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-   -   Fuel leak running off right rear bumper rail (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f218/fuel-leak-running-off-right-rear-bumper-rail-251530.html)

HFC3 06-24-2013 07:51 PM

Fuel leak running off right rear bumper rail
 
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I discovered today that an occasional raw fuel smell I've had may be from a fuel tank leak, not an engine compartment fuel line leak. When I turn left at any speed, with a full tank, the fuel runs along the top of the rear bumper rail (along red line photo), and runs off between the right rear white lite and the bumper rail end. There is no leak when moving in a straight line or when turning right. No fuel is leaking anywhere else (that I can see).

I looked at a photo of a fuel tank, and I think the fuel sending unit hole is on the upper passenger side of the tank, but for the life of me I can't figure out what would make the fuel run along the bumper rail, and not off the side of the tank!

I initially though it was probably a bad, or loose, fuel line, but I don't understand why it wouldn't just run down the side of the tank. Additionally, I would have expected any fuel lines to/from the sending unit would go toward the front of the vehicle, meaning the leak shouldn't be anywhere near the bumper rail. Or, if the leak was by the fill hole (left rear), why it wouldn't be leaking on the drivers side.

I know this is kind of premature - I have to run it for a while to use up the full tank I just put in (damn it), and all will be revealed when I finally drop the tank, but ...

Any ideas on what I should expect? Or, any suggestions/tricks on how to safely/quickly remove the tank itself?

Thanks in advance.
Harry

bubbadah 06-24-2013 09:30 PM

I recently dropped my tank to do a fuel pump, other than dealing with gas it was an easy job. I have a 91. The fuel pump and sending unit were all together and were in the middle top of the tank. There was a hose that lead to the fuel filter ( I think ) on the drivers side along with two hoses on top of the tank. There are also the filler and vent hoses, both needed replacing. All in all, six places you could be leaking from If something came loose.

Randy

kik 06-24-2013 09:43 PM

Probably from the rollover valve.

bubbadah 06-24-2013 09:52 PM

Or that

BCDonny 06-24-2013 10:38 PM

I agree the roll over valve mine leaked in the same place changed it and all was fine

jokerchief462 06-24-2013 10:44 PM

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You can see it if you remove the dirt shield in the right rear corner of the tub. Two lines one in and one out and it is held in place by a clamp. May need to be replaced or just replace the rubber lines. See the picture

HFC3 06-24-2013 11:00 PM

I'm expecting to need fuel lines - and, since I'll have to drop the tank anyway, I'll replace whatever lines there are anyway while I'm there.

From what I can see a rollover check valve (never heard of it, but it makes sense), it may be on the correct (passenger) side. Depending on where that mounts, that could also explain why it's running down the rail, and not the side of the tank.

From what I can find, they say to replace the Roll Over Valve and the Liquid Check Valve at the same time. Don't they both do the same thing -prevent fuel leakage during a roll over?

And, why is the LCV such an elaborate device? What can't it just be a one-way fuel "proof" plastic check valve? Any idea where to find them? Nothing on BING or eBay.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Harry

HFC3 06-24-2013 11:04 PM

Oops! Posted my last as the other two posted. Thanks for the photo's - and, if it is the ROV, then maybe I don't have to remove the tank at all.

Joker, is that the ROV or LCV?

jokerchief462 06-24-2013 11:17 PM

It is a rollover valve I got mine from the dealer because I didn't know any better but Google is your friend. So I got the assembly and all good bought all the hose from local parts house. Make sure you use the good Fuel Injection hose. Not a bad job just make sure to hook up feed and return to the steel lines right. I got mine backwards it didn't take long to figure that one out.

HFC3 06-25-2013 01:52 AM

Thanks! Maybe this means it will be a simple job!

0III0forlife 06-25-2013 07:23 AM

If its not the roll over valve(by the way there are 2, both mounted in the front 2 corners of the tank). Then my guess is that the tank strap wore a hole into the top of the tank, common if its a poly tank and the rubber strap has slid to the side.

As well as replacing all the lines, plan on getting a new set of tank straps. They are next to impossible to get out intact. And when I did mine, I replaced the 4 bolts that hold the front of the tank skid to the cross member, with stainless bolts, and a ton of never seize.

HFC3 06-25-2013 09:47 AM

I see the two valves in the diagram (attached). Can anyone explain what the difference between the ROV and the LCV is? They both seem to be meant to keep fuel from draining out of the tank during an overturn, but I can't find any explanation as to why one isn't enough.

Anyway, thanks again for all the suggestions. It's on the list of TTD for later this week. Hopefully, it's just a bad line - I've found several ROV's, but no LCV's.

HFC3 06-27-2013 05:28 PM

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Thanks for all the suggestions - it saved removing tank entirely! It turns out that the roll over valve is not only shot, but disintegrating (see photo #3)!

Oddly enough, it wasn't even mounted to anything - and I can't find any bracket (or broken band) where it would have been mounted. It was resting on top of the plastic splash guard. I'm wondering how it could possibly function as a roll over valve it it's position is not only already sideways, but moves. As you can see in the photo's, there isn't even a band on the valve where a missing bracket/band should have been.

For those who may also encounter this, you don't even have to remove the wheel to get to it (at least, not on an 88 S). Just pull back the plastic splash guard below the passenger tail light and behind the wheel. Somewhere in there (as I said, mine was laying loose on the bottom) is the ROV. I couldn't find the Liquid Check Valve in there anywhere - it's either mounted somewhere else, or missing on mine.

Now I just have to find an ROV.

Thanks again for your help!

HFC3 06-27-2013 06:00 PM

Just found a link on JeepsUnlimited (Replacement Rollover Valve Found! - JeepsUnlimited.com Forums) that shows a "real" tank setup - which clearly shows the ROV and the LCV. Where was this when I looked last week, I ask? Arg!

Anyway, I included it here in case it helps someone else. In my case, it makes me wonder why my ROV was on the rear side of that panel, where this images shows both valves on the front side (over the passenger rear tire).

Drat it - I'll have to remove the tire anyway. Maybe that's where the missing bracket is :( (and the other hose).

Cheers

HFC3 07-05-2013 07:02 PM

OK, I got the replacement ROV (the Delorean one mentioned in the link above) and tried to install it today. the fuel line size into the unit is 2 sizes smaller (1/4 instead of 3/3) that the hose that connects to the metal fuel line from the tank. Arg!

I have to talk to a mechanic next week about a work around, but he won't me in until Monday.

In the mean time, will plugging the roll over tube cause problems? I know it's safer with it in place, and it will be (hopefully) next week. My concern is will it cause a vacuum lock because air can't get into the tank through the blocked tube? It would be hell if the stupid thing choked mid-hill from that!

Thanks!

PS: Happy 4th!

RednekYJ 07-05-2013 07:08 PM

Loop a short hose between the inlet outlet on the tank. Temporarily it will be fine. Pressure will build in the tank on hot days. Don't be scared if air rushes out when you open the gas cap....

HFC3 07-05-2013 07:13 PM

I'll try - the problem is that the size of the line "from" the tank is 3/8, and the size of the line to the charcoal (I'm assuming) canister is 1/4. I can't find a join that will connect the two sizes.

Since the line to the canister is vacuum (as opposed to fuel) line, it's a little stretchable. Maybe it will stretch over the larger metal fuel tube. Fuel line won't do that since it's reinforced (tried, even though I knew it wouldn't).

Thanks!

HFC3 08-13-2013 11:32 AM

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Sorry for the delay in updating this. I'm sure you've all been checking your email every hour in anticipation! :rofl2:

I got the new ROV (references in other posts) from Delorean Motor Company. It has a plastic nipple on the back which I snipped off - I assume on a real Delorean it secures it in place. On the Wrangler, however, while it will fit in the holes already in the well wall, the ROV would be at the same height as the tank. I don't think is where it should be since the ORM ROB was almost a foot higher (secured to top of metal hose).

The ROV IN nipple (from tank) was smaller than the metal tube, so I needed two different size hoses and a converter piece in between. As recommended on other links, I used Fuel Injection line (not vacuum) for these, and found a 90deg brass converter - I couldn't find a plastic converter for these sizes. Research said you needed Fuel Injection hose, so I did. I have a Fuel Injected 2.5, though, so carb setups may not need to.

I used a 3-4 inch piece of each hose (I forgot to get hose sizes - I'll try to update later), the larger one from the metal line from the tank to the converter, the smaller one from the converter to the new ROV.

I only used enough hose to allow for a secure connection on both ends, but not enough to allow for much flexing. I wanted to keep the new ROV valve from flopping around too much, and didn't have the supplies to tools to drill holes to ZIP tie anything (that's on the future To Do list). So, essentially, the new ROV is perched on top of the metal line from the tank just as the OEM ROV was.

The 90deg converter actually worked out well. The original ROV is secured to the top of the metal line from the tank and stuck straight up with the return line coming out the side. On the new setup, the 90deg converter for the incoming hoses put the new ROV parallel to the ground, as it has to be.

The OEM return hose fits right onto the new ROV out nipple.

I used finger twist hose clamps (the smallest possible - 1/4" I think) to secure all the hoses. This avoided the need to get a wrench/screw driver up there.

See photo for final setup.

Thanks for everyone's help.
:Thanx:

HFC3 08-14-2013 11:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hosts to new ROV:
1. From metal line from tank to converter brass angle LARGE nipple - 3/8 Fuel Injection line
2. From converter brass angle SMALL nipple to new ROV - Size not stamped on line, but 1 smaller than the large hose.


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