Jeep Wrangler Forum

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-   -   To the craftsmen & artisans at Toledo. (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/to-the-craftsmen-and-artisans-at-toledo-250193.html)

Espada 06-18-2013 03:05 PM

To the craftsmen & artisans at Toledo.
 
You suck. No, really, you do.

After 3200 miles I have:

A) A water leak on the passenger side door
B) It appears the A/C drains into the driver side foot well. Awesome!
C) A panel popped loose in the center consol. At least it's not bad....
D) The steering wheel is cocked slightly, annoyingly, to the left

I can't pin it on the assembly line, but the shifter rattles as well.

My 10A went through an extra two weeks for that BS "quality" inspection too. Good thing that the wait was worth it :rolleyes: Hey, Chrysler, instead of QA-ing the Jeeps, why don't you QA the Gibbons putting them together. Y'all are lucky the damned thing is so fun to drive and look at.

TOK 06-18-2013 03:26 PM

I think if another company made a serious run at the Wrangler (not FJ style), Chrysler would really feel it. I'm amazed nobody has tried it. Jeep is iconic, but the market is huge.

woansleftpeg 06-18-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOK (Post 3873970)
I think if another company made a serious run at the Wrangler (not FJ style), Chrysler would really feel it. I'm amazed nobody has tried it. Jeep is iconic, but the market is huge.

I read this article today while I was sitting in the waiting room at the dentist, and I was intrigued to see the line "Wrangler product planners consider the Ford Mustang a direct competitor". I guess that makes a lot of sense.

Up Hill Bill 06-18-2013 03:37 PM

I love my wrangler, warts and all. I thank the folks in Trenton for the work they do - they make a beautiful product, just a few quirks and kinks for the customer/dealer to work out. It's more than worth it for me! :dance:

live_slow 06-18-2013 03:51 PM

Here's some things those workers didn't do:

- design of the part
- determine materials
- determine acceptable tolerances or other engineering decisions that maximize profit
- set production schedule
- set working conditions

Maybe, just maybe a guy or gal had a "bad day" and made a mistake. If so, the company needs to make it right.

But I also know that every part of every Jeep and every movement of every worker is designed for maxium return on the dollar.

If I want hand-crafted, cost-no-object vehicles, "zero-defect" I know where to go. I just can't pay the cost of entry.

Aeschylus 06-18-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill (Post 3874007)
I love my wrangler, warts and all. I thank the folks in Trenton for the work they do - they make a beautiful product, just a few quirks and kinks for the customer/dealer to work out.

Other than passing laws for the State of New Jersey, I do not think Trenton has manufactured anything since the 1970s :D

TOK 06-18-2013 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by live_slow (Post 3874045)
If I want hand-crafted, cost-no-object vehicles, "zero-defect" I know where to go. I just can't pay the cost of entry.

Your points are very valid about engineering or parts sourcing issues being totally separate from assembly/fit and finish issues. Stuff like the 2012 head problems bear that out.

As far as the sentence I quoted, I think you can buy economy cars for under 20 grand that have way better fit, finish and overall build quality.

Espada 06-18-2013 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by live_slow (Post 3874045)
Here's some things those workers didn't do:

- design of the part
- determine materials
- determine acceptable tolerances or other engineering decisions that maximize profit
- set production schedule
- set working conditions

Maybe, just maybe a guy or gal had a "bad day" and made a mistake. If so, the company needs to make it right.

But I also know that every part of every Jeep and every movement of every worker is designed for maxium return on the dollar.

If I want hand-crafted, cost-no-object vehicles, "zero-defect" I know where to go. I just can't pay the cost of entry.

I'll give you 38,133 reasons why you are making poor excuses for a vehicle that should have had all the kinks ironed out years ago. Especially when it comes to assembly, which is what my original post is about.

The Wrangler is a great vehicle, it's inherent goodness comes through in its character and driving experience. This is backed up by the legions of owners. That said, it seems to be constantly let down by the horribleness assembly staff in Toledo. Why is it that my '09 Acura TL, which was built in Ohio, never had a rattle in the 62,000 miles I've owned it? Are the assembly-line people in Merrysville Ohio better than the people in Toledo Ohio? Judging by the product they put out, on the surface, the answer seems to be: yes. I think that is not a fair thing to say, but I do not know enough about the standards with which Chrysler and Honda are building to. I do know this: it's not a Jeep thing, it's a quality thing, and we deserve better (waaaaay better) for what these Wranglers cost.

JeeperJake 06-18-2013 04:45 PM

re: " I do know this: it's not a Jeep thing, it's a quality thing, and we deserve better (waaaaay better) for what these Wranglers cost."

kudos for the clarity in your post here OP.....you're making statements that the Management/marketing/UAW bosses should hear.

I join with your comment the assembly line could benefit from better attention to those details.

Also I have to issue my own little statement: Congratulations to the crew, as they DID get mine RIGHT.

56000+ miles on my 08 Sahara and I remain very pleased with the product.

Up Hill Bill 06-18-2013 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeschylus (Post 3874058)
Other than passing laws for the State of New Jersey, I do not think Trenton has manufactured anything since the 1970s :D

Duh.... Toledo/Trenton.... Begin with the same letter, close enough for me... :redface:

kjeeper10 06-18-2013 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by up hill bill (Post 3874007)
i love my wrangler, warts and all. I thank the folks in TOLEDO for the work they do - they make a beautiful product, just a few quirks and kinks for the customer/dealer to work out. It's more than worth it for me! :dance:

x100

rijowysock 06-18-2013 05:28 PM

this is why they have bumper to bumper warranty's on vehicles.

sounds like a loose drain tube, a bad seal, and your alignment could be off for many reasons... specifically something loose on steering if the car drives straight but wheel is off.

Aeschylus 06-18-2013 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill (Post 3874266)
Duh.... Toledo/Trenton.... Begin with the same letter, close enough for me... :redface:

I knew what you meant; just yanking the chain :cool:

RoadiJeff 06-18-2013 07:13 PM

Maybe the OP's Wrangler was built on a Friday. :rofl:

Decades ago I worked on a Chrysler assembly line. Did it for 10 years. It was boring work but I got good and fast enough at what I did to have enough time before the next vehicle arrived at my station to study for a better job - a few seconds at a time.

Although it was boring work I started the day as if each vehicle coming down the line was mine and I was going to do my part as perfectly as I could. I can't say that everyone who worked there had the same approach but I just tried to concentrate on my little contribution to the big picture.

TOK 06-18-2013 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rijowysock (Post 3874346)
this is why they have bumper to bumper warranty's on vehicles.

sounds like a loose drain tube, a bad seal, and your alignment could be off for many reasons... specifically something loose on steering if the car drives straight but wheel is off.

You think differently from me. I don't want to need my warranty for all that stuff. A warranty doesn't give Chrysler a pass for poor quality. They are the only one of the Big 3 still haunted by this.

My Jeep has been fine, and I love it, but I am more worried about it than any new vehicle I have ever purchased.

JTPhoto JK 06-18-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeperJake (Post 3874215)
Also I have to issue my own little statement: Congratulations to the crew, as they DID get mine RIGHT.

56000+ miles on my 08 Sahara and I remain very pleased with the product.

Lol X2 Kudos to Toledo ... 138,000 on my 08 and as happy with it now as the day I bought it. I even past up on a 12 Rubi.

2five22 06-18-2013 08:45 PM

My father in law was dumbfounded when I bought a Jeep for his daughter to drive. He was stunned when a few months later when I bought another one for myself.

He drove a Willys MB around in Germany for the US Army. He thoroughly hated it. When he reminded me of this and then asked me why I bought one to use as a daily driver, I told him that as a Marine rifleman, I had only my two issue 'Black Cadillacs' to get me down the road.

He got the point! :doh:

If I wanted a worry free and blandtastic ride, I would have bought a Toyota. The Wrangler has a soul, the Toyota doesn't.

JKWrangler2012 06-18-2013 08:58 PM

I doubt that Acura TL has ever seen the unpaved road.. I question if your wrangler even has? I bring up the thought because the two vehicles are worlds apart, meeting much different market demands.

It SUX to send so much money on a product, only for it not to be perfect and have to return to incompetent dealerships to rectify the wrong. TRUST me, I know.

That said, your issues are minor and completely rectifiable, if at only the cost of time and inconvenience.

Life sucks. Not always, but for certain at times. You may find yourself ill prepared to face real stress challenges.

Abnormal-JK 06-18-2013 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOK (Post 3874761)
My Jeep has been fine, and I love it, but I am more worried about it than any new vehicle I have ever purchased.

Why?? Take it out in the mud and rocks, drive it, figure out what it needs for your style and bolt it on! Learn how to wrench on it, and what you can't do let the dealer handle.

It's made to drive damn near anywhere.

And what 2five22 said!!

Brewbek 06-18-2013 09:18 PM

I got rid of a GM product to get my 13JKU. The GM was a POS. Engine light 24/7. Hell I spent $1500 just to get the engine light out long enough to trade the POS.

That all said they all have problems, I only have 2200 on my Jeep today and hope it stays ok, but I'm like that with everything I buy.

It ain't just the Toledo err Trenton assembly line, it's a total sum of the parts.

Had a 98 TJ and replaced the starter wiring harness once under warranty, no other problems 125k miles. :dance:

Up Hill Bill 06-18-2013 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewbek (Post 3875358)
...
It ain't just the Toledo err Trenton assembly line, it's a total sum of the parts.

Jeez, I'll never live that down... :doh:


:rofl::rofl::rofl:




Hey, maybe it's time for the patriots run the scoundrels out of Trenton again, like they did in the winter of 1776! Or, was that Toledo? I just don't know anymore...... sad ...

FXnut 06-18-2013 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadiJeff (Post 3874746)
Maybe the OP's Wrangler was built on a Friday. :rofl:

Decades ago I worked on a Chrysler assembly line. Did it for 10 years. It was boring work but I got good and fast enough at what I did to have enough time before the next vehicle arrived at my station to study for a better job - a few seconds at a time.

Although it was boring work I started the day as if each vehicle coming down the line was mine and I was going to do my part as perfectly as I could. I can't say that everyone who worked there had the same approach but I just tried to concentrate on my little contribution to the big picture.

X2

I worked for 11 years in a factory building Jeep frames(among other manufacturers) and yes there were certain workers working in the plant that shouldn't have been, but there were also LOTS of issues with management and quality control, and this is probably the reason that plant is now closed.

zerinS4 06-18-2013 09:59 PM

If it makes you feel any better, my 10A Rubi was built on April Fool's day, which also happened to be a Monday. Double whammy. So far no issues, but that fact still kind of haunts me :)

JTE 06-18-2013 10:42 PM

The Pentastar engines are manufactured in Trenton.

Up Hill Bill 06-18-2013 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE (Post 3875690)
The Pentastar engines are manufactured in Trenton.

Yeap, Trenton, Michigan.... That must be what I was thinking, yea, that's the ticket..... :redface:

dreinecke 06-18-2013 11:14 PM

Sad to hear this from the OP. My 2012 has ZERO leaks, head problems, or other issues at 14k. The 2013 at 3500 has ZERO leaks, or other issues. Love them both!

HouseofCards 06-18-2013 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOK (Post 3874761)

You think differently from me. I don't want to need my warranty for all that stuff. A warranty doesn't give Chrysler a pass for poor quality. They are the only one of the Big 3 still haunted by this.

My Jeep has been fine, and I love it, but I am more worried about it than any new vehicle I have ever purchased.

Only one left? My sister in law drives an '04 equinox that she cant keep on the road because it overheats, had the motor pulled twice and it still happens. I was shopping before i decided on a jeep and mentioned this problem to a certified chevrolet DEALER and he told me "They (GM) never got the equinox's right. They are still bringing in '10 models that have to have engines replaced.....but this truck here, the 1500s never had a problem etc etc etc" point is they all have issues and you have to pick your poison. If you wanted a pretty car with shiny trinkets you should have bought a Buick. Try driving that across a mountain and see how many bells and whistles are left hanging if you get to the other side. Thats what warranties are for if it is broke, take it back and get it fixed, one thing i look for is a good warranty. Otherwise you can do what some others have done on here and remove the carpet line the floors and pull the drain plugs

RKracing 06-18-2013 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreinecke (Post 3875808)
Sad to hear this from the OP. My 2012 has ZERO leaks, head problems, or other issues at 14k. The 2013 at 3500 has ZERO leaks, or other issues. Love them both!

You are very lucky. We have had 5 Jeeps in 3 years, all leaked so-so to alot.
One of them they did buy back, Tranny problems, both 13's have water pump problems and so on and so on....:nonono: It is so sad that it is funny.

Lowerumble 06-19-2013 12:25 AM

Well, if you think a new vehicle needing a few tweaks is something that plagues only jeep then you are dead wrong. My last couple of Chevys were nearly 20k more than my jeep and I know the name of the chevy mechanics pretty well... Those visits ranged from having rear windows replaced to trannies and transfer cases. Go get an alignment, which you should always do with any new vehicle and have A. and B. addressed at your dealer...

JTPhoto JK 06-19-2013 12:43 AM

Funny some of the comments. We have 3 Jeeps and no issues with any of them. I talked to a tech a few weeks ago that bought a Wrangler for his wife because the only time they see them in the shop is for routine maintenance.


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