply recite what's written in Chrysler's owner's manual is completely ridiculous.

How up-to-date are owner manuals? LOL .. you're talking to someone that's in charge of technical documentation and distribution for a global medical device company. Your ER hospital stay could mean life or death dependent how accurate the lab results are in the basement of a hospital.

So when a doctor opens you up based on what the owners manual says and a lab test result in the end was a false positive - come back and explain the accuracy of that information.

There's the owner's manual and then there's real world experience - reminds me of the book worms or engineers in life that claim they are experts. In the meantime everything is falling apart around them.

The Chrysler boys (engineers) haven't figured out why their precious 3.6L Pentastar motor is falling apart in the field under certain conditions - or at least they're not telling us why its falling apart.

I had a 562ci Hemi that was designed to run on 91 octane - 10.5:1 compression, aluminum heads, Ross pistions, Eagle rods, MSD ignition - in the real world it ran better when I fed it 100 octane fuel.

Explain that please.

:rolleyes:

.

I'm sure you're correct about the science, but you're wrong from a legal perspective. Try taking a blown 3.6 to the dealership after running 91 octane in it and expecting the warranty to cover it. As dumb as the owner's manual might be as a matter of mechanical function or efficiency, it's basically the bible with regard to the legal parameters of reasonable use. Even if you could somehow prove that the 91 octane is actually better for some reason (not that such proof would actually bring the issue under warranty protection) you'd have to endure substantial litigation costs in order to get the opportunity to do so. Until my lifetime powertrain runs out, I'll stick with the recommended octane!

m998dna 06-14-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THW (Post 3860362)
I'm sure you're correct about the science, but you're wrong from a legal perspective. Try taking a blown 3.6 to the dealership after running 91 octane in it and expecting the warranty to cover it. As dumb as the owner's manual might be as a matter of mechanical function or efficiency, it's basically the bible with regard to the legal parameters of reasonable use. Even if you could somehow prove that the 91 octane is actually better for some reason (not that such proof would actually bring the issue under warranty protection) you'd have to endure substantial litigation costs in order to get the opportunity to do so. Until my lifetime powertrain runs out, I'll stick with the recommended octane!

That can be debated... Chrysler claims this engine runs on 87 octane gas - which it does. If they openly admit there's a design issue and it really needs 91 octane fuel then there will be a class action lawsuit.

I've read enough to believe there's an inherent design flaw in the 3.6L Pentastar.. and Chrysler's claims of engineering robustness is hot air - pun intended.

I will feed my 3.6L what it likes.. I'd rather avoid dealer visits and multiple head swaps.

;)

.

CrazyBull 06-14-2013 11:35 AM

Brand of gas / driving style?
Uhm guys? maybe you haven't noticed but you are driving a Jeep. Not a cadillac STS. You fill it, it goes. I guess it's the new age yuppie "Hey these JKs are neat!" thing.

Driving style?
You get in and go. Most of you are mall crawlers or you wouldn't be discussing gas anyway. There is no "Style". Techniques for offroading...YES. "Style"? No..unless you are discussing hats, is this dress to short, the wind musses my hair.

Get a life, go enjoy your ride. Jeeping is not an anal retentive experience. It's more like...this. 70 miles from my house. And I kept this vid simple so even non mods can understand what they can do. He isn't worried about gas, or style. He IS Style.

Jeep Wrangler Sport Moab UT - YouTube

m998dna 06-14-2013 11:49 AM

That's all well and good until the thing pukes trans oil all over those nice boulders.

Read the recent recall notices.

:thumb:

.

CrazyBull 06-14-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m998dna (Post 3860536)
That's all well and good until the thing pukes trans oil all over those nice boulders.

Read the recent recall notices.

:thumb:

.

12' Stick and I do have skids. :thumb: And a few other attachments...

THW 06-14-2013 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m998dna (Post 3860432)
That can be debated... Chrysler claims this engine runs on 87 octane gas - which it does. If they openly admit there's a design issue and it really needs 91 octane fuel then there will be a class action lawsuit.

I've read enough to believe there's an inherent design flaw in the 3.6L Pentastar.. and Chrysler's claims of engineering robustness is hot air - pun intended.

I will feed my 3.6L what it likes.. I'd rather avoid dealer visits and multiple head swaps.

;)

.

Good luck to that class in their argument against Chrysler's Motion to Dismiss their action for failure to state a claim. You need to show harm to prevail on a design defect claim- annoyingly ticking engines and even legitimately blown heads that are replaced in good faith pursuant to the warranty ain't gonna cut it! :D

m998dna 06-14-2013 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THW (Post 3861224)
Good luck to that class in their argument against Chrysler's Motion to Dismiss their action for failure to state a claim. You need to show harm to prevail on a design defect claim- annoyingly ticking engines and even legitimately blown heads that are replaced in good faith pursuant to the warranty ain't gonna cut it! :D

The question is who's side would you be on?


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