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-   -   I'm screwed! (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/im-screwed-35104.html)

Sb5551 08-18-2009 05:00 PM

I'm screwed!
 
So I was underneath the heep chasing down some random noises and loose bolts and I noticed that my rear dana 44 is dumping gear oil. The pinion has about a quarter inch of play in it, moving in and out of the diff. How is this possible? It was just rebuilt last year. I know I need to regear but there is no way I can afford this right now with school coming up. Is there any chance it will last another month of 60 mile a day commutes? Anybody want to buy a decent built jeep that just needs to be regeared? I'm screwed and starting to get sick of this jeep thing. I just got it back from the shop chasing down this death wobble.

skeeter 08-18-2009 05:12 PM

Take it back to the person that rebuilt it and see what they might be able to do for you.

jpdocdave 08-18-2009 06:05 PM

if the pinion has that much play in and out, the preload was never set correctly, the bearings on the pinion gear are now shot, and the play is what made the seal go bad and leak. take it back, and it cannot be simply retorqued!! this tends to happen also if the pinion nut is re used without any thread locker, the nut is a one time use nut. over time the improper preload has progressively gotten worse, now it is where its at now.

the pinoin bearings need to be replaced along with the nut and seal and preload needs to be set correctly with an in/lb dial indicator torque wrench.....can you tell i have a pet pieve when people are working on diffs that shouldn't? :cool:

jdhallissey 08-18-2009 06:12 PM

Dave has no clue. Some duct tape will do!

So getting back on point take it back to the shop that did the work as skeeter said. Stand on somebody's desk till they are willing to help you.

Sb5551 08-18-2009 07:09 PM

Do you really think they will do something even after a year? They charged me 1500 to install my detroit and ring and pinion after I had paid for the detroit already..

distortedtj 08-18-2009 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdhallissey (Post 424426)
Dave has no clue. Some duct tape will do!

So getting back on point take it back to the shop that did the work as skeeter said. PEE on somebody's desk till they are GOING to help you.

fixed
:D

skeeter 08-18-2009 07:29 PM

I would raise holy hell. $1500 is too much to set a rear end and they better stand behind their work.

Sb5551 08-18-2009 08:09 PM

Ill pull the reciept and go to them tomorrow. Is there any chance it hurt the detroit in the rear?

I should have known something was up after I had to have the axle seal replaced 4 months after they supposedly replaced it.

350chevrolet 08-18-2009 08:43 PM

shouldnt have hurt the locker unless the pinion moved too far in then it could have taken some chunks out of it. i would be all over the shop that did that work.

PT4WDL 08-19-2009 04:24 AM

Don't give up man, and do as ^^^ they said. I wouoldn't go as far as pissing on someones desk though.HaHa.:blunt: A decent shop should help you out.

Sb5551 08-19-2009 09:04 AM

So I went to the shop and they said they will take a look at on the 26th. The guy said that the bigger tires probably caused the pinion bearing to blow out and then told me it was ok to drive for now. Yea right, but on my way home to park it my idler pulley exploded ball bearings everywhere and I'm sitting on the side of the road waiting for my buddy to get me to the parts store.

jpdocdave 08-19-2009 09:46 AM

i kinda knew the shop would try to weasle out of it. don't stand for that, the bigger tires did not cause the pinion bearings to go bad, improper torque on the pinion nut did, and thats also why the seal failed a few months after the work, and again now. it was never done right from the beginning.

Jeepzcb09 08-19-2009 10:27 AM

if they dont staind behind their work and fix their wrong doings you should protest outside the shop!! and piss on thier desks

Sb5551 08-19-2009 02:18 PM

Yea that seems to be the general idea to pee on their desks. They said they would take a look at it so we will see. It has been about 14 months since they did the work. The guy said that the parts company wont warranty the parts after a year. If they want to do the labor for free I wouldn't mind paying for new parts since I need to regear anyways.

Dave, the rear is a 44. Aren't they adjusted by shims not a crush bearing?

jpdocdave 08-19-2009 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sb5551 (Post 425086)
Dave, the rear is a 44. Aren't they adjusted by shims not a crush bearing?

yes, the preload is set by shims, still measured by the same means wether is a crush sleeve or shims.

Sb5551 08-26-2009 04:59 PM

So they took the rear apart today. The pinion bearings are shot. They didn't explode or wear apart. The outside of the bearings holding the rollers in look like they cracked and the rollers fell apart. The fluid looks like it broke down cause its real thin and both of my axle seals are leaking after replacing them twice this year already.

The guy told me that cause his warranty is a year along with the parts there is nothing he can do cause its been 14 months. He also told me that this happened because of my bigger tires, and that someone took my rear apart because he always stakes his pinion nuts so he can tell when it has been off. He also said that he knows this happened because I installed the SYE. WTF!?

The rear end is completly apart in his shop and he wants to know what I want to do because he can't put it together without new parts and labor charges.

jdhallissey 08-26-2009 05:10 PM

Give me his number please! I would get it towed back to your house or tell him to fk off and toss it in 4 wheel drive and get it home. I would protest that shop and start writing complaints. Bigger tires didn't do anything there along with the sye and drive shaft.

jpdocdave 08-26-2009 05:56 PM

yep, full of crap, bigger tires nor sye caused the pinion bearing failure, improper install did.

Sb5551 08-26-2009 06:09 PM

I wish I could just put it in 4 wheel and drive it home, but there are no axles in it or carrier. He took it all apart to check the ring and pinion and see if there worn? Can't you just look at it. Plus no pinion seal or axles seals either. Its just a bare housing right now. He also said he hoped the bearing races didn't spin in the housing cause that would mess it up needing that to be replaced too, but he did say he didn't think so.

daanbc 08-26-2009 07:43 PM

Ok, this is what you need to do. First off you don't want this same guy doing the same work all over again on your rig. So since we know that, You need to find a flat bed truck to go and pick your jeep up and bring it home or to another place. Tell the guy, you do not want him to touch the jeep anymore. That you have a truck on the way to pick up your jeep. Then ask him if he has insurance. When he ask's why you are asking for that info, tell him you need to give this info. to your attorney. Since this mess up is his fault. Then let him know you have found a reptable mechanic that will defend your case against his bad work. Weather it is small claims court or other. Either way I would not allow this fellow to work on my rig again after this.

jdhallissey 08-26-2009 08:25 PM

and you want all the parts back everything he took out of the truck. Every shim broken piece everything.

Sb5551 08-26-2009 09:27 PM

Do you really think I have a claim? It has been 14 months and he warrantys his work for 12 months? The one thing that was weird was he doesn't have the order number for the parts he ordered for my jeep. I do have the old ring and pinion from the first replacment.

jpdocdave 08-26-2009 09:32 PM

in all honesty, push comes to shove, in a court of law, probably not. but with enough fighting, and the fact the seals failed while in warranty being a sign of improper install may help. but when its black and white, the warranty is 12 mos, and its 14. and any desk ridin judge i can think of will eat it up that bigger tires and sye modifications will cause this.

this is why everytime ring and pinions come up i chime in. there's a small percentage of actuall full time professional mechanics that are equipped and able to install gears correctly. my whole career as a mechanic i've watched "techs" set up gears, "by feel" or just by re-using the old shims. thats what motivated me to learn the proper way, and spend the thousands of dollars i've spent on special tools i only use for gears.

to most mechanics thats a waste of time and money, as long as they get it close and it makes it out of warranty they're happy.

skeeter 08-26-2009 09:33 PM

Yes you have a claim as long as you do your work and can find certified mechanics willing to testify that the damage done to the rear end could not have been caused by the larger tires and sye.

Unfortunately, mechanics don't tend to like testifying against each other and you're going to have to front the cost of repairs until and unless you win your case.
The length of his warranty means nothing if you can "prove" shoddy workmanship.

daanbc 08-27-2009 02:34 AM

Either way he will be out the $$. Worst case he leaves the jeep with this guy, He'll still have to pay him again. I would find a reputable mech. and have the work done there. No harm in trying the sare tatic on this one though, and let him know that his shoty work will be known to all 4x4's.

Sb5551 08-27-2009 05:44 AM

I already have talked to my origiinal mechanic that reccomended him so I know he lost a lot of work. I will get it towed out of there today, but unfortunatly I just dont have the money to get it all done again right now with school and all. Eventually I will take it to Jeff Daniels Jeep. They quoted a worst case of 2500$ to regear both axles with a lifetime warranty.

dooder 08-27-2009 06:13 AM

SB, im in your area. i can come over and help you set up your rear. and i wont charge you anything. let me know.

jgano23 08-27-2009 07:37 AM

it can be very difficult to fight a "professional" in small claims court (in this case the mechanic), and there is a decent chance that you will spend a lot of money and lose, especially if it is in small claims. in small claims court the judge wants all cases out of his court room asap. first you will go to mediation, where you and the other party meet with a mediator. you spend about an hour or so trying to come to a resolution, like: "you pay for parts and i'll pay for labor" or vice versa, or "i'll do the repair, but you get NO warranty." also the fact that it happened outside of the warranty period will be a huge factor in determining the case. i would be willing to put money on it that the judge's first point will be that the repair is out of the warranty period. if you really do your homework and get a mechanic who specializes in regearing (at least one, but more would help) that will attest to the fact that this guy did the work wrong, then you may have a chance. if it is just you and the mechanic in the court room you really don't stand much of a chance. the judge will probably ask why you just didn't do the regear yourself if you knows so much about it and that he did it wrong. it will be very easy for the mechanic to convince the judge that it was not his fault. if he starts throwing out mechanical terms and believable sounding explanations, like the bigger tires and sye argument, then you are probably screwed. i am not saying that you shouldn't go after this guy, i just think that you really need to make certain that you can prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that the work was shoddy and that it was the mechanics fault.

Sb5551 08-27-2009 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dooder (Post 430196)
SB, im in your area. i can come over and help you set up your rear. and i wont charge you anything. let me know.

Really, thank man. I am still waiting to here back from the guy.

JG, if it helps. I put a roof on my lawyers house a few years ago. My legal services are free. Just don't want to waste his time.

jgano23 08-27-2009 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sb5551 (Post 430341)
Really, thank man. I am still waiting to here back from the guy.

JG, if it helps. I put a roof on my lawyers house a few years ago. My legal services are free. Just don't want to waste his time.

having a lawyer definitely helps. you should your lawyer and ask him what he thinks. he should be able to let you know if you have a good case or not, and also what you can do to build your case.


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