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-   -   Snorkel debate (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/snorkel-debate-263530.html)

Tj888 08-17-2013 08:26 PM

Snorkel debate
 
I've been wanting a snorkel for along time I know a lot of people don't like them but I think they look cool, I've token care of all the breathers and vents, and have put dieletric grease on every electrical connection I came across but I'm still not convinced about snorkels in the rain.
Can someone with a snorkel assure me that their ok in the rain my biggest fear is to be on the highway during a storm and get water in the engine.

Thank you

horsedad58 08-17-2013 08:56 PM

A properly designed snorkel will have a box or chamber in line ( usually where the air pipe enters the fender ) . That box or chamber is shaped to slow the air flow enough to allow the water to fall out or it includes a baffle that knocks or strains most air born water out. It also usually has a small hole in the bottom to allow accumulated water to drain out.

The problem is you really can't design an effective water baffle for ALL air velocities. So.... some water might get through the baffle... Having said that, your air filter should take care of any mist that makes it that far.

So short answer, stick with a reputable designed system by a maker that's been in the biz for a while and you'll probably be OK. If they had a bad design, they won't stay around for long.

Sounds like you started on water sealing your jeep, but just be aware that water will find its way in eventually. The vacuum power of a hot part like an axle, transfer case or even a transmission being suddenly dunked in cold muddy water is huge... Yes, even with a vent hose, the pull can be enough to pull water in past seals... So get in the habit of checking, draining and refilling immersed gear regularly. Its the best protection you can give your jeep.

Hope this helps..

Tj888 08-17-2013 09:16 PM

Yes it does and I appreciate your time and answer. I think ARB makes a good design so lets go with them

1jeeplvr 08-17-2013 09:19 PM

Are you really in water that deep?? I think for a lot of people its a look at me kind of thing.Like a huge cowl hood on an engine/car that doesent need it.

Tj888 08-17-2013 09:27 PM

No I'm not in water that deep but like I said like the look and it's good insurance in my opinion

horsedad58 08-17-2013 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1jeeplvr (Post 4091047)
Are you really in water that deep?? I think for a lot of people its a look at me kind of thing.Like a huge cowl hood on an engine/car that doesent need it.

I don't know about tj888 but I have had some "almost" floodings in relatively shallow water, say 24 to 30 inches deep. The mechanical fan on my TJ throws water right up under the hood almost aimed at my airbox's air horn. Luckily, my air filter stopped my engine from taking a slug of water but a soaked filter doesn't let much air thru either.

I will admit that having the air horn intake at the top of the window is a bit extreme for most of us, but the general idea of a snorkel isn't bad if you like to dunk your jeep... Besides, it just looks cool, even if you don't do the swamp buggy thing down at the sippy-hole...

In the near term, I'm looking at relocation my stock air boxes intake point well away from where my fan tosses water... Hmmm, some pvc pipe and a few fernco couplings and maybe get it back nearer the battery. I don't see big swaths of mud under the hood there...

Tj888 08-17-2013 10:03 PM

True horsedad58

AFS-LEE 08-17-2013 11:05 PM

I have arb drive to work daily 60 to 100 miles a day I get rained on freeway I used to checked filter and have not found water inside yet

horsedad58 08-18-2013 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFS-LEE (Post 4091429)
I have arb drive to work daily 60 to 100 miles a day I get rained on freeway I used to checked filter and have not found water inside yet

ARB units are, IMO, one of the best and most well designed units. So a dry filter with an ARB doesn't surprise me.

Having said that, don't forget how much air is flowing thru the airbox at freeway speeds. A 4.0 l jeep engine pulls around 200 cuft of air per min at highway speeds. So any minor amounts of water that might have made it thru would be dried out in mere minutes. (Note: water vapor is basically OK going through an engine, liquid water.... not so much...other than extremely small amounts...)

brs256 08-18-2013 02:26 PM

I had a knockoff arb on my old jeep ... it was a daily driver ... no problems at all

Jared66 08-18-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horsedad58 (Post 4090960)
A properly designed snorkel will have a box or chamber in line ( usually where the air pipe enters the fender ) . That box or chamber is shaped to slow the air flow enough to allow the water to fall out or it includes a baffle that knocks or strains most air born water out. It also usually has a small hole in the bottom to allow accumulated water to drain out.

The problem is you really can't design an effective water baffle for ALL air velocities. So.... some water might get through the baffle... Having said that, your air filter should take care of any mist that makes it that far.

So short answer, stick with a reputable designed system by a maker that's been in the biz for a while and you'll probably be OK. If they had a bad design, they won't stay around for long.

Sounds like you started on water sealing your jeep, but just be aware that water will find its way in eventually. The vacuum power of a hot part like an axle, transfer case or even a transmission being suddenly dunked in cold muddy water is huge... Yes, even with a vent hose, the pull can be enough to pull water in past seals... So get in the habit of checking, draining and refilling immersed gear regularly. Its the best protection you can give your jeep.

Hope this helps..





"It also usually has a small hole in the bottom to allow accumulated water to drain out. "

- the air box should not have a hole in it since that defeats the purpose of the air intake being so high, keeping water from entering your intake in high water scenarios ... The head / opening at the top of the snorkel is adjustable on most snorkel systems. If t rains. Face it backwards.

jp2611 08-18-2013 03:13 PM

I am now thinking about one....yes before I thought they were "What the cool kids had"...and than I thought about it and it became uh yeah I don't really need one of those....and than we started to go to better and better places to wheel.....and yeah it may be in the next round of mods....I know the guys I wheel with at Bundy in MI are really starting to give them some serious consideration.....but it has been a lot wetter this year.

No one has lost a motor but it has been close a couple times...and that's scary!!!

horsedad58 08-18-2013 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared66 (Post 4093059)

"It also usually has a small hole in the bottom to allow accumulated water to drain out. "

- the air box should not have a hole in it since that defeats the purpose of the air intake being so high, keeping water from entering your intake in high water scenarios ... The head / opening at the top of the snorkel is adjustable on most snorkel systems. If t rains. Face it backwards.

That's what you might think but take a look and I think you will be surprised... The drain hole is usually toward the back where forward motion of the vehicle will tend to create a draw ( think opening a drain plug on the stern of a boat while underway...) that will allow accumulated water out. Better ones also include a soft pinched hose or a flapper that floats. Either type of check valve will let water out but block water from entering. Water can accumulate inside while the vehicle is in deep water but check valves will open as soon as the water level outside the box is lower than inside.

I do want to point out that we are not talking gallons of water here. We are talking about the rain that can be driven into the snorkel at highway speeds. You are correct that on some models you can reverse the inlet but on the highway, that defeats any ram-air effect and actually makes the engine work harder to pull air against the low pressure zone behind an obstruction. Most folks don't stop and reverse the snorkel head in the rain. Most reputable manufacturers know this and have some sort of system or configuration to remove any rain or splash that makes it into the snorkel. ARB even advertises the fact, but they don't explain it in their advertising...

krisbman 08-18-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horsedad58 (Post 4093103)

That's what you might think but take a look and I think you will be surprised... The drain hole is usually toward the back where forward motion of the vehicle will tend to create a draw ( think opening a drain plug on the stern of a boat while underway...) that will allow accumulated water out. Better ones also include a soft pinched hose or a flapper that floats. Either type of check valve will let water out but block water from entering. Water can accumulate inside while the vehicle is in deep water but check valves will open as soon as the water level outside the box is lower than inside.

I do want to point out that we are not talking gallons of water here. We are talking about the rain that can be driven into the snorkel at highway speeds. You are correct that on some models you can reverse the inlet but on the highway, that defeats any ram-air effect and actually makes the engine work harder to pull air against the low pressure zone behind an obstruction. Most folks don't stop and reverse the snorkel head in the rain. Most reputable manufacturers know this and have some sort of system or configuration to remove any rain or splash that makes it into the snorkel. ARB even advertises the fact, but they don't explain it in their advertising...

I dont think turning it backwards would affect the so called performance gain. Look at the old chevelles and camaros with cowl induction. The air going over creates a vacuum and with the engine being a large sucking device it will pull in all the air it can handle quite easily. And then theres the benefit of the rain thing. Just like driving a topless jeep in a rain storm. Ya dont get wet till ya stop, lol. Just my .02.

jp2611 08-18-2013 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisbman (Post 4093715)
I dont think turning it backwards would affect the so called performance gain. Look at the old chevelles and camaros with cowl induction. The air going over creates a vacuum and with the engine being a large sucking device it will pull in all the air it can handle quite easily. And then theres the benefit of the rain thing. Just like driving a topless jeep in a rain storm. Ya dont get wet till ya stop, lol. Just my .02.

Actually the early '80 Camaros had an issue with the "cowl induction hood" it didn't work...remember reading an article about that "back in the day"...same principal that keeps ya dry when driving with top off like you also mentioned.......Ram Air like in the Olds cutlass 442 now that worked but in the winter you were s'posed to "slightly block" the intakes bellow the front bumpers....circa 1970........but with a Jeep and the old, "it doesn't matter, 4.0 can only flow so much air anyway"....it shouldn't matter if it was pulling air from inside the cab by the floor heater.....as long as it is not pulling WATER!!! :)

horsedad58 08-18-2013 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisbman (Post 4093715)

I dont think turning it backwards would affect the so called performance gain. Look at the old chevelles and camaros with cowl induction. The air going over creates a vacuum and with the engine being a large sucking device it will pull in all the air it can handle quite easily. And then theres the benefit of the rain thing. Just like driving a topless jeep in a rain storm. Ya dont get wet till ya stop, lol. Just my .02.

I wasn't really trying to say that a snorkel added any HP.. In a snorkel, the ram effect really only helped to offset the losses from all the added piping... As others have noted, there's really no big diff for the jeep 6. Cowl Induction is a whole different animal. Cowl induction was supposed to pull air from the high pressure area in front of the windshield just above the hood. In theory, it worked. The windshield slows the air, deflecting it over and around the roof. Slowed air is higher pressure air.. Most cowl induction hoods were for looks and they rarely had the necessary ducting to be really effective. Most snorkels stick up at or above the windshield so as such did not have a high pressure bubble to pull from...

Now.... let me end with this simple note; all this is textbook theory... Intake forward or aft, the jeep will run just fine...

1jeeplvr 08-18-2013 10:06 PM

Ive also been on rides where someone with a snorkel gets it ripped off.I heard someone on another ride call it a dorkel,lol.That was funny I thought :rofl:

techflork 08-18-2013 10:09 PM

this thread would be more exciting with pictures. . . :)

cbush1885 08-18-2013 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1jeeplvr (Post 4094420)
Ive also been on rides where someone with a snorkel gets it ripped off.I heard someone on another ride call it a dorkel,lol.That was funny I thought :rofl:


dorkel haha that is pretty good.
im not a huge fan of them, im also not a huge fan of dunking my jeep, i worry more about getting the snorkel hung up one some tree limbs or something.


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