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-   -   5 Speed vs 6 speed (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/5-speed-vs-6-speed-251377.html)

Verf 06-24-2013 07:48 AM

5 Speed vs 6 speed
 
Keep in mind, I'm new...:D

So I read a recent thread talking about the best year of the TJ. Its a win-win. You own a Jeep, its the best year cause its yours!

To not take over a thread, a good point was brought up about the trannys. I have the 6 speed and recently had to ask if most used 2nd gear to start from stops on asphalt, as 1st gear is low and short. Now, coming from fast performance cars, more gears are better (unless all you do is quarter miles)

So is one actually better than the other or is it personal preference? I'll be honest, while I searched for a similar topic, I didn't look at the final gear ratios, tho I know they are different for each model.

Butch

tallzdatank 06-24-2013 08:39 AM

daily driving if you drive it well the 6 speed will be more efficient, as you can use the rev band more efficiently.

PStov98TJ 06-24-2013 09:13 AM

This thread will tell you all the stock gear ratios for each transmission ever used in TJ's.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/st...ations-452871/

UnlimitedRubicon 06-24-2013 10:00 AM

I use first gear because I drive a Wrangler not a sports car.

Rubicondon53 06-24-2013 10:11 AM

The more gears one has in any vehicle, if used properly, will increase the efficiency of the motor, resulting in better fuel mileage, less wear and tear , etc etc.... I also have read many posts on here where jeep drivers are skipping first gear. They are begging for clutch problems later on.. All standard transmissioned vehicles are designed to engage the transmission and move the vehicle forward or backward at idle rpms.. Taking off in a gear that requires one to throttle up a bit while slipping the clutch out increases wear and tear on all components, especially the clutch.. ;)

jgorm 06-24-2013 01:45 PM

I've had both. I like the 6 speed better. It is more "notchy" and is more resistant to go into gear if the shaft speed is not close to the gear you want (as if you coast down for a long time with the clutch in and then pick a gear). I skip 1st gear unless I'm starting off going up hill, in slow traffic, or pulling a trailer. It starts off in 2nd just fine. 2nd gear on my jeep is still lower than the final ratio of 1st gear on my mustang. 33's with the the 5 speed and 3.27s was much worse than 35's with 4.10s and the 6 speed. I love having a real OD gear. I dont normally use it when towing, but it's great when I want to rip 75-80mph down the freeway.

adkjoe 06-24-2013 02:19 PM

I have a 6 speed and with 33" tires and living in Vermont (all mountains and hills) I rarely get to use 6th gear. If I'm going downhill with a tail wind I can cruise in 6th otherwise it's useless. I don't skip first gear either.

PStov98TJ 06-24-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adkjoe (Post 3894622)
I have a 6 speed and with 33" tires and living in Vermont (all mountains and hills) I rarely get to use 6th gear. If I'm going downhill with a tail wind I can cruise in 6th otherwise it's useless. I don't skip first gear either.

Have you regeared it yet?

adkjoe 06-24-2013 03:43 PM

^ no that's why it's useless lol

PStov98TJ 06-24-2013 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adkjoe (Post 3894953)
^ no that's why it's useless lol

Well then that's not a very good representation of that trans. Because you've forced it into under powering the engine with those 33's. Just saying.

jgorm 06-24-2013 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adkjoe (Post 3894622)
If I'm going downhill with a tail wind I can cruise in 6th otherwise it's useless. I don't skip first gear either.

wow. with 35s and 4.10s I can accelerate in 6th from about 50-55 mph (not fast acceleration, but enough that I'm too lazy to donwnshift). If you have 3.27s then I have roughly 30% more gear, and ~5% bigger tires. I'm in socal with plenty of hills and mountains.

adkjoe 06-24-2013 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PStov98TJ (Post 3894976)

Well then that's not a very good representation of that trans. Because you've forced it into under powering the engine with those 33's. Just saying.

Your right...I also forgot to mention its a 2.4l with 3.73 gears :) that's my problem. I love the 6 speed I just need to regear it. Oh yea and get a bigger engine...

sinbob 06-24-2013 06:25 PM

I have the 6sp and only use 1st when wheelin or pulling my tailer when it is loaded for camping/fishing. It is my daily driver and I start out in 2nd 3rd, 4th and then to 6th for city driving. Only time I use 5th is for towing up a hill. 35's with 4.88's and a 4.0

Malfunction 06-25-2013 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbob (Post 3895403)
I have the 6sp and only use 1st when wheelin or pulling my tailer when it is loaded for camping/fishing. It is my daily driver and I start out in 2nd 3rd, 4th and then to 6th for city driving. Only time I use 5th is for towing up a hill. 35's with 4.88's and a 4.0


I have that same setup, if the road is flat or down hill I skip 3rd gear also. 2-4-6 Having a three speed manual is fun, lol.

ddjeeper 06-26-2013 12:21 AM

I have a six speed and my reverse grinds like crazy. I talked to a couple mechanics and they said its normal for 6speed TJs.... Idk if that's true. Other than the reverse I love my 6speed.

viperx6x9x 06-26-2013 12:09 PM

If i had my choice, i would always take the one with more gears. Yes, more shifting involved. But as stated, better control over keeping it in the powerband, so better performance and mileage as a result. Sadly 2002 was the newest i could afford at the time so only a 5 speed or an automatic available, but i have not regretted getting the 5 speed one bit.

Granted manufacturers are using better engine management technology these days as well, but both automatics and manuals have more gears than they used say 10 years ago. They pretty much have to with new EPA regulations for minimum mpg's.

I don't think i would get a manual with any more gears though. I love manuals but I think 6 gears is about the most i have the patience to constantly shift through.

idiot magnet 06-26-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddjeeper (Post 3900141)
I have a six speed and my reverse grinds like crazy. I talked to a couple mechanics and they said its normal for 6speed TJs.... Idk if that's true. Other than the reverse I love my 6speed.

If you have the 05 then yes the reverse grinding is very common and Mopar sells a kit to fix the issue. The kit price keeps going up and up. The 06's have a stronger internal mechanism and better gears/syncros which is included in the kit. I know about this too well, since I rebuilt mine because it would grind and never get into reverse.

Malfunction 06-26-2013 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddjeeper (Post 3900141)
I have a six speed and my reverse grinds like crazy. I talked to a couple mechanics and they said its normal for 6speed TJs.... Idk if that's true. Other than the reverse I love my 6speed.

Mine does the same thing, it will feel like it goes in to reverse but as soon as I let out the clutch it pops out and grinds. Putting it into first gear before reverse helps a little. What works most of the time is pulling it into reverse (mine only goes halfway to the gear) keeping my hand on the shifter and pulling back then slowly let the clutch out, once I do that it drops into reverse the rest of the way. Mine grinds shifts between just about every gear!

ddjeeper 06-26-2013 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idiot magnet (Post 3901827)

If you have the 05 then yes the reverse grinding is very common and Mopar sells a kit to fix the issue. The kit price keeps going up and up. The 06's have a stronger internal mechanism and better gears/syncros which is included in the kit. I know about this too well, since I rebuilt mine because it would grind and never get into reverse.

I have the 06. Do you know where I can buy this kit or do you have a link you can send me by chance?

viperx6x9x 06-26-2013 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idiot magnet (Post 3901827)
If you have the 05 then yes the reverse grinding is very common and Mopar sells a kit to fix the issue. The kit price keeps going up and up. The 06's have a stronger internal mechanism and better gears/syncros which is included in the kit. I know about this too well, since I rebuilt mine because it would grind and never get into reverse.

Is this issue with the shifter, or the transmission itself? If it's in the shifter you could always just replace it with one of those B&M short throw jobs or something similar. I was thinking about finding one for my 5 speed.

idiot magnet 06-26-2013 03:42 PM

The shifter is inside the transmission and that is the problem. Do a search for the NSG370 reverse rebuild. It's been a couple of years since I did the rebuild and I have more info on one of my threads on Jeepforum if I'm allowed to say that here. The 5 speed is a completely different animal than the 6 speed.
Are you having shifting issues in just 2nd, 4th, 6th and Reverse? Your console could be in the way if you have a lift or body lift. Trim your console or the steel around the shifter tunnel or bend your shifter handle.
The reason of the issue in the first place was owners would miss 6th gear and put it in reverse which meant grinding and bending the shifter mechanism. Picture one of those old style clunky knee braces then multiply that by several knees on the same leg with each pivot having all that metal. It just wasn't strong enough to handle the force of the misshift. That's the way I saw it when I opened it up and did the repair.
It's NOT an easy repair without the proper tools and base to hold everything in place. Don't let the little 6mm bearings shoot out or you'll be hunting them down forever.

We should consider starting a new topic since this seems to be hijacking the OP question.

viperx6x9x 06-26-2013 04:35 PM

yeah i apologize for that, didn't mean to sidetrack the thread.

Just out of curiosity since i haven't driven a 6 speed. Is reverse right and up, or right and down. If it's down I would probably miss that shift too and probably dislike that shift pattern.

Malfunction 06-26-2013 04:54 PM

It's right and down, I really wish it was right and up as I have missed that shift before as well.

UnlimitedRubicon 06-26-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malfunction (Post 3902288)
It's right and down, I really wish it was right and up as I have missed that shift before as well.


The problem with that is people would be rolling at a relatively high speed and trying to shift into "7th". The end result would be ... NOT GOOD.

Malfunction 06-26-2013 08:22 PM

Yeah, my transmission is pretty worn out and I can't feel the shift gates at all. You have to know where the gears are to use all of them in my jeep, lol.

ob269 06-26-2013 08:50 PM

It would be nice if it was over past first.. That's how my old BMW was..

Malfunction 06-26-2013 09:01 PM

^This. My old work truck was like that. I liked my g35, had to push down on the shifter to get it to go into reverse.

NJO 06-26-2013 09:34 PM

I have the 6 speed with 33's and 4.88's. I wouldnt have it any other way. And no I dont use 2nd to start off from a stop.

Rubicondon53 06-27-2013 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJO (Post 3903213)
I have the 6 speed with 33's and 4.88's. I wouldnt have it any other way. And no I dont use 2nd to start off from a stop.

Nice set up, 4:88s are in my future . Many years ago ( at 14 ) I learned on a three speed on the tree. It taught me to shift gently, that old 58 F100 was not a race car. TJs aren't race cars either. There are so many things wrong with skip shifting , I could go on and on, but I'll not, I'll only suggest that those in the habit of doing it, do a bit of research. It's all about mechanical physics, functionality and design... If one operates any machine beyond what it is designed to do, it will fail.. Just my opinion, based upon fact... ;)

Verf 06-27-2013 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJO (Post 3903213)
I have the 6 speed with 33's and 4.88's. I wouldnt have it any other way. And no I dont use 2nd to start off from a stop.

Since I'm the OP, gonna kinda hijack my thread a bit. Briefly explain the gearing. My (lack of) understanding is the lower the number, the better on gas i.e. 3.73's will get better mileage vs 4.10

However, I read a lot on here where 4.56 or 4.88 gears are great on our Jeeps. My guess is my thinking is way off and I've been thinking wrong for years. I'm a motor guy and really don't know squat about driveline stuff.

Thanks,

Butch


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