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-   -   Got busted today (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/got-busted-today-292809.html)

RubiconGoldberg 09-14-2013 02:42 PM

Got busted today
 
Took my JKUR up to the north face of Blue Mountain in Lehigh County, PA this morning to run a power line I used to dirt bike on when I was a kid. Was having a ball just crawling along, testing out the Rubi's drive train - sway bar disco'ed, front and rear locked, really enjoying the scenery. Stopped up top to have lunch and started back down when I noticed a pair of PA State Game Wardens waiting for me. I got out and one of them with a serious attitude approached me and asked for ID. I asked what the problem was and he said I was trespassing on state land. I pointed out that NO WHERE along the main road or the power line turn off was it posted - game land, no trespassing or otherwise. I also mentioned I thought that game land was public land. Made no difference, he gave me a citation for $100. I pointed out that I was not off the trail, not littering, treading lightly, etc. He said they had been having problems with people wheelin' and dumping garbage and I said I understood but clearly, I'm here just trying to break-in the drivetrain a little on my new jeep and would not bypass a no trespassing sign. He said "we cant post signs everywhere" and left. What an A$$HOLE. I plan to contest it in local court on the grounds that the trail was not posted in anyway. Anyone here have any experience in local magistrate fighting something like this?

Thanks in advance,
Bob

jadmt 09-14-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubiconGoldberg (Post 4570625)
Took my JKUR up to the north face of Blue Mountain in Lehigh County, PA this morning to run a power line I used to dirt bike on when I was a kid. Was having a ball just crawling along, testing out the Rubi's drive train - sway bar disco'ed, front and rear locked, really enjoying the scenery. Stopped up top to have lunch and started back down when I noticed a pair of PA State Game Wardens waiting for me. I got out and one of them with a serious attitude approached me and asked for ID. I asked what the problem was and he said I was trespassing on state land. I pointed out that NO WHERE along the main road or the power line turn off was it posted - game land, no trespassing or otherwise. I also mentioned I thought that game land was public land. Made no difference, he gave me a citation for $100. I pointed out that I was not off the trail, not littering, treading lightly, etc. He said they had been having problems with people wheelin' and dumping garbage and I said I understood but clearly, I'm here just trying to break-in the drivetrain a little on my new jeep and would not bypass a no trespassing sign. He said "we cant post signs everywhere" and left. What an A$$HOLE. I plan to contest it in local court on the grounds that the trail was not posted in anyway. Anyone here have any experience in local magistrate fighting something like this?

Thanks in advance,
Bob

this one of the reasons we off roaders are getting shut down. It is yours and mine responsibility to know where is legal and where is not. There does not have to be trespass signs to make land off limits. flame on.

CodyLee1337 09-14-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadmt (Post 4570697)

this one of the reasons we off roaders are getting shut down. It is yours and mine responsibility to know where is legal and where is not. There does not have to be trespass signs to make land off limits. flame on.

There is a fine line between purposeful trespassing and not realizing. No reason to be an ass, I'm definitely on OPs side here.

jeepers29 09-14-2013 02:54 PM

Sorry op, but I am with jadmt. To tread lightly, you must know if the land you are wheeling on is public or need the permission of the land owner. Be thankful the fine wasn't bigger or that they didm't impound your Jeep.

Clwsc2010 09-14-2013 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codylee1337 (Post 4570769)

there is a fine line between purposeful trespassing and not realizing. No reason to be an ass, i'm definitely on ops side here.

x2

jadmt 09-14-2013 02:58 PM

actually in most courts there is no difference as ignorance of a law usually does not get you a pass.

Wrangler60 09-14-2013 02:58 PM

It's illegal to drive a vehicle on state game lands in PA. Unless it is a gravel or dirt entrance road that they open up seasonally. Most ATV/Vehicle paths are marked with signs at the entrance but I'm sure some are not.

jadmt 09-14-2013 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyLee1337 (Post 4570769)
There is a fine line between purposeful trespassing and not realizing. No reason to be an ass, I'm definitely on OPs side here.

I was an ass? For stating my belief and educating so more land is not taken from off road use?

RubiconGoldberg 09-14-2013 02:59 PM

Not looking to start a flame war on the topic. Just wondering if anyone ever contested a similar citation (unknowingly on forbidden land that was unposted) with any success. I agree with jadmt it's my responsibility. That said, I was clearly not causing any damage, littering, etc. I went so far to mention to the LEO that my wife and daughter were visiting a university and I was taking advantage of having a "free" weekend - hoping to appeal to his human side. Anyway, thanks.

JTPhoto JK 09-14-2013 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyLee1337 (Post 4570769)

There is a fine line between purposeful trespassing and not realizing. No reason to be an ass, I'm definitely on OPs side here.

I totally agree, but that is the judgement call of the officer at the time. Unfortunately some officers are not very lenient. Like has already been stated, it is our responsibility to know where we can go. Too many people use the "I didn't know" excuse to get out of a ticket, even though they do know and just got caught.
Not saying that's the case with the OP but the liars shed bad light on those that are innocent.

ohioviper 09-14-2013 03:02 PM

If its is not posted I dont know how they can make the fine stick.Here in Ohio if it is posted you are sol. But if it is not posted they will ask you to leave.

http://youtu.be/qLm3HMG8IhM

C-Ron 09-14-2013 03:04 PM

I agree that you should know whose land it is you're on or if it's public before venturing out. Around here a trespassing ticket is $1,000 so just pay the hundred bucks and accept what the law is. I do get annoyed though when police are rude about things. I treat law enforcement with respect and 99.9% of the time they're polite in return

CodyLee1337 09-14-2013 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadmt (Post 4571001)

I was an ass? For stating my belief and educating so more land is not taken from off road use?

Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse of the law no. But also what are the chances of the properly owner being so offended he would like a ticket issued. Even jf it is state land It does come down to the officer and his choice but I'm hardly going to side with the guy who punishes someone's honest mistake.

Also how would this take more land from off road use if they'll somehow decrease trespassing by decreasing legal land to off road on? If anything it would help to increase more state land becoming accessible for off roading.

I apologize I considered your post to be that of an ass due to the flame on comment. It was too jumpy, I just didnt feel like OP meant anything negative by his post. Sorry

JTPhoto JK 09-14-2013 03:10 PM

It's just simply stated in the law that it is our responsibility. What's to stop a trespasser from hucking the sign in the bush and saying " what sign!" "I didn't see no stinkin sign."
We had many issues in past years with hunters taking signs down and pleading innocent when caught cause they didn't see a sign.

jadmt 09-14-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyLee1337 (Post 4571209)
Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse of the law no. But also what are the chances of the properly owner being so offended he would like a ticket issued. Even jf it is state land It does come down to the officer and his choice but I'm hardly going to side with the guy who punishes someone's honest mistake.

Also how would this take more land from off road use if they'll somehow decrease trespassing by decreasing legal land to off road on? If anything it would help to increase more state land becoming accessible for off roading.

I apologize I considered your post to be that of an ass due to the flame on comment. It was too jumpy, I just didnt feel like OP meant anything negative by his post. Sorry


It is well documented by ORV groups that any time we off road on land that is not legal to off road on we give ammunition to those groups that hate us to begin with and are trying to shut off all land access to motorized vehicle travel. I am sensitive to this because I grew up in Montana where at one time we could go just about anywhere but that is no longer the case. Off road groups have to show they are stewards of the land and respect land that is off limits. Do a google search on tread lightly and start reading. local group here hippyhaters.com is another good info site.

RubiconGoldberg 09-14-2013 03:16 PM

Let me state it was a TOTAL honest mistake....I would not trespass and I always give the LEO respect as I know it's a tough job. I just couldn't believe he was such a ball breaker. His partner seemed a lot more understanding as I was bullshitting with him while the writing officer photographed the Rubi from every angle....I said to the other LEO, "man, your partner must think I'm muling drugs the way he's documenting the "crime" scene. It's like I'm a terrorist". I half jokingly said "am I getting arrested?" He smiled and I got the distinct impression he thought his partner was being a little heavy handed as he said it was "his call". Anyway, thanks again.

CodyLee1337 09-14-2013 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadmt (Post 4571305)

It is well documented by ORV groups that any time we off road on land that is not legal to off road on we give ammunition to those groups that hate us to begin with and are trying to shut off all land access to motorized vehicle travel. I am sensitive to this because I grew up in Montana where at one time we could go just about anywhere but that is no longer the case. Off road groups have to show they are stewards of the land and respect land that is off limits. Do a google search on tread lightly and start reading. local group here hippyhaters.com is another good info site.

Ill definitely have to Check this out. I definitely wasn't as aware as I should be so I understand where you are coming from. So I definitely apologize

tlminh 09-14-2013 03:19 PM

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/upl...opcorn-gif.gif

landi jeep 09-14-2013 04:07 PM

It's not worth your time to fight a hundred dollar ticket. Think of it as you paid to enjoy that time. As long as its not a moving violation? I'd say pay it and consider it as a donation to PA state.

NFRs2000NYC 09-14-2013 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubiconGoldberg (Post 4570625)
Took my JKUR up to the north face of Blue Mountain in Lehigh County, PA this morning to run a power line I used to dirt bike on when I was a kid. Was having a ball just crawling along, testing out the Rubi's drive train - sway bar disco'ed, front and rear locked, really enjoying the scenery. Stopped up top to have lunch and started back down when I noticed a pair of PA State Game Wardens waiting for me. I got out and one of them with a serious attitude approached me and asked for ID. I asked what the problem was and he said I was trespassing on state land. I pointed out that NO WHERE along the main road or the power line turn off was it posted - game land, no trespassing or otherwise. I also mentioned I thought that game land was public land. Made no difference, he gave me a citation for $100. I pointed out that I was not off the trail, not littering, treading lightly, etc. He said they had been having problems with people wheelin' and dumping garbage and I said I understood but clearly, I'm here just trying to break-in the drivetrain a little on my new jeep and would not bypass a no trespassing sign. He said "we cant post signs everywhere" and left. What an A$$HOLE. I plan to contest it in local court on the grounds that the trail was not posted in anyway. Anyone here have any experience in local magistrate fighting something like this?

Thanks in advance,
Bob

Here is an easy guideline for you....

Look at your house on a map. Then draw a 600 miles radius circle around it. If you go wheeling anywhere inside that circle in your rubicon, and need to use lockers, it's illegal. This is why when I want to wheel, I make a 2000 mile drive out west. The trails around here are crap, and even those have overzealous rent a cops busting balls (on legal trails).

NFRs2000NYC 09-14-2013 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubiconGoldberg (Post 4571321)
Let me state it was a TOTAL honest mistake....I would not trespass and I always give the LEO respect as I know it's a tough job. I just couldn't believe he was such a ball breaker. His partner seemed a lot more understanding as I was bullshitting with him while the writing officer photographed the Rubi from every angle....I said to the other LEO, "man, your partner must think I'm muling drugs the way he's documenting the "crime" scene. It's like I'm a terrorist". I half jokingly said "am I getting arrested?" He smiled and I got the distinct impression he thought his partner was being a little heavy handed as he said it was "his call". Anyway, thanks again.

Just so you know (for future use) whenever there are powerlines, the power companies typically own a 50' circle around the tower. This goes for all states.

NYJETS 09-14-2013 04:46 PM

There are no 'No Trespassing' signs around my house but you can bet I would have an issue with you wheelin in my flower bed :rolleyes:

To sprtlt11... thats a pretty wide brush u painting with...

I have been a cop for 15 years and I can tell you from experiance there are some bad apples in the bunch but that is true in every profession.

Silverton34 09-14-2013 04:56 PM

If you take the issue to court refer to it as public land and not state land. Also use the word road instead of trail. A road on public land not marked has to be considered legal.

legitposter 09-14-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYJETS (Post 4573201)
There are no 'No Trespassing' signs around my house but you can bet I would have an issue with you wheelin in my flower bed :rolleyes:
...

Ya know, here in Arizona you can basically shoot to kill on your own property if you have reason to believe a crime is about to be committed. There is no requirement for a homeowner to warn about this with a sign. Perpetrators need to know this law on their own.

I realize its a completely different scenario but it confirms what signs are.. They are there to lend assistance and only assistance.

pocono jeep 09-14-2013 05:02 PM

The Pa game commission is out of control and most seem to be on power trips.There is no ATV's allowed on most lands- but they can patrol on them, no driving on the lands with 4 wheel drive vehicles, but they can- go figure. Your next step is a court date but I caution you to the relationship the office may have with the magistrate because they almost seem to side with the office. I think their prosecution rate is over 95% in the state. I wish you all the luck in the world!

jkmohican 09-14-2013 05:48 PM

I take the OPs side. DNR officers or any law enforcer has no reason to be an A$$ hole to A unwary, compliant person. It's just like any other job that has to deal with the public. Act the way you have to act with the person your dealing with. Many Law enforcers act as if we're all giving them a hard time. Please. I work with the public on many accounts in my work line, and I act according to the way the customers need to be treated. If someone gives me a hard time, I give it right back, if someone was unaware that their doing something wrong and remain patient and compliant, I will remain kind and treat them with respect. I guess many of these law enforcers don't know how to differentiate a compliant person from an (un)compliant person.

RubiconGoldberg 09-14-2013 05:58 PM

With regard to being compliant, the officer said that since I was " respectful and cooperative, he gave me the minimum fine". I live near the courthouse so I will try and go and explain the situation. Maybe the LEO won't show. As for needing lockers within 600 miles of my home, as a poster stated, the trail had one very steep, rocky section - about 100 feet or so. Pretty sure I would've walked up it open, but as I stated previously, I had everything locked because I was just trying to get some run time on the components. Thanks for all the info.

CodyLee1337 09-14-2013 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYJETS (Post 4573201)
There are no 'No Trespassing' signs around my house but you can bet I would have an issue with you wheelin in my flower bed :rolleyes:

To sprtlt11... thats a pretty wide brush u painting with...

I have been a cop for 15 years and I can tell you from experiance there are some bad apples in the bunch but that is true in every profession.

Not to take away from your 15 years but I'd much prefer the bad apples in the profession that can't literally ruin my life.

JEEPDON 09-14-2013 06:05 PM

From the perspective of a land owner (yes, I am one).... if it isn't your land... then it must belong to someone else. Always make sure you have permission to be there!
The 4 wheel drive bunch would all get a lot less crap if the above was followed to the letter! And also leave the terrain better than you found it.
Maybe you didn't throw the trash along the trail, but if you stop and pick it up; some one will see you do these kind of things and start to look at us differently!

Teague242 09-14-2013 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubiconGoldberg (Post 4570625)
Took my JKUR up to the north face of Blue Mountain in Lehigh County, PA this morning to run a power line I used to dirt bike on when I was a kid. Was having a ball just crawling along, testing out the Rubi's drive train - sway bar disco'ed, front and rear locked, really enjoying the scenery. Stopped up top to have lunch and started back down when I noticed a pair of PA State Game Wardens waiting for me. I got out and one of them with a serious attitude approached me and asked for ID. I asked what the problem was and he said I was trespassing on state land. I pointed out that NO WHERE along the main road or the power line turn off was it posted - game land, no trespassing or otherwise. I also mentioned I thought that game land was public land. Made no difference, he gave me a citation for $100. I pointed out that I was not off the trail, not littering, treading lightly, etc. He said they had been having problems with people wheelin' and dumping garbage and I said I understood but clearly, I'm here just trying to break-in the drivetrain a little on my new jeep and would not bypass a no trespassing sign. He said "we cant post signs everywhere" and left. What an A$$HOLE. I plan to contest it in local court on the grounds that the trail was not posted in anyway. Anyone here have any experience in local magistrate fighting something like this?

Thanks in advance,
Bob

Protest it. The game commission is causing a million problems for us. They have even taken land they didn't have permission to be on... and i mean posted signs up an fined people without the owners permission. If there was a trail that you could drive a jeep on, then there would be signs there.

Back in December they took a huge chunk of land behind my house... Put signs up at every single access point. Really those signs are littering the mountain as much as all the other crap.

They go door to door telling landowners a million things about why to give them their land. But all it is is for money. They get $30-40 per acre that they control.

If you send me a PM I'll tell you everything I know about these guys.

A few months ago one of them pointed a gun in someone's face. They were out riding ATVs in the forest behind my house. The warden was trespassing on the land just as much as the kids were. He got fired....

That same guy told me and all of my friends that the land that I'm standing on right now is game commission land.... Next day I call the owner and he's like "no."

If you see signs obey them. The wardens are VERY meticulous in putting those signs up. They have even driven their four wheelers on single track trails designed for dirtbikes to make their territory. So I'm calling BS on his "their doesn't have to be signs" argument... They will tell you ANYTHING to get you to believe them.... Like car salesmen.


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