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-   -   suspension edumacation (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/suspension-edumacation-250052.html)

5150Rubicon 06-17-2013 08:56 PM

suspension edumacation
 
I want to learn about and understand Jeep (JKUR) suspension (stock). For example, What limits the "droop" of a tire? What limits how far a tire an be "stuffed" up? Etc etc. I'd like to have a solid understanding of this...before learning about how a lift impacts the geometry, etc...

Is there a link, or an article, or something that you have found that covers "Jeep Suspension 101"?

Thanks so much.

tab22092 06-17-2013 09:10 PM

Alright ill try to help you with the little bit of experience i have lol a major inhibitor for droop on a stock rig are the sway bar links. Ive maxed them out once or twice with some easy wheeling. Disconnects solve this. Once disconnected you basically have as much travel as the shocks will allow. Or the springs fall out! Lol as far as compression goes its really the bump stops that will halt the upward travel of the wheel. Or your wheel stuffing into your fender lol terrible terrible noise.

5150Rubicon 06-17-2013 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tab22092 (Post 3871182)
Alright ill try to help you with the little bit of experience i have lol a major inhibitor for droop on a stock rig are the sway bar links. Ive maxed them out once or twice with some easy wheeling. Disconnects solve this. Once disconnected you basically have as much travel as the shocks will allow. Or the springs fall out! Lol as far as compression goes its really the bump stops that will halt the upward travel of the wheel. Or your wheel stuffing into your fender lol terrible terrible noise.

thanks. so, at "full droop" the entire weight of the tire/axle, etc is being 'held' by the shock? If I understand you, the shock (at full extension) would be the thing holding the axle from dropping any further. For compression, is there bump stops on my stock jkur? Thanks so much. I love this stuff and really want to learn (so I can start modding with some knowledge)

tab22092 06-17-2013 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5150Rubicon (Post 3871232)

thanks. so, at "full droop" the entire weight of the tire/axle, etc is being 'held' by the shock? If I understand you, the shock (at full extension) would be the thing holding the axle from dropping any further. For compression, is there bump stops on my stock jkur? Thanks so much. I love this stuff and really want to learn (so I can start modding with some knowledge)

Somewhat. Some weight is distributed to the control arms and such. But the length of the shock is really the inhibiting factor. This is why you see some guys running longer shocks than their lift recommends. And yes there are bump stops. They are the whitish rubber things inside your spring on the top. Oh and your welcome! I love helping when i can the same way people have helped me on here. Really a great site!

5150Rubicon 06-17-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tab22092 (Post 3871254)
Somewhat. Some weight is distributed to the control arms and such. But the length of the shock is really the inhibiting factor. This is why you see some guys running longer shocks than their lift recommends. And yes there are bump stops. They are the whitish rubber things inside your spring on the top. Oh and your welcome! I love helping when i can the same way people have helped me on here. Really a great site!

so, using the front axle for an example. As we increase the distance between the body of the jeep and the axle (with a 2.5" coil lift for example)...because of the control arm (which stays the same length), wouldn't that mean that the axle would have to 'move' back towards the rear of the vehicle? Is that the reason for the "correction brackets" from AEV? Btw - i'm hoping to also know enough someday to help others...

tab22092 06-17-2013 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5150Rubicon (Post 3871294)

so, using the front axle for an example. As we increase the distance between the body of the jeep and the axle (with a 2.5" coil lift for example)...because of the control arm (which stays the same length), wouldn't that mean that the axle would have to 'move' back towards the rear of the vehicle? Is that the reason for the "correction brackets" from AEV? Btw - i'm hoping to also know enough someday to help others...

Exactly! Lol increasing lift will cause the tires to move towards each other. Thats the exact reason for the correction brackets. Are you sure your new at this? Lol

5150Rubicon 06-17-2013 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tab22092 (Post 3871339)
Exactly! Lol increasing lift will cause the tires to move towards each other. Thats the exact reason for the correction brackets. Are you sure your new at this? Lol

ha! nah, but i was under my jkur today just looking around. i guess i'm just wondering how even a "mild" lift (2.5) can be done without any other mods (as all the companies advertise).

for example (again, i kinda just know enough to be dangerous from looking at my vehicle)...even with the steering. I dont know the names of the parts. But, the linkage(s) that come from the steering box that eventually connect right behind the front tire...that angle would need to change as the spring/coil gets bigger (lift) too wouldn't it? How does that not change the position of the wheels while standing still, let alone through suspension travel?

Maybe the point is...its not enough (with a 2.5" lift) to impact on road performance?

Hokieneer 06-17-2013 10:36 PM

Hey I thought this might help I feel like I learned a lot from it. it is mostly about metal cloaks lift but their engineer really laid out a lot of information about suspensions

MetalCloak Suspension Build - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum

I hope it helps some, it is a long thread though.

5150Rubicon 06-17-2013 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokieneer (Post 3871483)
Hey I thought this might help I feel like I learned a lot from it. it is mostly about metal cloaks lift but their engineer really laid out a lot of information about suspensions

MetalCloak Suspension Build - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum

I hope it helps some, it is a long thread though.

thank you...i'll definitely check out the link

Rooster76 06-18-2013 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5150Rubicon (Post 3871450)

ha! nah, but i was under my jkur today just looking around. i guess i'm just wondering how even a "mild" lift (2.5) can be done without any other mods (as all the companies advertise).

for example (again, i kinda just know enough to be dangerous from looking at my vehicle)...even with the steering. I dont know the names of the parts. But, the linkage(s) that come from the steering box that eventually connect right behind the front tire...that angle would need to change as the spring/coil gets bigger (lift) too wouldn't it? How does that not change the position of the wheels while standing still, let alone through suspension travel?

Maybe the point is...its not enough (with a 2.5" lift) to impact on road performance?

I've been trying to figure it all out lately too.

With a spacer/bb lift (putting a puck on top of you stock coils) you are less likely to need to make corrections than a lift that replaces your coils. As you can probably guess a coil lift is better for flexing/off-road.

The name of the part your naming sounds like the lower control arm (LCA). I have some labeled parts I would add but it's hard on my phone. Check out the link below.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/jk-...ed-245491.html

The trackbar centers the axles. it can be corrected with brackets or ideally with an adjustable one. Rough County says a 2.5" bb only takes the axles .25" out of alignment. At least that is there argument for not including a bracket to correct the issue.

The LCA can be adjusted with brackets. Like one AEV sells for $100. That kit lowers your ground clearance but works good. A better option is adjustable replacements. They will extend your wheel base (front axle to rear axle distance) back to a reasonable distance. It will help adjust the caster ( tilt of the wheels parts front to back). Without the correction it can feel flighty.

Remmy18 06-18-2013 06:16 AM

Here's my $.02. As you increase the distance between the frame and axles, your changing the geometry in the suspension and steering. The higher you go, the more out of wack things become. For example purposes, lets say you just slap in 4" lift coils only. Besides the obvious brake line extensions needed, what you've done is pulled the axles closer to the center of the vehicle bc the control arms are now too short. You've also pulled your front axle to driver side and your rear axle to passenger bc the track bars are too short. (Easy way to spot a crappy big lift if u look at the rear tire and its sitting forward of center in the wheel well). You've also changed your castor of the front axle and pinion angle of the rear. You've also changed the angle from your drag link that connects your steering from the box to the passenger side wheel (drag link flip kit addresses this). You've also changed your driveshaft angles down to the axles. That's why things get so expensive the higher you go. Different companies either don't address these issues, address some or address most of them in different ways. For example, AEV uses correction brackets for castor while others use longer control arms (front lowers and rear uppers). Also some companies use brackets for the TB while others use new adj TBs to center the front axle from side to side. different issues become more severe the higher you go and more expensive to correct. Lastly, add big heavy tires and you'll see these issues amplified as your stressing the out of wack stuff even more with added weight.

My thumbs ache :) again, just my $.02 and hope that helps.


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