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-   -   110v mig welder good enough for 8.8 swap? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f218/110v-mig-welder-good-enough-for-8-8-swap-265037.html)

tmcd94 08-24-2013 12:47 PM

110v mig welder good enough for 8.8 swap?
 
Hey I'm looking into doing the 8.8 swap to replace the d35. I need to invest in a welder and this is the perfect excuse to get one. Im wondering if a 110v mig welder would be strong enough to burn in the new perches. I read somewhere that they had to rent a 220v to finish their swap. I have no 220v outlet accesible to me so Im just wondering if its possible to finish this swap with just a 110v either wire feed, or gas. Thanks alot guys!

brachilius 08-24-2013 12:58 PM

I bought a 110 Lincoln from lowe's. You need to run it off a 20 amp breaker. It works awesome. It is a flux core welder. I think I paid $330 with 18 months no interest. I am doing an 8.8 swap right now. Plus, I will already have the welder when I build my cage and rock sliders. I used to use a very similar welder I worked construction. I already welded my soa perches on the front axle. The welds turned out great...and I am not a professional welder.

tmcd94 08-24-2013 01:03 PM

Sadly all my breakers in my garage are 15 amp. Ive read a couple people just swapped the breaker out to 20 amp and were fine but Im not sure if I want to do that. If I run a ext. cord from a 20 amp outlet in the house do you think it would still deliver enough to power the welder?

Mowrangler 08-24-2013 01:03 PM

You probably can get away with a Lincoln or a similar high quality welder but forget about one from Harbor Freight a hundred dollar welder will not cut It. I have a HF welder and pretty much all it is good for is sheet metal.

tmcd94 08-24-2013 01:05 PM

Do you have the 90 amp, or the 170 from harbor freight. I was literally just looking at them on their website.

Mowrangler 08-24-2013 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmcd94 (Post 4115653)
Do you have the 90 amp, or the 170 from harbor freight. I was literally just looking at them on their website.

I have one of the older blue cased models I believe it is a 90 amp model. If you can swing for a Lincoln or a Miller buy one of those it will be easier to learn to weld on those and your results will be much better, flux core welders are ok but I prefer a welder with shielding gas you get much cleaner and stronger welds with greater penetration. My best 110 welder was a Snap-on 110 unit with gas that was incredable but it wasnt cheap. My advice is spent as much as you can afford and have a welder that you can use for other things in the future. And besides that you cant hardly give a used HF welder away let alone get anything for it no resale value.

Dano222 08-24-2013 02:42 PM

Golly Gumpf . . . Just a Heads-Up . . . NOT even an option to change your 15 amp breakers to 20 amp. :facepalm:

brachilius 08-24-2013 03:42 PM

Dano is correct. The wire for 15 amp is 14-2. 20 amp is 12-2. You will cause a fire. Also, I just finished welding my 8.8 with my Lincoln. I used a 50' extension cord out my kitchen window. Most kitchen outlets are 20 amp. The welder worked great.

tmcd94 08-24-2013 03:49 PM

In my kitchen I know I have 20 amp breakers. Im going to pull my outlet out in my garage and just check for the possibly that there is #12 wired in. Worst case scenario Ill run an extension cord from my kitchen.

brachilius 08-24-2013 04:32 PM

Make sure it is a heavy duty extension cord. I picked one up at sam's club for $25. It is construction grade.

CAJUN YJ 08-24-2013 04:43 PM

I have a Hobart handler 140. I run it off of a 15 amp breaker with no issues. This machine burns very good for a 120v machine. I burned in my motor mounts in one pass with some .035 flux core wire. I'm no pro at welding but a 110-120v machine will beable to burn your perches in good as long as u get a quality machine. Miller, Lincoln, Hobart......
My issue was I wasn't going to re wire stuff in my shop just to have a dedicated outlet just for my welder. That's why I went with a 120v machine

tmcd94 08-24-2013 04:52 PM

Yeah I dont want to re wire, nor do I even know how to wire in a 20 amp line. Im going to look into those three you listed and hopefully theyll have some payment plan with 0 interest. Harbor freight is having a huge sale tomorrow and its pretty tempting to check it out.

harleydragon 08-24-2013 08:18 PM

the longer the extension cord and the smaller the wire in it then the less current that will be available for the welder..so use as short of a cord as possible and as large a gauge one as you can find

mbannin 08-24-2013 08:57 PM

The voltage and wire size do not matter. It is the amperage output of the machine that you need to consider. There are machines that run on 120 v but only have a 90 amp capacity output that you can buy cheap but there are machines that run on 120 that have 140+ amp output that cost a bit more. I know - I weld for a living. Do not buy a low amp machine because it will not do the job and you will regret it.

harleydragon 08-24-2013 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbannin (Post 4116748)
The voltage and wire size do not matter. It is the amperage output of the machine that you need to consider. There are machines that run on 120 v but only have a 90 amp capacity output that you can buy cheap but there are machines that run on 120 that have 140+ amp output that cost a bit more. I know - I weld for a living. Do not buy a low amp machine because it will not do the job and you will regret it.

the voltage is a constant in this case 120 volts..the wire size and length of the extension cord does matter..the longer the cord and the smaller the wire then the more resistence it will have which will make less current available to the machine..yes,a 140 amp welder will weld thicker steel than a 90 amp welder but the circuit breaker and wiring that the welder is plugged into has to be able to supply the power that the welder is demanding

tmcd94 08-24-2013 10:05 PM

I believe in both cases of the 90 amp and the 140 amp out put both of them still recommended to be ran on a 20 amp line. Either way Im going to be looking into a 140 amp output, and getting as thick and short of a extension cord as possible to run from my kitchen.

Tyler92yj 08-24-2013 10:16 PM

If the welder over loads the breaker it will just trip all you have to do is reset it its not a big deal if it does just turn down the heat a little I also used a 120 lincon to so my 8.8 swap welds haven't broke yet I've been wheeling about 10 times since the swap I used .030 wire

Square_Eyes 08-24-2013 10:23 PM

I swapped both front and rear axles in my heep with a little Lincoln 120 and haven't had any problems what so ever, just make sure the metal is clean and if are worried make a few passes on whatever youre welding.

Cseistrup 08-24-2013 11:46 PM

If you are going to use an extension cord, make sure it is rated 20 amps and keep it as short as possible. The longer the cord, the more the voltage drop.

bc3_Jeep 08-25-2013 12:42 AM

NONE of these replies are fully correct.

The smaller the wire size and the longer the extension cord are, the MORE CURRENT it will TRY to provide for a given load. Power will attempt to remain equal across the circuit and if the smaller wire causes voltage drop, the current will attempt to rise to compensate. Also, if you leave ANY portion of the extension cord coiled up (ANY PORTION), it can cause inductive heating of the cord and melt it/start a fire under these kinds of loads EVEN IF it is correctly sized.

Voltage is NOT a constant. It can AND will be lowered at the point of use by internal resistance of wire AND current draw of the load. Volts dropped will be proportional to the current X the resistance of the cord. The larger the cord diameter (8 is larger than 10 is larger than 12 is larger than 14) The smaller the diameter of the wire, the more voltage lost for a given current. These are called I squared R losses and can be VERY significant in these kinds of situations. If you repeatedly blow a breaker your extension cord COULD be too small of wire.

You CAN but SHOULD NOT replace your breaker with a 20Amp UNLESS......A) the wire running FROM the breaker to the outlet (all of it, not just what is AT the outlet) is 12 or larger...... and B) Your outlet is ALSO rated for 20Amps.

If you have ANY doubts, contact a JOURNEYMAN ELECTRICIAN (not forum boards).... you are putting your property/family in danger not fully understanding these situations.

harleydragon 08-25-2013 06:45 AM

E=IxR
voltage = current x resistence

87 Florida YJ 08-25-2013 06:48 AM

And don't forget E=MC2. That ones good too

harleydragon 08-25-2013 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87 Florida YJ (Post 4117538)
And don't forget E=MC2. That ones good too

I thought MC2 was that guy that wears the funky pants

87 Florida YJ 08-25-2013 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleydragon (Post 4117636)
I thought MC2 was that guy that wears the funky pants

I'm speechless

harleydragon 08-25-2013 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87 Florida YJ (Post 4117660)
I'm speechless

they say that there is a first time for everything......:whistling:

bc3_Jeep 08-27-2013 07:09 AM

ALSO not fully correcft.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harleydragon (Post 4117536)
E=IxR
voltage = current x resistence


This formula works FINE in DC circuits, but, in AC circuits, impedance due to inductance and capacitance ALSO need to be compensated/taken into account.

A combination of Impedance and Resistance is the culprit when you run too small of a diameter OR coil up an extension cord. It is these impedances which cause inductive heating due to APPARENT POWER vs REAL POWER.......

THIS is why I tell people to consult with EXPERTS instead of your forum wannabe,........

brachilius 08-27-2013 08:05 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a pic of the welds of my ruff stuff shock mounts on my 8.8. It used my Lincoln from Lowes and .035 flux core wired. Notice the heat transfer through the opposite side. This weld is going no where,

87 Florida YJ 08-27-2013 08:12 AM

Looks real good to me. Are you self taught?

harleydragon 08-27-2013 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brachilius (Post 4125356)
Here is a pic of the welds of my ruff stuff shock mounts on my 8.8. It used my Lincoln from Lowes and .035 flux core wired. Notice the heat transfer through the opposite side. This weld is going no where,

looks good..if you run a bead down the backside also it will be even stronger

brachilius 08-27-2013 09:24 AM

I am self taught. I welded a full cage when I was 19 and have been welding off and on since then on my own projects. I am 36 now.


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