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-   -   Need some serious SMOG help. (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f218/need-some-serious-smog-help-332825.html)

redneckbrat 10-08-2013 08:07 PM

Need some serious SMOG help.
 
My YJ has failed 4 times. this last time was after having a new cat and muffler installed. the NO is running at 1314 at 25 mph. I need to know what to do next.
:pullinghair: :surrender:

laborrega 10-08-2013 08:23 PM

Seafoam!

jokerchief462 10-08-2013 08:25 PM

If you have a little time to read go to smogtips.com CA website. It will explain all the readings, the causes and solutions. It was a big help.

c5wagner 10-08-2013 08:26 PM

Wait for 2xs to see your post before you take any advice, in the mean time, post up a scan of your results

redneckbrat 10-08-2013 10:18 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's the print out from today.

c5wagner 10-08-2013 10:32 PM

Actually seafoam doesn't sound bad with those numbers, don't know if it will clear it up for sure though

reno92 10-08-2013 11:41 PM

I had the same problem. Did a tune up, Ran several tanks of cleaner through the gas, marvel miracle oil through the oil, took off my throttle body and cleaned it, took off all the sensors and cleaned or replaced, finally ran Guaranteed to Pass and did an oil change. I did pass. The hardest part was the low speed test, the tester told me it would have done better with stock size tires, it seems to run within the speed and rpm for the test lugged the motor with larger heavier tires,

tchoberg 10-09-2013 12:16 PM

I and retired and realize everyone can't do it, and don't want to be a smarta$$, but I solved all of my CA problems (smog included) when I moved to Tennessee last month.

Hard to beat $3.03/gallon gas and $26 for plates. :iamhappy:

Go :censored: yourself Jerry Brown!!!

redneckbrat 10-09-2013 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tchoberg (Post 5222537)
I and retired and realize everyone can't do it, and don't want to be a smarta$$, but I solved all of my CA problems (smog included) when I moved to Tennessee last month.

Hard to beat $3.03/gallon gas and $26 for plates. :iamhappy:

Go :censored: yourself Jerry Brown!!!

Thats too funny. I would live to solve this issue that way.

Norcal_Chris 10-09-2013 02:39 PM

High NOx.

Caused by being lean. vacuumn leak, exhaust leak, bad O2 sensor.

Engine running too hot, bad thermostat, etc.

2xs 10-09-2013 09:05 PM

NOX is created by excessive HEAT, usually resulting in:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Norcal_Chris (Post 5225969)
High NOx.
Caused by being lean. vacuum leak, exhaust leak, bad O2 sensor.
Engine running too hot, bad thermostat, etc.

Carbon on the pistons raising compression or holding heat. and a BIG one for our Jeeps, is an exhaust leak anywhere before the cat converter. This works against NOx because the leak acts like Pulse AIR injection, flooding the front half of the cat with O2, preventing it from reducing NOx, then all that O2 goes into the rear of the cat and is burnt up reducing HC and CO, making it difficult to see in the above sample.

Your Jeep is running clean, except for NOx, the other numbers are about where I would expect your 4.0L to be.

My question is: Do you have any exhaust leaks before the cat?
Are you using "Hotter (Rated)" then stock spark plugs?

Have you had a freeze plug replaced since your last smog check?
Lots of "Lazy" Techs will just push the old freeze plug into the block, and pop the new one in over it. creating a hot spot that can result in high NOx numbers.

What I would do if this was MY Jeep:

SEAFOAM! HOT engine, metered into the engine via the brake booster vacuum line, put a restriction in the hose and just barley pull some out of the can until it starts to run funny.
When you have about 1" left in the can, STALL IT by sucking up as much as you can at once
then let it sit about 15 minutes.

This next part is FUN!
DRIVE IT, start out slow and careful, but have fun, you will smoke out your neighbors!

You might want to do this twice.

You might want to change your oil afterwards, there is usually some in the oil that naturally seps past the rings during treatment, but if you have alot of sludge in your oil, drive it a few days first, it will liquefy some of the sludge and clean out your motor (But we NEVER treat our Jeeps like this so there shouldn't be any sludge, right? :tomatoes:)

After you think you are ready, have it re-tested, and please post the result.

Also go back to that tech, he has a good STAR score, showing me he knows his stuff.

Oh, and:
Quote:

Originally Posted by c5wagner (Post 5203585)
Wait for 2xs to see your post before you take any advice, in the mean time, post up a scan of your results

Thanks!

Day215 10-09-2013 10:40 PM

I had my 92' 4.0 smogged by the same tech I believe, he used to be on pirate before he sold his yota. They gave me some sound "advice", even though they aren't able to offer repair or suggested repair. I was high in Nox also, mine was due to a leaky manifold gasket as well as a few leaks just prior to the cat. I replaced the gasket and welded up the leaks, put a new O2 sensor in and brought it back down. I passed at 25mph but actually went up at 15mph compared to when I first went in. Tech asked how far I drove before I showed up, told him it was only about 2 miles and I came in on a whim, he asked me to come back at 8am sharp, don't shut it down and pull straight onto the rollers, had me flog the shit out of it before I showed up.

I passed, not by much but I passed. I think the leaky manifold took its toll on the cat, which is why it barely squeaked by. Have you checked for vacuum leaks, specifically the manifold gasket?

I'm in Elk Grove, let me know if you need a hand with the gasket, I'm a pro at it unfortunatley.

redneckbrat 10-11-2013 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xs (Post 5236169)
NOX is created by excessive HEAT, usually resulting in:


Carbon on the pistons raising compression or holding heat. and a BIG one for our Jeeps, is an exhaust leak anywhere before the cat converter. This works against NOx because the leak acts like Pulse AIR injection, flooding the front half of the cat with O2, preventing it from reducing NOx, then all that O2 goes into the rear of the cat and is burnt up reducing HC and CO, making it difficult to see in the above sample.

Your Jeep is running clean, except for NOx, the other numbers are about where I would expect your 4.0L to be.

My question is: Do you have any exhaust leaks before the cat?
Are you using "Hotter (Rated)" then stock spark plugs?

Have you had a freeze plug replaced since your last smog check?
Lots of "Lazy" Techs will just push the old freeze plug into the block, and pop the new one in over it. creating a hot spot that can result in high NOx numbers.

What I would do if this was MY Jeep:

SEAFOAM! HOT engine, metered into the engine via the brake booster vacuum line, put a restriction in the hose and just barley pull some out of the can until it starts to run funny.
When you have about 1" left in the can, STALL IT by sucking up as much as you can at once
then let it sit about 15 minutes.

This next part is FUN!
DRIVE IT, start out slow and careful, but have fun, you will smoke out your neighbors!

You might want to do this twice.

You might want to change your oil afterwards, there is usually some in the oil that naturally seps past the rings during treatment, but if you have alot of sludge in your oil, drive it a few days first, it will liquefy some of the sludge and clean out your motor (But we NEVER treat our Jeeps like this so there shouldn't be any sludge, right? :tomatoes:)

After you think you are ready, have it re-tested, and please post the result.

Also go back to that tech, he has a good STAR score, showing me he knows his stuff.

Oh, and:

Thanks!

Thanks, I found part of the issue. I did the Seafoam trick tonite. Lots of white smoke. I felt sorry for my neighbors north of me. As this was going on I found exhaust coming out from under my hood and found that my exhaust manifold has a nice sized crack in it. So I am applying for CAP to get help to fix this. Already have put about $400 or so in it. Can't afford more.

redneckbrat 10-11-2013 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day215 (Post 5238969)
I passed, not by much but I passed. I think the leaky manifold took its toll on the cat, which is why it barely squeaked by. Have you checked for vacuum leaks, specifically the manifold gasket?

I'm in Elk Grove, let me know if you need a hand with the gasket, I'm a pro at it unfortunatley.

You aren't far from me. I'll let you know. Thanks.

Day215 10-11-2013 09:04 AM

I saw your rig at Starbucks once, recognized it from the pirate thread you posted when it got stolen, glad you were able to recover it. I picked up a new manifold from A1 auto for about $125, don't use the cheap gasket it comes with, it blew out on me 3 months later. Let me know if you need a hand, good luck!

redneckbrat 10-11-2013 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day215 (Post 5278121)
I saw your rig at Starbucks once, recognized it from the pirate thread you posted when it got stolen, glad you were able to recover it. I picked up a new manifold from A1 auto for about $125, don't use the cheap gasket it comes with, it blew out on me 3 months later. Let me know if you need a hand, good luck!

Thanks, if the CAP program from BAR denies me, I will need help. I hope the are quick with a response.

redneckbrat 10-11-2013 02:13 PM

Day215, next time you see me, flag me down or stop in.

redneckbrat 10-14-2013 01:17 AM

this tuesday a buddy and I are going to take the exhaust manifold off and then on wednesday my buddy is going to try to fix the crack and we'll put if back on. we'll see what happens.

Day215 10-14-2013 10:50 AM

I don't know if the repair will work, I have read many posts that said the weld just cracked again. Speaking from experience, it would suck to remove everything only to have to do it all over again if the repair doesn't work. My manifold had cracks that couldn't be reached with the tip of the torch even if I tried, i just tossed it out, I would have passed it on if I thought someone could use it.

2xs 10-14-2013 02:00 PM

I have seen muffler shops get a good bead in some hard to imagine areas on Jeeps in this exact same issue.
Without having to remove anything....

c5wagner 10-14-2013 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xs (Post 5356889)
I have seen muffler shops get a good bead in some hard to imagine areas on Jeeps in this exact same issue.
Without having to remove anything....

Ya, stick welders come in handy here. Shouldn't cost you more than 50 to have a shop do it if you can't.

redneckbrat 10-15-2013 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day215 (Post 5352465)
I don't know if the repair will work, I have read many posts that said the weld just cracked again. Speaking from experience, it would suck to remove everything only to have to do it all over again if the repair doesn't work. My manifold had cracks that couldn't be reached with the tip of the torch even if I tried, i just tossed it out, I would have passed it on if I thought someone could use it.

I'm doing this as a temp fix just so I can pass smog and get it registered. I'll fix it right later when I have the money to do it right.

redneckbrat 10-15-2013 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c5wagner (Post 5362305)
Ya, stick welders come in handy here. Shouldn't cost you more than 50 to have a shop do it if you can't.

A buddy of mine is doing it for free. :bop:

CMike357 10-15-2013 09:07 AM

I am not a welder, but when my cast iron exhaust manifold cracked, I replaced it with a header off ebay for under $150. Cast iron is hard to weld on and make it last. The header I purchased was SS and mild steel. It held up 2 years before it cracked. Took it off and had it easily welded back up. Friend did it for free. Cracked exhaust are common on our Jeeps, a friend of mine replaced his with the flex tubing in it and has not had any problems. I didn't get that one because I wanted more of a header than a replacement exhaust manifold. Good luck and let us know how things go.

redneckbrat 10-20-2013 03:36 PM

I have a steel exhaust manifold, welded up nicely. helped, but didn't fix the issue. Failed again. NOx is at 1237, about twice what it should be. I've applied for the CAP program here in Cali and we'll see what happens. going to DMV to finish paying registration, get a temp sticker and then Tuesday I'll pay my fixit ticket.

redneckbrat 10-26-2013 12:24 AM

ok, been a while since I updated. the welding went really well. got all the cracks filled. smogged it last saturday and still failed, but it dame down. I'm going to do sea foam again with what little I have left. Curious, if it's low on oil, will that make it run hotter?

2xs 10-26-2013 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneckbrat (Post 5659153)
ok, been a while since I updated. the welding went really well. got all the crac Curious, if it's low on oil, will that make it run hotter?

Yes, less oil allows more friction.

But, How low?

Post your new test results please.

redneckbrat 10-26-2013 02:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here it is. It was about 1qt low. I can see that it would make a difference, but not enough to pass.

2xs 10-26-2013 04:15 PM

Has your CAT ever been replaced?
If it has perhaps they put a '90 instead of a '91 cat accidently (or due to stupidity).

Not common, but I have seen it.
The '90 carbed 4.2 uses an OC+TWC and relies on an EGR to reduce NOx, it has a smaller NOx reduction front half because it relies on that EGR to reduce the majority of the NOx.


http://www.walkerexhaust.com/support...ytic-converter

redneckbrat 10-26-2013 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xs (Post 5669953)
Has your CAT ever been replaced?

It was replaced a week ago along with the muffler. How can i tell if they put the wrong one in?


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