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-   -   Crossover steering? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/crossover-steering-267553.html)

swampbuggy98 08-30-2013 07:28 PM

Crossover steering?
 
Anyone have a crossover system on their rig? Ordered Rustys off road crossover system and RC adjustable trackbar and wondering how that steering rides.

Jerry Bransford 08-30-2013 07:34 PM

Uh, ordering something (especially from Rusty's) & then asking for opinions on it afterward is not the order of doing things that many of us would recommend. :)

Cross-over steering systems have a great reputation for causing steering problems like bump steer. My TJ is very well built & the last type of steering system I'd install is a cross-over.

What aftermarket heavy-duty steering system is nearly bulletproof, doesn't cause any steering problems like bump steer, and is easily installed? Currie's HD Currectlync steering system. I'd bet that probably 90%+ of the well-built TJs are running it or Savvy's variation of it that includes a specially heated tie rod that is designed to straighten out after being deflected against a rock, etc..

NJO 08-30-2013 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampbuggy98 (Post 4156577)
Anyone have a crossover system on their rig? Ordered Rustys off road crossover system and RC adjustable trackbar and wondering how that steering rides.

Rusty's...............yeah..........can you cancel that still? Lol.......

The stock inverted y design is still the best on most TJ builds.

PStov98TJ 08-30-2013 07:56 PM

Definitely cancel that RC trackbar. Unless you like terrible clearance that could lead to other serious issues.

swampbuggy98 08-30-2013 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4156729)
Uh, ordering something (especially from Rusty's) & then asking for opinions on it afterward is not the order of doing things that many of us would recommend. :)

Cross-over steering systems have a great reputation for causing steering problems like bump steer. My TJ is very well built & the last type of steering system I'd install is a cross-over.

What aftermarket heavy-duty steering system is nearly bulletproof, doesn't cause any steering problems like bump steer, and is easily installed? Currie's HD Currectlync steering system. I'd bet that probably 90%+ of the well-built TJs are running it or Savvy's variation of it that includes a specially heated tie rod that is designed to straighten out after being deflected against a rock, etc..

Weeellll.....crap. LMFAO I needed something fairly quick and I've got a backup fund goin for the currectlync:) I'm hoping this will last me for a bit I don't do a whole lot of wheelin right now til school's out. Thanks for the input Jerry, always appreciated. Definitely gonna remember that when I upgrade the next time!!

JSY 08-30-2013 08:12 PM

I've been running crossover steering for a while now. No noticeable bump steer... Works just like or better than my stock steering and was half the price of Currie's system. Mine's rugged ridge...

Plus it was convenient to not have to correct my toe through many changes in front weight and spring height I've done over the past year.

swampbuggy98 08-30-2013 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSY (Post 4157673)
I've been running crossover steering for a while now. No noticeable bump steer... Works just like or better than my stock steering and was half the price of Currie's system. Mine's rugged ridge...

Plus it was convenient to not have to correct my toe through many changes in front weight and spring height I've done over the past year.

Hope I get the same outcome! Most of my wheelin is trails and mud with small rocks thrown in so I'm not doing any major rock crawling.

Jerry Bransford 08-30-2013 11:29 PM

Few people would know what bump steer was if it jumped up and bit them. Some Jeepers have it, think its just part of having a lifted Jeep, and are usually shocked when they learn the steering problem they have is actually bump steer and is totally curable. It can be mild or severe, and it can always be cured by correcting the steering geometry. Unfortunately, that sometimes means a whole different type of steering system.

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2013 11:33 AM

I forgot to include a brief description of what bump steer is.

When the steering geometry is incorrect, as in when the track bar & drag link are operating on two different planes, you get bump steer. Bump steer is when the steering wheel is forced left/right as the front axle moves up/down. So if you hit a dip or bump in the road, your steering will be 'bumped' left/right as the front axle moves up & down in response to the bump or dip in the road.

Depending on the severity of the screwed up steering system geometry, bump steer can be anything from minor to severe.

Imped 08-31-2013 12:11 PM

Both of those purchases were mistakes.

Educate yourself on steering and the finer details and you'll understand why.

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4169457)
I forgot to include a brief description of what bump steer is.

When the steering geometry is incorrect, as in when the track bar & drag link are operating on two different planes, you get bump steer. Bump steer is when the steering wheel is forced left/right as the front axle moves up/down. So if you hit a dip or bump in the road, your steering will be 'bumped' left/right as the front axle moves up & down in response to the bump or dip in the road.

Depending on the severity of the screwed up steering system geometry, bump steer can be anything from minor to severe.

Thanks for the description, much appreciated. Definitely helped explain it a little better! Describes my situation but unfortunately on the severe end of it. I was thinking kin along the lines of DW.

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2013 12:21 PM

Is that why you're planning on installing Rusty's cross-over steering? If so, stop right now. If you have bump steer with the stock steering system, the odds are 99.99999% it is caused by someone having installed a dropped Pitman arm.

Does your TJ have a dropped Pitman arm? If so, get rid of it!!! (replace it with a stock OE Pitman arm)

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imped (Post 4170033)
Both of those purchases were mistakes.

Educate yourself on steering and the finer details and you'll understand why.

Had to get it done quick and don't have deep pockets to drop a lot of coin whenever I want. I plan on doing research for later projects but right now had to get done.

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4170169)
Is that why you're planning on installing the cross-over steering? If so, stop right now. If you have bump steer with the stock steering system, the odds are about 99.99999% it is caused by someone having installed a dropped Pitman arm.

Does your TJ have a dropped Pitman arm? If so, get rid of it!!! (replace it with a stock OE Pitman arm)

No it still has the OE. I asked a few of the TJ owners around here and a couple of them have the crossover steering they said it wasn't bad so I figured I'd give it a shot if it doesn't work I'm saving up for a currie system anyway so hopefully it works out okay for the time being. I appreciate all the advice though Jerry!

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2013 12:25 PM

Ok, re-read what I said.... carefully. If you hven't installed that Rusty's kit yet, DON'T. Instead, replace your dropped Pitman arm with a non-dropped Pitman arm like the factory installed & your bump steer should be cured.

P.S. Your local TJ owners steered you wrong on the cross-over steering advice. Based on that previous advice, I wouldd pay no more attention to their future advice.

NJO 08-31-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampbuggy98 (Post 4170177)
Had to get it done quick and don't have deep pockets to drop a lot of coin whenever I want. I plan on doing research for later projects but right now had to get done.

Dude you could have gone to Autozone and done the ZJ tie rod upgrade for cheap. Heck you could have gotten all new TRE's, adjuster clamps, drag link and ZJ tierod for about $130 with lifetime no questions asked warranty. And that would be far superior to what you just ordered and are now waiting for(vs. having it already installed). The inverted Y setup on the TJ is the best steering system you can run STILL. Crossover steering makes no sense on a typical bolt on low lift suspension setups.

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJO (Post 4170345)
Dude you could have gone to Autozone and done the ZJ tie rod upgrade for cheap. Heck you could have gotten all new TRE's, adjuster clamps, drag link and ZJ tierod for about $130 with lifetime no questions asked warranty. And that would be far superior to what you just ordered and are now waiting for(vs. having it already installed). The inverted Y setup on the TJ is the best steering system you can run STILL. Crossover steering makes no sense on a typical bolt on low lift suspension setups.

Weell crap. See that would have benn lovely to have known those two sit ups were interchangeable between the TJ and zJ. Now I have that knowledge for future reference! Chalkin this one up to a learning experience

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4170249)
Ok, re-read what I said.... carefully. If you hven't installed that Rusty's kit yet, DON'T. Instead, replace your dropped Pitman arm with a non-dropped Pitman arm like the factory installed & your bump steer should be cured.

P.S. Your local TJ owners steered you wrong on the cross-over steering advice. Based on that previous advice, I wouldd pay no more attention to their future advice.

I meant it still has the factory pitman arm

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2013 12:41 PM

Have you actually installed that Rusty's kit yet?

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4170489)
Have you actually installed that Rusty's kit yet?

Not yet

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2013 12:47 PM

Can you post a few good sharp photos of your front-end? Good photos might help point to the source of the bump steer.

1-2 photos from the side showing the driver's side track bar mount & the Pitman arm will be important, in addition to some directly from the front.

SOMETHING is causing your bump steer. If there is truly no dropped Pitman arm installed, I would suspect something else has been installed like a dropped track bar mount.

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4170641)
Can you post a few good sharp photos of your front-end? Good photos might help point to the source of the bump steer.

1-2 photos from the side showing the driver's side track bar mount & the Pitman arm will be important, in addition to some directly from the front.

SOMETHING is causing your bump steer. If there is truly no dropped Pitman arm installed, I would suspect something else has been installed like a dropped track bar mount.

I'll try to get a couple tonight after I get off work unfortunately I've got a ton of class work to do or I'd pull the tires off so I could get real good pictures. I'll see what I can do thanks for the help

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2013 01:05 PM

The tires don't need to come off to get the photos that will help figure out what is wrong.

When that Rusty's kit arrives, I wouldn't even open the box. I'd get an RA# (Return Authorization #) from the dealer you bought the kit from & return it for a refund. That kit is not going to do anything positive for you at all. Really.

P.S. Rusty's dealer you bought it from will do their darnedest to convince you how great their kit is & not to return it. They will do their best to convince you to keep it & install it but pay no attention to them... get the RA# & be done with it.

PStov98TJ 08-31-2013 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4170945)
When that Rusty's kit arrives, I wouldn't even open the box. I'd get an RA# (Return Authorization #) from the dealer you bought the kit from & return it for a refund. That kit is not going to do anything positive for you at all. Really.

Do the same for the trackbar. It's just as worthless as that steering set up.

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4170945)
The tires don't need to come off to get the photos that will help figure out what is wrong.

When that Rusty's kit arrives, I wouldn't even open the box. I'd get an RA# (Return Authorization #) from the dealer you bought the kit from & return it for a refund. That kit is not going to do anything positive for you at all. Really.

P.S. Rusty's dealer you bought it from will do their darnedest to convince you how great their kit is & not to return it. They will do their best to convince you to keep it & install it but pay no attention to them... get the RA# & be done with it.

It was quadratec

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 04:41 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry bransford (Post 4170641)
can you post a few good sharp photos of your front-end? Good photos might help point to the source of the bump steer.

1-2 photos from the side showing the driver's side track bar mount & the pitman arm will be important, in addition to some directly from the front.

Something is causing your bump steer. If there is truly no dropped pitman arm installed, i would suspect something else has been installed like a dropped track bar mount.



Attachment 297649



Attachment 297657



Attachment 297665

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2013 05:02 PM

Can't see two areas of prime importance... the Pitman arm from the side, or the passenger-side trackbar mount and where the drag link connects to the passenger side. But from what I can see, that doesn't look like the factory steering system. The track bar is certainly aftermarket.

Also, is your front axle centered or could it be off-center towards the driver's side?

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4175505)
Can't see two areas of prime importance... the Pitman arm from the side, or the passenger-side trackbar mount and where the drag link connects to the passenger side. But from what I can see, that doesn't look like the factory steering system. The track bar is certainly aftermarket.

Also, is your front axle centered or could it be off-center towards the driver's side?

It's definitely off centered I took it to get it realigned couple days ago and they said they couldn't do it because the track bar was too wore out

swampbuggy98 08-31-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 4175505)
Can't see two areas of prime importance... the Pitman arm from the side, or the passenger-side trackbar mount and where the drag link connects to the passenger side. But from what I can see, that doesn't look like the factory steering system. The track bar is certainly aftermarket.

Also, is your front axle centered or could it be off-center towards the driver's side?

I'll try to get those two pictures tomorrow I'm not going to be able to get them tonight

NJO 08-31-2013 06:10 PM

Bro, just do yourself a big favor and a solid. Return that cr@p, go grab the ZJ upgrade kit with a Metal Cloak front trackbar. You can have an entire new front end for under $300 and that's with the highest clearance TB on the market from MC.


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