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LoCo Jeep 06-16-2013 12:26 PM

Newbie Questions
 
Hello all I just bought a 2013 Wrangler 2 door sport and would like some questions answered.

1) Do all 2013 Wrangler have Brake Lock Differential?

2) If they do is the Brake Lock Differential on both axles?

3) Why would one need a limited slip differential if your Jeep is equipped with Brake Lock Differential?

I'll will probably have more questions in the future but this will do for now. Thanks

LoCo Jeep 06-16-2013 05:27 PM

Well....I did some digging and found that all Wranglers do indeed come with brake lock differentials standard. It's part of the traction control system.

That answers my first question but I would still like to hear from some of the "experts" about my 2 other questions.

mcgee10 06-16-2013 05:37 PM

If this helps you out, my first off roading trip made the BLD look like a terrible idea. My jeep had 400 miles on it when I had both the front and rear differentials changed. In my rear I have a Eaton trutrac and the front had a Eaton E locker I have since then removed the E locker and put another trutrac in the front as well. For my type of wheeling this set up has been perfect for us.
The BLD will be ok for some people it's all in how you are using your jeep.

MTH 06-16-2013 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3866242)
1) Do all 2013 Wrangler have Brake Lock Differential?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3866242)
2) If they do is the Brake Lock Differential on both axles?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3866242)
3) Why would one need a limited slip differential if your Jeep is equipped with Brake Lock Differential?

BLD uses the braking system to act LIKE a real LSD--but it's not a real LSD.

BLD requires more wheel spin to engage, and when it does engage it does so by applying the brakes to the spinning wheel. That drains forward power. A real LSD doesn't do that.

BLD is much better than nothing, but not as good as a real LSD. The BLD system is indeed really good, but you'd be even better off with front and rear LSDs or (depending on your terrain preferences) lockers.

LoCo Jeep 06-16-2013 07:40 PM

Thankyou MTH for the thorough response. So the main reason a LSD is better than a BLD is because it doesn't drain forward power?

JTPhoto JK 06-16-2013 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3867181)
Thankyou MTH for the thorough response. So the main reason a LSD is better than a BLD is because it doesn't drain forward power?

Correct.

insylem 06-16-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 3867108)
Yes.


. The BLD system is indeed really good, but you'd be even better off with front and rear LSDs or (depending on your terrain preferences) lockers.


The lockers is what sold me on the Rubicon

MTH 06-16-2013 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3867181)
Thankyou MTH for the thorough response. So the main reason a LSD is better than a BLD is because it doesn't drain forward power?

Pretty much, yes.

My understanding is that BLD works because it applies the brakes on the spinning wheel. That sends power to the other side, but it also is in fact APPLYING the brakes. When you apply the brakes, you decrease forward power.

By contrast, a real LSD uses clutch packs or gears in the differential to send power to the side with traction. There's little or no power loss.

Additionally, BLD is relying on a computer system to trip a sensor when one wheel free spins too much in relation to the other wheel. A real LSD operates mechanically on the basis of clutches or gears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by insylem (Post 3867692)

The lockers is what sold me on the Rubicon

Indeed. They are better in pretty much all offroad situations.

Of course, they're much worse than LSDs in onroad, slippery conditions--like winter roads.

You've got to be realistic about your needs when shopping for a wrangler.

insylem 06-17-2013 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 3867982)
Indeed. They are better in pretty much all offroad situations.

Of course, they're much worse than LSDs in onroad, slippery conditions--like winter roads.


Yes, and as far as what I've read the Rubicon still has the BLSD. But yes, I could see a locker on watery slippery roads causeing problems. Glad I can turn tem off ;)

Rooster76 06-17-2013 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3867181)
Thankyou MTH for the thorough response. So the main reason a LSD is better than a BLD is because it doesn't drain forward power?

BLD and LSD work together. LSD added will help catch faster I believe. It will defiantly help transfer more torque, when needed, to the wheel on the opposite side of the axle. It's best to be clear on how an open differential works by splitting the power to both wheels. If one wheel has low traction, to the point of wheel spin, almost all the power just goes to spinning that wheel. It becomes the path of least resistance. Just watch this VERY GOOD video and you'll get the issues with open differentials(diffs) and why LSD is needed.
http://youtu.be/yYAw79386WI
Situations where LSD/BLD is needed would be where one tire on an axle has lost traction and is spinning. The BLD using breaks, on just that one spinning wheel, doesn't drain forward power. Its spinning without traction. LSD does the same thing just in the differential. It adds resistance to the spinning wheel. That transfers some power that is following the path of least resistance to the wheel on the other side of the axle.
LSD MORE TRACTION TRICK
With a LSD you can add just a bit of break and/or parking break to amplify the LSD's power in low traction situations.

Most people who get trac-lok option like it. Its only added to the rear axle. Thats the driving axle in 2wd. Because it uses wearable clutch plates it looses strength over time. At 100,000 you might essentially not get any benefit. In that case you would be better off going with a Eaton Truetrac LSD than replacing the plates. Truetracs LSD gear (vs clutch) design doesn't wear over time. If your going to get bigger tires and regear, you may just want to get Truetracs installed at the same time. They are better than the factory Trac-lok LSD option.

This is a good link to check out if you still hazy about how BLD(called eLSD in the article) and Trac-lok works. http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270

Rooster76 06-17-2013 01:06 AM

Rubicon's lockers only work in 4-low. When on road they are not usable. It would be just like a sport without the LSD option. Unless there is a blizzard and your going less than 25mph. On road sports and Saharas with LSD have a traction advantage. Offroad lockers are far better than LSD.

LoCo Jeep 06-17-2013 01:15 AM

Thanks for all of the responses. Now let my change "gears" with another question.

When a Wrangler is in 4 low or 4 high do all 4 wheels have equal torque?

Or does one wheel on each axle supply more torque than the other?

Rooster76 06-17-2013 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3868155)
Thanks for all of the responses. Now let my change "gears" with another question.

When a Wrangler is in 4 low or 4 high do all 4 wheels have equal torque?

Or does one wheel on each axle supply more torque than the other?

I'm not an engineer but this is how I understand it.

WITH LOCKERS YES
If you had front and rear lockers engaged all tires are going to get the same torque. Every wheel is turning at exactly the same speed. To turn, the ground or tire tread has to give on the inside tires.

OPEN DIFF 4WD NO (for the most part)
If your going in a straight line with no wheel slip, torque would also be equal on all wheels. Now back to the real world. 4WD (low or high) with a JK the front and rear drivelines are going to spin locked at the same rate. So power is going to be perfectly split between the two axles. The torque can be different on the front and rear axle. It could vary because of low wheel traction. To create torque to the wheels you need power and resistance (ground traction).

Power = torque x angular velocity

If the ground is soft, slippery, or a wheel is in the air you loose resistance and thus torque. That power becomes useless wheel spin. In an open diff situation, the available torque available for both wheels on the axle is going to be equal to the wheel with the least torque.

LSD/BLD
By adding resistance to that spinning tire, you up the available torque (pushing power of the wheel) to the other wheel on the axle. Sometimes both wheel on an axle have low traction (hope you aired down). That's when having 4wd is good for the other axle to pull/push you.

LoCo Jeep 06-17-2013 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooster76 (Post 3868117)
BLD and LSD work together. LSD added will help catch faster I believe. It will defiantly help transfer more torque, when needed, to the wheel on the opposite side of the axle. It's best to be clear on how an open differential works by splitting the power to both wheels. If one wheel has low traction, to the point of wheel spin, almost all the power just goes to spinning that wheel. It becomes the path of least resistance.
Situations where LSD/BLD is needed would be where one tire on an axle has lost traction and is spinning. The BLD using breaks, on just that one spinning wheel, doesn't drain forward power. Its spinning without traction. LSD does the same thing just in the differential. It adds resistance to the spinning wheel. That transfers some power that is following the path of least resistance to the wheel on the other side of the [/url]

So it appears from your explanation and my research LSD/BLD do the same thing, they just do it in a different way.

That leads me back to my original 3rd question......why would you need LSD if you have BLD?

LSD might be a little more efficient but if your Jeep already comes standard with BLD isn't LSD a little redundant?

Also isn't LSD only on the rear axle....BLD is on both axles?

I just don't see the big difference between the two for everyday on road driving in any weather condition and occasional weekend off road fun. Maybe the LSD is better for heavy off road situations?

Thanks Rooster76

MTH 06-17-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3868669)

So it appears from your explanation and my research LSD/BLD do the same thing, they just do it in a different way.

That leads me back to my original 3rd question......why would you need LSD if you have BLD?

LSD might be a little more efficient but if your Jeep already comes standard with BLD isn't LSD a little redundant?

Also isn't LSD only on the rear axle....BLD is on both axles?

I just don't see the big difference between the two for everyday on road driving in any weather condition and occasional weekend off road fun. Maybe the LSD is better for heavy off road situations?

Thanks Rooster76

One is a roundabout way to simulate something, the other is actually the thing being simulated.

AWD is kind of like 4WD. In many situations, they'd have similar results, though not universally.

Splenda is kind of like sugar. In many recipes, you almost can't taste the difference, though not always.

Numerous more affordable smartphones are sort of like the Apple iPhone, but they're not indistinguishable and are different.

The examples could go on and on, but is it really that hard to understand that having "the real McCoy" is generally more desirable than having something that sort of works kind of like the real McCoy?

BLD is very good. But it works by applying the brakes when traction is low, which is sometimes exactly when you'd rather not have the brakes involved. LSDs don't do that.

BLD relies on electronic sensors to determine when in should engage, and while sensors often function perfectly they can of course malfunction in ways that mechanical equipment (like an LSD) does not.

BLD requires that one wheel actually free spin for awhile before the BLD kicks on, that translates to a loss of traction and perhaps even forward progress while you're waiting. An LSD would generally not do that.

Those are material differences. They are not the same.

Unless you know ahead of time that you're going to install lockers or aftermarket LSDs, there's really no reason to order a wrangler without the LSD option.

I have BLD, but I've given serious thought to install aftermarket LSDs front and rear.

Rooster76 06-17-2013 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3868669)

So it appears from your explanation and my research LSD/BLD do the same thing, they just do it in a different way.

That leads me back to my original 3rd question......why would you need LSD if you have BLD?

LSD might be a little more efficient but if your Jeep already comes standard with BLD isn't LSD a little redundant?

Also isn't LSD only on the rear axle....BLD is on both axles?

I just don't see the big difference between the two for everyday on road driving in any weather condition and occasional weekend off road fun. Maybe the LSD is better for heavy off road situations?

Thanks Rooster76

It is redundant. If you have the factory LSD then BLD will add to its ability to give traction to you rear wheel not slipping. Neither one, or both together, are 100% effective in what it does. LSD might be roughly 25% better than nothing. LSD with BLD might be (and I'm pulling this number out of my ass) 35% more effective at making wasted power from wheel spin to torque. In contrast lockers are 100% effective. It's ability to work is expressed as the LSD's "bias ratio" if you want to do more of a search on it.

The main kind of areas that you would want LSD are driving rather slow situations without much momentum. Up a slick incline or at a stop sign that's rather icy or slick. If you see a number of those situations it would be a bonus. LSD is good on road because it never needs to be engaged, you won't notice it, and when you start to slip it catches traction faster. It's not just an off road thing. Rubicon's lockers on the other hand are just an off road thing. I cannot say if you need LSD. LSD is better than not having it, and has no real downsides.

Every JK made has BLD that will work on both axels. From the factory they only put the LSD option on the rear. That's the driving axle for 2wd. You can add LSD to both axles aftermarket. You cannot add LSD to a locker, but some lockers have LSD. Alburn ected max, or TJ Rubicon's have both. I'm not the person to say, but I heard in passing that they are good at both (LSD and Locker combos) but great at neither? I'm not in the market for one, so I haven't looked into it.

LSD AND BLD IS LIKE
You have a 3.8L jk engine that works.. and a super charger makes it accelerate faster. Why get the super charger. Because it gives better performance.

DEMO
This is a great video showing BLD in action. You'll see the wheel go airborne and stop spinning for a second as the BLD is applied by the jeep.
http://youtu.be/zVnspBtA1HU

WHY YOU WOULD WANT LOCKERS
WIth a rear locker I'm almost positive the jeep would just keep rolling. With both axles locked there is no doubt.
http://youtu.be/OWfFJZsODlo

LoCo Jeep 06-17-2013 11:18 AM

Rooster excellent information.

You said.....It is redundant. If you have the factory LSD then BLD will add to its ability to give traction to you rear wheel not slipping.

Did you mean..... If you have the factory BLD then LSD will add to its ability to give traction to you rear wheel not slipping. Since BLD is standard and LSD is an option?

LoCo Jeep 06-17-2013 11:23 AM

Rooster another question.

Is BLD active on the rear axle in 2 WD?

LoCo Jeep 06-17-2013 11:35 AM

Rooster another question....

Is LSD mainly for 2 WD? Because in 4WD if one of the back wheels slip and you didn't have LSD or BLD the front wheels would pull you forward.

dpostman 06-17-2013 11:36 AM

Another vote for LSD. My buddy went through a set of brake pads in one fall hunting season. That season was particularly wet and the road were muddy. I had at that time a Dodge Journey and I think it was AWD but the TCS kept comming on to help with traction and applying the "BLD". Well, that wore out his brake pads in no time.

I had LSD in my 2001 F150 that I sold 2 weeks ago, and the LSD worked perfect til the day I sold it. If it lays 2 tracks when you spin, the LSD is working. And it worked in forward and reverse.

Very few Wranglers had the LSD option on the dealer lots around here (Eastern Canada). One place where it is really nice to have it. So it was another thing that made me want to order my Jeep.

dp

Rooster76 06-17-2013 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3869214)
Rooster excellent information.

You said.....It is redundant. If you have the factory LSD then BLD will add to its ability to give traction to you rear wheel not slipping.

Did you mean..... If you have the factory BLD then LSD will add to its ability to give traction to you rear wheel not slipping. Since BLD is standard and LSD is an option?

Yeah, I should have said "factory LSD option". All JK's have BLD as part of the traction control system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3869226)
Is BLD active on the rear axle in 2WD?

The BLD system is always active 2wd or 4wd. In 2wd it's only going to work on the back because that is the only driving axle. In 4wd it will work on front and back. It doesn't ever shut off even if the Electronic Stability Control is disabled (like in 4-Low). Same thing with anti-lock breaks, it's always active as part of the jeeps computer driven traction control system . Normally on the road if you get a lot of wheel spin in addition to BLD it also lowers the throttle also. That is for safety so you don't fishtail if you hit an icy patch on the highway. It's not ideal off road where sometimes it takes some wheel spin to keep moving. Situations like doing donuts, mud and sand come to mind. There is a button below the radio that you can press(seem like you might have to hold it for a second) that will disable parts of the ESP-Electronic Stability Programming. It automatically disables those parts when you go into 4-Low. This link may explain it better then I am about how certain parts are disabled.
LINK> '07-Present Wrangler's Control System - ESP Off - Jp Magazine


Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3869257)
Is LSD mainly for 2WD? Because in 4WD if one of the back wheels slip and you didn't have LSD or BLD the front wheels would pull you forward.

Jeeps without BLD or LSD got through some serious stuff with just 4WD. BLD and LSD helps to make it more capable. They aid in traction and less wheel slipping. You don't have to just have one system helping out.

LoCo Jeep 06-17-2013 02:13 PM

Ok Rooster to summarize our conversation......

In 2WD on my 2013 Wrangler the drive wheels are the rear wheels. If one of the wheels slip due to road conditions the other wheel will engage because of the BLD.

In 4WD all 4 wheels pull the vehicle equally. If one of the wheels slip due to road conditions the other wheel on the same axle will engage again because of the BLD. Also the other axle will provide torque on its own.

BLD uses the braking system to stop a free wheeling wheel causing the other tire to engage. This process works on both axles and in 2 or 4WD drive high and low.

Is this pretty much it? If so I don't believe I will miss not having a LSD even though a BLD+LSD would be a little better than just the BLD by itself.

Rooster76 06-17-2013 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3869757)
Ok Rooster to summarize our conversation......

In 2WD on my 2013 Wrangler the drive wheels are the rear wheels. If one of the wheels slip due to road conditions the other wheel will engage because of the BLD.

In 4WD all 4 wheels pull the vehicle equally. If one of the wheels slip due to road conditions the other wheel on the same axle will engage again because of the BLD. Also the other axle will provide torque on its own.

BLD uses the braking system to stop a free wheeling wheel causing the other tire to engage. This process works on both axles and in 2 or 4WD drive high and low.

Is this pretty much it? If so I don't believe I will miss not having a LSD even though a BLD+LSD would be a little better than just the BLD by itself.

I agree with all those comments.

The only thing I question is if you grasp that BLD is no 100% effective. It's an aid and not a cure. Check out the front wheel at about 45 sec in the video below. You'll see that the BLD is sort of jerky at trying to get the closest (passenger) front wheel to spin the same speed. A factory LSD in this case would make no difference on the front tires you can see because its only installed in the rear. It would look the same in the rear with its jerky motion. With LSD added the wheel wouldn't be as jerky and would rotate a bit faster. With a locker (engaged) both wheels would be locked at the same rotation speed.
http://youtu.be/e8MAzmLSVIc

To boil it down to my personal opinion, I have a rubicon with just the BLD. I have had no issues so far where I felt LSD would have helped out. Maybe a couple times I have squeaked my tires on a rainy day at worst. I've drove in a fair amount of snow without issues, but indiana is pretty flat. I personally could take or leave trac-lok if a was looking for a new jeep. If the dealer found one with it I would take it. I might add it if doing a special order. I defiantly wouldn't if I was going to upgrade to 35" tires and need to regear the axels. I would then add LSD or lockers at the same time as the new gearing install. If you feel like your slipping and spinning often without the LSD option, you can add a "Detroit Eaton Truetrac" LSD in the rear axle later. With the install cost it would be more expensive. It would give you good performance for the life of the jeep, were the factory option fades in effectiveness. Of course with more money and time just about everything on a jeep can be upgraded to something better.

This video below may help your understanding. When talking about trac-lok he says it works independent. Basically trac-lok works in the differential (in the center of the axle). BLD works using the breaks. Together they both multiply the effectiveness of each other.
http://youtu.be/yxHQeO-Y7GU

panthermark 06-17-2013 04:54 PM

BLD is an extended version of traction control. Don't confuse traction control with BLD.

BLD is not a replacment for limited slip....far from it.

BLD is great if you have one wheel in the air while climbing over a rock at 2mph.

However, BLD is NOT a limited slip. You want LSD when you are trying to make a turn into fast moving traffic on a slick road. Or trying to make a turn while going uphill on a slick road.

panthermark 06-17-2013 05:09 PM

This is a great article from a Chrysler engineer on the Chrysler website about BLD:
Chrysler Blog - Jeep Brake Traction Control Explained

February 11, 2008 7:00 AM
Loren Trotter is an engineer in Active Chassis Control Systems, as well as a die-hard Jeep® enthusiast and avid off-roader. Some of the shots below come courtesy of his trips to Moab, demonstrating the capable off-road system he's speaking about below.

Jeep® has long been the leader in four wheel drive systems and in 2005 introduced Electronic Limited Slip Differentials (ELSDs) and brake based traction control tuned specifically for off road driving on the Grand Cherokee. Since then, traction control has been added to the Commander, Liberty and Wrangler.

From reading several articles written about these vehicles, I feel that there may be some misconceptions about Jeep brake based traction control and even some misconceptions about ELSDs.

There are several parts to traction control and they are enabled or disabled depending on the driving mode the driver has chosen. When the vehicle is in 4wd high range and the Electronic Stability Control System (ESC) is on, traction control uses the brakes and engine torque control to limit how fast the driven wheels can spin relative to the actual speed of the vehicle.
This helps provide maximum traction along with stability. In addition to controlling how fast the driven wheels are spinning, there is a feature of brake traction control that controls wheel speed side to side across a driven axle and is called BLD, or "brake lock differential."
BLD does not care how fast the wheels are turning, just that they are turning at the same speed. It provides improved traction capability similar to a locking differential.

There are times when controlling how fast the wheels spin may not be desirable for driving conditions such as mud or deep snow. In this case, pushing the ESC button once (in 4wd high range) will disable the brake and engine portions of traction control that control how fast the wheels are allowed to spin but leaves BLD on. In 4wd low range, only BLD functions so there is no need to turn off traction control.



Just to get this out of the way; from the Jeep perspective, BLD is not a substitute for locking differentials. It is a means to greatly expand the off road capability of vehicles that were not purchased with or do not offer locking differentials.
A Jeep vehicle with BLD will negotiate almost any obstacle or driving situation that a similar vehicle with locking differential will. BLD does require a change in driving style and more torque to negotiate the obstacle.
We have worked very hard to make the BLD on Jeep vehicles work well off-road and reduce, and in most cases eliminate, the complaints about brake based traction control.

This time I will write about BLD but I can write a future blog about ELSDs if there is enough interest from all of your readers out there.



To understand what BLD does, it is necessary to understand how and open differential works. Open differentials have many attributes that make them the best choice for most vehicles. They are simple, proven and reliable requiring only an occasional fluid change to last for many years.
For rear wheel drive vehicles, they also provide a stability advantage over locking differentials (such as a Detroit Locker) that are always engaged.
The main drawback to an open differential is that torque is always split 50/50. Each wheel receives 50% of the input torque (ignoring losses). This means that if one wheel is in the air and it takes almost no torque, say 10 ft-lb., to turn the wheel, the other wheel will only receive 10 ft-lb. of torque. If 10 ft-lb. is not enough to move the vehicle in the desired direction, it will not move.
Using the vehicle’s wheel speed sensors, BLD knows when one wheel on a driven axle is turning and the other is not. BLD will apply brake pressure to the wheel that is turning.
The applied brake pressure increases the torque required to turn the wheel in the air and this allows more torque to go to the wheel on the ground. The one drawback is that the input torque must be twice as much as required to negotiate the obstacle because of the brake application. The required extra torque is not usually a problem especially in 4wd low range.

In order to get the most out of BLD, the driver must adapt their driving style to characteristics of BLD. For example, when in a situation where one or more wheels loose traction and the vehicle will not continue in the desired direction, the driver should carefully and smoothly apply the throttle to allow more torque to go the wheels with traction as the brake(s) are applied.
BLD looks at individual driven axles and tries to keep the wheels turning at the same speed. BLD does not try to limit how fast the wheels turn, just that they turn at the same speed.

Some may fear that using the brakes for traction control (BLD) can cause them to overheat. The electronic brake control system uses a model to estimate the brake temperatures not only from use during traction control but also braking. If the model temperature reaches a level that could possibly affect brake performance, the brake traction control is shut off automatically.


Since BLD is only trying to keep both wheels on a driven axle turning at the same speed and not control overall wheel speed, the actual energy input to the brakes is relatively low. In all of the testing done at Moab, I have never seen brake temperatures reach a point where the thermal model turned off traction control.

In my opinion, brake based traction control has received undeserved criticism in the press and from off-road enthusiasts. Brake based traction control on Jeep (and Dodge) vehicles performs well off-road and is a useful feature for customers. Magazines should not lump all brake based traction control together.
Jeep engineers, along with partners Continental Automotive, Bosch and TRW, have worked very hard to make Jeep brake based traction control a system that performs extremely well.
Many diehard Jeep enthusiasts agree that brake traction control can work well off-road once they have seen it and tried it. Many trips to Moab and a number of other off-road areas have proven how well it works. How many other stock vehicles can do the Zuki Shuffle without locking differentials or would even try to climb where eagles dare to tread?

------------------------------------

So basically, BLD is a form of ELSD pretending to be a locker via traction control. At low speeds/off road, and can work in conjuction with limited slip. But if you are stepping on the gas, and you don't want your power zapped by the brakes kicking in, youd don't want BLD/traction control coming in.

LSD will help get you traction (moving) BEFORE electronic traction control kicks in.

LoCo Jeep 06-17-2013 05:58 PM

Great article panthermark.

It appears to me that the article is a glowing endorsement for BLD. It just furthers my belief that I don't need and I made the right decision not to get LSD.

LoCo Jeep 06-17-2013 06:12 PM

Quote:

The only thing I question is if you grasp that BLD is no 100% effective. It's an aid and not a cure.
Rooster I grasp what BLD is and it's effectiveness. I understand it is only an aid and not a cure all.

All I was doing was comparing BLD with LSD in that if my Jeep already had BLD it was redundant for me to have LSD.

For my needs BLD is fine. No need for LSD or lockers.

MTH 06-17-2013 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3870437)
It appears to me that the article is a glowing endorsement for BLD. It just furthers my belief that I don't need and I made the right decision not to get LSD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoCo Jeep (Post 3870482)
For my needs BLD is fine. No need for LSD or lockers.

To be clear, in no circumstance is BLD better than BLD + LSD.

Additionally, many of the benefits of an LSD are apparent in onroad driving, not just offroading as is the case with lockers.

Further, the factory LSD is one of the very few "good deals" you can get on a wrangler. It's something like a $375 option. That's less than you'd pay in parts alone (plus hours of labor) to install an LSD aftermarket, and is a tiny fraction of what you're spending on the jeep itself.

I'd guess that at least 75% of the membership on this forum would recommend that, all else being equal, you should always order the factory LSD. It's inexpensive and can only help.

Candidly, your responses in this thread seem very much to lean toward you having an opinion before you arrived ("I made the right choice to not order the LSD option."), and seeking predominantly to confirm that opinion.

Other than saving a few hundred dollars on a multi-thousand dollar purchase, there's not much objective basis for the conclusion you've reached. Certainly not in what's been presented here.

But, cest-la-vie. :dance:

LoCo Jeep 06-18-2013 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTH (Post 3871717)
To be clear, in no circumstance is BLD better than BLD + LSD.

Additionally, many of the benefits of an LSD are apparent in onroad driving, not just offroading as is the case with lockers.

Further, the factory LSD is one of the very few "good deals" you can get on a wrangler. It's something like a $375 option. That's less than you'd pay in parts alone (plus hours of labor) to install an LSD aftermarket, and is a tiny fraction of what you're spending on the jeep itself.

I'd guess that at least 75% of the membership on this forum would recommend that, all else being equal, you should always order the factory LSD. It's inexpensive and can only help.

Candidly, your responses in this thread seem very much to lean toward you having an opinion before you arrived ("I made the right choice to not order the LSD option."), and seeking predominantly to confirm that opinion.

Other than saving a few hundred dollars on a multi-thousand dollar purchase, there's not much objective basis for the conclusion you've reached. Certainly not in what's been presented here.

But, cest-la-vie. :dance:

Actually that isn't true. I started this thread to get some answers and Rooster76 was kind enough to provide them. Thanks Rooster.

After my purchase I started to get inquisitive about how the 4WD actually works after I couldn't answer questions about my Jeep. When I bought the Jeep I didn't even know it came with BLD, didn't even know there was such a thing called BLD. Some educated shopper I am!

After doing some research and talking to Rooster it still seems to me that BLD and LSD basically do the same thing. Again to me it still seems a bit redundant but I agree that probably both BLD and LSD together is better than BLD by itself, never said otherwise......but how much better is still up for debate and something I don't know.

Knowing what I know now I would go as far to say that LSD probably would be a better option than BLD if I could only have one or the other. My point is that if the vehicle comes standard with BLD I just don't see LSD as a must have. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I see it.

I have just come to the conclusion (not even knowing what I was buying in the first place) for my purposes BLD is fine for my driving habits and can sleep well at night not having LSD.

If you think otherwise and that you need LSD that's fine with me. I guess that's why LSD is an option and not standard equipment.

DC Dennis 06-18-2013 09:31 AM

BLD will help you get out of the small ditch or started up the icy hill
LSD will get get started and all the way up the hill


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