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-   -   To buy, or not to buy. That is the question... (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/to-buy-or-not-to-buy-that-is-the-question-264766.html)

VooDoo7 08-23-2013 08:35 AM

To buy, or not to buy. That is the question...
 
So I've had my heart set on getting a Jeep for a while now. I've finally settled on getting a 2013/2014 Sahara Unlimited. I'm gonna be doing a lot of driving today to test drive some around southern WI/northern IL.

But the more I read threads on here, the more worried I get. It seems like every other thread is about issues/problems people are having with their newer Jeeps. I think if you're spending $35,000 on a new vehicle, you should have no worries (for the most part).

Help ease my fears!! :)

Mody n Domy 08-23-2013 08:45 AM

People in general voice there problems more often. I have had my 12 Sport for over a year with no problems. You need to look at all the threads of people that wouldn't trade there Jeeps for any other vehicle. Then make your decision as to what your needs are.

NFRs2000NYC 08-23-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VooDoo7 (Post 4111491)
So I've had my heart set on getting a Jeep for a while now. I've finally settled on getting a 2013/2014 Sahara Unlimited. I'm gonna be doing a lot of driving today to test drive some around southern WI/northern IL.

But the more I read threads on here, the more worried I get. It seems like every other thread is about issues/problems people are having with their newer Jeeps. I think if you're spending $35,000 on a new vehicle, you should have no worries (for the most part).

Help ease my fears!! :)

No one is having problems. 95% of problems are user related, ie, problems WE caused, be it after a lift, big tires, whatever. The rest are just people that have slight issues, but remember, you are only going to hear the negatives. People are not going to join a forum saying "Hey guys, I bought a brand new jeep wrangler, and everything is perfectly fine!" Mine is a 2012, with 22000 miles, and I never had a SINGLE issue.

Having said that, a word of advice. I have a 2012 Sahara. Love it. Trading it in for a 2014 Rubicon. Why? Because for a little bit extra now, you will save thousands later. Do yourself a favor, and get the rubicon. Don't make the same mistake I did.

VooDoo7 08-23-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC (Post 4111547)
No one is having problems. 95% of problems are user related, ie, problems WE caused, be it after a lift, big tires, whatever.

Having said that, a word of advice. I have a 2012 Sahara. Love it. Trading it in for a 2014 Rubicon. Why? Because for a little bit extra now, you will save thousands later. Do yourself a favor, and get the rubicon. Don't make the same mistake I did.

What does the Rubi have that the Sahara doesn't? Different suspension and rear ratio?

Scott2373 08-23-2013 08:50 AM

If people are happy, they'll tell 1 person. If they're unhappy they'll tell 10 people. Or post it here.

foley0416 08-23-2013 08:52 AM

Do it. I got a 12 sport and have had it coming up on 2 years with no real problems. Knock on wood. Other then the bank account not being large enough to go all out on it. You won't regret it. Only thing I would trade it on is stripped down rubi but then I'm just looking for axles and gears and that will be enough for now.

VooDoo7 08-23-2013 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott2373 (Post 4111560)
If people are happy, they'll tell 1 person. If they're unhappy they'll tell 10 people. Or post it here.

Haha, you're probably right about that. Just like for sports forums. Your team loses, there are tons more posts than when they win.

Regarding the sound systems in these Jeeps, many say they're terrible. Are they as bad as people say?

VooDoo7 08-23-2013 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foley0416 (Post 4111570)
Do it. I got a 12 sport and have had it coming up on 2 years with no real problems. Knock on wood. Other then the bank account not being large enough to go all out on it. You won't regret it. Only thing I would trade it on is stripped down rubi but then I'm just looking for axles and gears and that will be enough for now.

I gess I haven't really looked into a Rubi is because the only real off-roading I'd be doing is for hunting/camping. And this will be my daily driver.

ltsrapcon 08-23-2013 08:56 AM

I LOVE my 12 JKU, no problems.

NFRs2000NYC 08-23-2013 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VooDoo7 (Post 4111555)
What does the Rubi have that the Sahara doesn't? Different suspension and rear ratio?

When I bought my Sahara, a Rubi would have cost me about $1800 more. I got my sahara with 3.21 gears.

As I went more and more offroad I needed to upgrade things....

1) The rubi comes with 4.10 gears. Doing this to my Sahara in NJ is about $1500 in parts and labor.

2) The rubicon comes with a Dana 44 axle up front, which is about another $2000 to do aftermarket.

3) The rubicon comes with a 4:1 transfercase (allowing for better crawling)...another $2000 to do aftermarket.

4) The rubicon comes with front and rear lockers. Another $2500 to do aftermarket.

5) The rubicon comes with a front electronic sway bar disconnect, an incredibly useful feature, which costs another $2000 to do aftermarket (although nobody does it.)

As you can see, you get a lot of kit for not much more money. When I got my Sahara, I never expected to offroad and thought "it's enough." Then you want to upgrade your tires, take a trip to Moab, etc etc, and you realize what a giant mistake you have made. Honestly, I'd get the Rubicon over a Sahara SOLELY because of the 4.10 gears. In my case, it would have been worth it, but sadly, I didn't discover this forum in time. Now Im on a mission, to stop people from making my mistake. IMHO, the Sahara is a model that shouldn't even exist. If you are planning on building a monster rig, go with a sport, otherwise, go with a Rubi. You forget the $1800 difference in 2 months (especially if you are making payments) but you don't forget that you don't have all the Rubicon goodies. Live and learn, and then get a Rubicon.

foley0416 08-23-2013 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VooDoo7 (Post 4111578)
I gess I haven't really looked into a Rubi is because the only real off-roading I'd be doing is for hunting/camping. And this will be my daily driver.

I got mine for the same reason. Rubi would be nice, but mine will go where I want. Swapped on rubi takeoffs and suspension on mine a couple weeks after getting it. Found them cheap off someone upgrading. Just look for deals they're out there. I daily drive mine as well

NFRs2000NYC 08-23-2013 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VooDoo7 (Post 4111578)
I gess I haven't really looked into a Rubi is because the only real off-roading I'd be doing is for hunting/camping. And this will be my daily driver.

Im not saying you need to spend money on a Rubi. If you just want a wrangler with no leather, etc etc, get a SportX. However, IF you are considering a sahara, my advice is that you spend a tiny bit more money, and get a rubicon. I am NOT saying that everyone shopping for a wrangler should buy a Rubicon, just people shopping for Saharas. :D

foley0416 08-23-2013 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC (Post 4111601)

Im not saying you need to spend money on a Rubi. If you just want a wrangler with no leather, etc etc, get a SportX. However, IF you are considering a sahara, my advice is that you spend a tiny bit more money, and get a rubicon. I am NOT saying that everyone shopping for a wrangler should buy a Rubicon, just people shopping for Saharas. :D

Agreed. I'm partial to my base inside with the roll down windows, no power and nothing fancy. But out of the gate with 4.10s, lockers etc. Would have been a lot easier.

narphenal 08-23-2013 09:06 AM

The only problems I have had with my 2013 is a skid plate that I had to retorque the bolt on(there was a bad rattling/ticking sound; almost crapped myself because I thought it was the "ticking head" until I got under it), my beef with the Uconmect system, and finding enough money to buy the things I want for it.

They are fantastic vehicles, the main problem I see is people getting one then being dissapointed because it isn't like a luxurious SUV; which it isn't, it's a jeep.

They are fantastic vehicles with more capabilities than a standard SUV, and much more fun to drive(especially with the top off!), great for kids(my 3 year old nephew loves it), with an extremely welcoming and courteous community(you'll notice it when you just drive around town, and get a wave everytime you see another jeep).

As long as you know what you are getting into, you'll love it. For anything you don't like, you can bet there is an aftermarket replacement for it. There is always the chance you'll get a lemon, but that's with any car.

Greg_2012_JKU 08-23-2013 09:11 AM

I have a 12' Sahara Unlimited with 27k + miles and NO ISSUES with mine at all. I have no leaks or squeaks and absolutely LOVE it! I will ALWAYS have a Wrangler in my household!!

302 08-23-2013 09:18 AM

Not to sound like a d-bag but if you're asking what the differences are you probably don't need it. Just get a nice sport and be happy. Most of my offroad adventures are rutted out trails and the sport does just fine. :thumb:

NFRs2000NYC 08-23-2013 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 (Post 4111677)
Not to sound like a d-bag but if you're asking what the differences are you probably don't need it. Just get a nice sport and be happy. Most of my offroad adventures are rutted out trails and the sport does just fine. :thumb:

While this might be true now (it was for me at the time) things change. This way, he will have everything already on the rig. Better to have it and not need it. Like I said, the gears alone are worth the rubicon premium. Very often first time jeep buyers don't realize what they need until they actually get a jeep and start enjoying it more and more. Im a perfect example.

ahsumtoy 08-23-2013 10:11 AM

Sound System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by VooDoo7 (Post 4111578)
I gess I haven't really looked into a Rubi is because the only real off-roading I'd be doing is for hunting/camping. And this will be my daily driver.

I agree about the Rubi, if you are buying the Sahara, buy the Rubi for a little more. Otherwise buy a Sport X. As far as the sound system, IMHO it sucks. I replaced all 7 speakers, put in a 5-chan amp, a better sub and now it rocks. Some others might say the lights sucks on Jeeps. You'll have to be the judge on this. I say they do and need to be replaced. However, with all that being said, a Jeep rocks (no pun intended).

TrueNorth 08-23-2013 10:15 AM

From what I hear Chryselr sold over 150,000 JK's last year alone. With that many vehicles on the road there are bound to be a few material or manufactruing defects.

I bought a Jk in 2007 when they first came out. Had a few minor problems here and there, dealer was always willing to fix it without a hassle. Loner car if they needed it overnight.

As for the Rubi vs. Sahara. Your call.
If your gonna build it up for wheeling and put in lockers, skid plates,rockers, etc Rubi makes sense. If you only use 4WD a couple times a year, maybe not.

I'll most likely get a 2013 sport and put my own lockers and lift in like I did to my X.
The exta $8,000+ for a Rubicon buys a lot of mods.

NFRs2000NYC 08-23-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueNorth (Post 4111888)
From what I hear Chryselr sold over 150,000 JK's last year alone. With that many vehicles on the road there are bound to be a few material or manufactruing defects.

I bought a Jk in 2007 when they first came out. Had a few minor problems here and there, dealer was always willing to fix it without a hassle. Loner car if they needed it overnight.

As for the Rubi vs. Sahara. Your call.
If your gonna build it up for wheeling and put in lockers, skid plates,rockers, etc Rubi makes sense. If you only use 4WD a couple times a year, maybe not.

I'll most likely get a 2013 sport and put my own lockers and lift in like I did to my X.
The exta $8,000+ for a Rubicon buys a lot of mods.

But for that $8000 extra, you STILL won't be able to "build" a rubicon. From my math (unless you can do all your own labor) it will cost about 12-15K to bring a non rubi to a rubi level of mods. Granted, you would have even better components, but you get the point.

302 08-23-2013 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC (Post 4111818)
While this might be true now (it was for me at the time) things change. This way, he will have everything already on the rig. Better to have it and not need it. Like I said, the gears alone are worth the rubicon premium. Very often first time jeep buyers don't realize what they need until they actually get a jeep and start enjoying it more and more. Im a perfect example.

The only thing I didn't realize coming from the car world to the jeep world is parts. I can get any parts I want for the mustang because people are always swapping out premium aftermarket parts. Yea, they are used but most of the time the used stuff is practically brand new. With jeeps people tend to keep parts in until they break...

Are there any online jeep salvage websites that sell parts to the public? That could probably be a decent route to get take off parts cheap. Part outs are always great for good deals.

BManz 08-23-2013 12:13 PM

If you want it then don't worry about it. My 2012 JK is my first Wrangler (2dr Sport-S, hard top, auto) and as a personal work vehicle it sees everything from highway cruising to the craters of Chicago and then on to the ditches and fields of Dekalb and Kane County day in and day out. Damn straight reliable and I trust my life in it.

On the weekend the hard top and doors come off and it replaces my Harley for the open-air feel. I've got more miles on my 2012 JK than I do on my 2011 Grand Cherokee and the Grand is frequently doing long trips to WI and MI, if that tells you anything. I've been on only a few dedicated off road runs and had no trouble keeping up with Rubis, but then driver skill counts for a lot too.

The best case I can make for any vehicle is: would I buy another? Unequivocally yes I'd buy another Jeep Wrangler when I wear this one out (if they don't screw up the design) even if it's still the same JK platform. I love both my Jeeps equally for different reasons.

panthermark 08-23-2013 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC (Post 4111601)
Im not saying you need to spend money on a Rubi. If you just want a wrangler with no leather, etc etc, get a SportX. However, IF you are considering a sahara, my advice is that you spend a tiny bit more money, and get a rubicon. I am NOT saying that everyone shopping for a wrangler should buy a Rubicon, just people shopping for Saharas. :D

I disagree...100%

But it all depends on how one will use the vehicle.

The Rubi was scratched out early on my list because I knew I would not be doing much off-roading or modding.

I'd be on pavement 99.9% of the time, and light (and dry) dirt/gravel/grass trails the 0.1% of the time. I'll spend far more time driving on slick roads in winter and in the rain, than climbing over rocks.

Under those conditions (which is probably closer to reality for most JK's...as forums tend to be off-road biased), AT tires and a limited slip differential are simply better suited for the job than MT tires and open diff/lockers.

A Rubicon with the exact same options as my Sahara (with the Sahara having LSD while the Rubi has 3.73's and painted fenders) cost about $2500 more (MSRP). As nice as the Rubi is, I could not justify spending more money on features I would not use, while at the same time giving up features that would be better suited for my use.

Again, it all depends on how you are going to use the vehicle. The problem is that most of us can't see the future. You caught the off-road bug, so buying a Sahara ended up being a bad choice for you. I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. Outside of an $80 light bar (with no lights) I'm basically stock...and that is pretty much how I plan to stay....so a Sahara makes perfect sense for me.

Plus, it isn't like a Sahara (or Sport) is some type of front wheel drive 4 banger SUV.

JeepBugs7 08-23-2013 01:45 PM

Every car that I've bought for my wife, myself or my kid since the arrival of these type of blogs, have had complaints about quality etc. Knock on wood, I've yet to have any problems, including my 2013 Sahara.

I love the Sahara. It's my DD and I have no intention of taking it off road. One, I don't want to scratch up something I paid a lot of money for and 2, if something happened off road, I'd be up a creek without a paddle as I can't even change my own oil :hide: (I played sports my whole life and never had a car until I was 21 - so I never even saw under a hood until then). So if you intend to use it like me and you like the color matched fenders and the silver piece on the bumpers, I'd highly recommend the Sahara. I also recommend getting the premium top as it is real nice

JeepHerz 08-23-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 (Post 4111963)
The only thing I didn't realize coming from the car world to the jeep world is parts. I can get any parts I want for the mustang because people are always swapping out premium aftermarket parts. Yea, they are used but most of the time the used stuff is practically brand new. With jeeps people tend to keep parts in until they break...

Are there any online jeep salvage websites that sell parts to the public? That could probably be a decent route to get take off parts cheap. Part outs are always great for good deals.

???? Have you checked Craigslist or the local page on this or any other forum? I've found the exact opposite- I can find stock parts anytime. Have a shelf in my warehouse of stock parts no one will take. Not to mention the huge aftermarket market. Maybe it depends on the region?

Lynskey 08-23-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panthermark (Post 4112349)
I disagree...100%

But it all depends on how one will use the vehicle.

The Rubi was scratched out early on my list because I knew I would not be doing much off-roading or modding.

I'd be on pavement 99.9% of the time, and light (and dry) dirt/gravel/grass trails the 0.1% of the time. I'll spend far more time driving on slick roads in winter and in the rain, than climbing over rocks.

Under those conditions (which is probably closer to reality for most JK's...as forums tend to be off-road biased), AT tires and a limited slip differential are simply better suited for the job than MT tires and open diff/lockers.

A Rubicon with the exact same options as my Sahara (with the Sahara having LSD while the Rubi has 3.73's and painted fenders) cost about $2500 more (MSRP). As nice as the Rubi is, I could not justify spending more money on features I would not use, while at the same time giving up features that would be better suited for my use.

Again, it all depends on how you are going to use the vehicle. The problem is that most of us can't see the future. You caught the off-road bug, so buying a Sahara ended up being a bad choice for you. I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum. Outside of an $80 light bar (with no lights) I'm basically stock...and that is pretty much how I plan to stay....so a Sahara makes perfect sense for me.

Plus, it isn't like a Sahara (or Sport) is some type of front wheel drive 4 banger SUV.

Exact same thing for me. I have zero need or inclination to buy a Rubi. I also wanted all of the additional features that are on the Sahara including matching top and fenders. Wanted the power everything, heated seats, remote start etc. So for my choice and 99.9 % certainty that I would never be crawling, the Sahara was/is the ideal purchase.

JeepHerz 08-23-2013 02:10 PM

I agree with NRFs AND Panther. I bought a Jeep JK Sport with nothing on it. Planned to do desert and dirt off-roading. Simple lift with good shocks was my plan. Now I rock crawl. Oops. We've added (ourselves) a locker, changed gears, added a Rubi-E disco, and I'd kill for the crawl ratio. If I had to pay for install I'd be way upside down vs a Rubi. As it is I have better parts, the ones I want, and I am ok- but not the case for most people that would have to pay labor.
What you should buy really depends on how you use it- like Panther said. My best suggestion is find a local Jeep club. Pay someone if you have to (LOL) - but go along with someone on a few trails. If you're bored to death- buy a Sahara or a Sport. But if you get a big grin on your face off-roading go for the Rubicon since the price isn't that different from a Sahara. But be realistic with yourself like Jeepbugs.
(And like others said- don't worry too much about all the posts. Many people wind up on a forum BECAUSE they're having problems. Thousands of happy stock Jeep owners out there that aren't obsessively online like those of us with the mod-disease. Once you start you can't stop- and we often create our own problems LOL).

zerinS4 08-23-2013 02:30 PM

My 10A was built on a Monday, April Fools day this year. So far I've had zero issues, and zero leaks even after removing the tops more than a dozen times. You'll be fine.

Andrstein 08-23-2013 02:42 PM

The great thing about Jeep, wranglers most specifically, is that they are so universal- there's a model for everyone (or a few good starting points depending on need). The choice is up to the driver. Needs change over time and what works now may not. And that's the beauty about parts: they can be changed just as quickly as needs change.

And what good is neutral statements like that without my opinion: Get a Rubicon. Even if you don't use the parts right now, when the jeep eventually dies someone else will and they will thank you for it. Its an investment in the future of jeepers to come :) My kids and grand kids will wheel my 10a some day (my oldest is 6). Won't anyone think of the children!?

2resa 08-23-2013 02:55 PM

The OP is from southern WI/northern IL. That's pretty flat terrain. Being able to disconnect the sway bars with a push of a button - convenient but necessary if there's nothing off camber? Locking the diff's with a push of a button - convenient but necessary if you're just driving a dirt road to the deer stands? The gearing on a rubi would be better for larger tires but if it's your DD will you be more concerned with mpg's or looks? After all that, I'd either go Sport and save the $ for mods or go ahead and get the Rubi.


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