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-   -   Locker question (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/locker-question-40031.html)

Jp90Talon 11-17-2009 11:10 PM

Locker question
 
Ok so I am going to re-gear to 4.56's pretty soon and dont have the money to do lockers in both the front and rear. In your opinion should I get lockers for the front or rear and pleaes let me know why you feel this way. I have a 44 rear and 30 front if that helps your decision.

Thanks in advance!

Jerry Bransford 11-17-2009 11:35 PM

When a Dana 44 is in the rear, it's always... at least in my personal opinion... best to lock the rear axle. It is the rear axle that gets used the most and is the axle used most when climbing obstacles so it gives you the most traction where it's needed most, in the rear.

If you have to drive on icy roads in the winter, I would install a selectable rear locker like an ARB Air Locker or an Eaton E-Locker which is less expensive. I personally prefer my Detroit Locker for my desert wheeling conditions but it can be a handful on icy roads & trails. :)

whitebuffalo 11-18-2009 09:31 AM

i'm not going to disagree with jerry, because pretty much the standard is to lock the rear first, but i will say that in the rocks, i have gone farther with just a front locker than i did with just a rear FWIW.

Jerry Bransford 11-18-2009 11:51 AM

Pretty much all of my wheeling is rock crawling and I know of no one that would wheel the 5 and 5+ rated trails I prefer with just a front locker... especially since the front axle shafts would never survive. :)

Schmo 11-18-2009 12:19 PM

If the rear was a Turdy5, I'd put the locker in the front as the 35 is too weak, but seeing that you have the 44, I'd go with the rear first.

I'm wondering though if it would make sense to add the locker to the front first if you had limited slip in the rear, or if having the rear locked would still make more sense . . . I'm not sure.

whitebuffalo 11-18-2009 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 490721)
Pretty much all of my wheeling is rock crawling and I know of no one that would wheel the 5 and 5+ rated trails I prefer with just a front locker... especially since the front axle shafts would never survive. :)

like i said, it defies logic, but i have wheeled the same trails with just one, both, then the other. couldnt get over things with just the rear that i did with just the front.

nmdriver 11-18-2009 12:58 PM

I regeard to 4.56 and put a detroit truetrac in the rear.

I am glad I did. For the fourwheeling I do (nothing too crazy) locking the rear will work for me. I like to fourwheel as far as I can in 2x4 just for fun and then kick in 4x4 so the locker helped with that. I'd do the rear.

Jerry Bransford 11-18-2009 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmdriver (Post 490765)
I regeard to 4.56 and put a detroit truetrac in the rear.

I am glad I did. For the fourwheeling I do (nothing too crazy) locking the rear will work for me. I like to fourwheel as far as I can in 2x4 just for fun and then kick in 4x4 so the locker helped with that. I'd do the rear.

Just so you know, a Detroit Truetrac is not a locker, it's a limited slip differential. There is a huge (!) difference between a locker and a limited slip differential like the Detroit Truetrac. :)

nmdriver 11-18-2009 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 490912)
Just so you know, a Detroit Truetrac is not a locker, it's a limited slip differential. There is a huge (!) difference between a locker and a limited slip differential like the Detroit Truetrac. :)

Yes I am aware of the difference between locker and limited slip.

My bad. :doh:

Are you looking for a locker or a limited slip j90?

nicolas-eric 11-18-2009 04:47 PM

I like my ARB lockers. I use the rear locker more often than the locker in the front. The stock front axle shafts are too weak for a locker IMO. I hope the chomo shafts will be strong enough.

terrible2 11-19-2009 11:44 AM

Id shell out the money and get selectable lockers and not automatic, Are Detroit lockers LSD? or lockers? I thought they were true automatic lockers.

Regardless to the OP shell out the money now and get selectable and 4.56. Just remember you cant really go 70mph on the freeway anymore, itll hit you at 2900 rpms. I try and stay near 60-65 like an old guy now = \

Jp90Talon 11-19-2009 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrible2 (Post 491687)
Id shell out the money and get selectable lockers and not automatic, Are Detroit lockers LSD? or lockers? I thought they were true automatic lockers.

Regardless to the OP shell out the money now and get selectable and 4.56. Just remember you cant really go 70mph on the freeway anymore, itll hit you at 2900 rpms. I try and stay near 60-65 like an old guy now = \

Well iit looks like I will be going with a rear ARB air locker since I won a 25% any 1 ARB product. But Terrible....what are you talking about with not being able to go over 65mph if I upgrade to 4.56's and a rear locker?

nmdriver 11-19-2009 12:36 PM

I think what he is referring too is that by lowering your gear ratio your engine revs much higher then it used to at the same speed.

For me, I am wrapped out (like 3200 rpm or so) at 70 mph or so.

I stick to around 65 that way I am not screaming down the highway.

IIRC there is a speed ratio chart that gives you your rpm at xx tires, xx speed and xx gear ratio and you can pick your ratio you want. I'll see if I can find it.

Jp90Talon 11-19-2009 01:07 PM

That would def be helpfull. I drive around 100 miles a day and usually average about 75 mph on the highway.. If that is going to be an issue with going with 4.56s I may have to rethink doing it.

nmdriver 11-19-2009 01:31 PM

Gear Ratios - Jeepz.com

and

Tires, Gears, MPH and RPM Relationship Between

terrible2 11-20-2009 11:06 AM

if you have 33" tires, get 4.11 gearing, though to me, upgrading from 3.73 which you may have up to 4.11 isnt worth the money unless youre installing it yourself. I went from 3.07 to 4.56. Heck if you end up regearing to 4.11 and putting in the selectable locker, you might be better off buying it off some guy who owned a rubicon and is selling his rear D44 with lockers.

And yea nmdriver hit it on the spot with my point. Also if I had the money right now, id go right in with you and buy a snorkel so you get a bigger discount = \

terrible2 11-20-2009 11:16 AM

Also, if you go off roading seldom, id buy 12.50s, but if youre also going to be driving with them, get 10.50, youll save more gas. And dont get MTRs, get A/Ts I believe most A/Ts do better on gas, and its quieter

Jerry Bransford 11-20-2009 12:18 PM

Jp90Talon, exactly what transmission are you running and what tire size are (will) you running? And the mpg difference between most commonly installed MTs and ATs is insignificant. And some MTs are really not significantly louder than most ATs. When I made the switch from BFG ATs to BFG MTs (though I switched to MT/Rs two sets of tires ago), I was surprised the BFG MTs were barely louder at all than the BFG ATs were. Barely.

The right ratio for your rig depends entirely on what tranny you're running and what size tires you have and/or that you will be running in the future. With some size tires and transmissions, like 33" and the 5-speed, 4.56 is ideal and you could drive 80 mph if you needed to. With other size tires or transmission types, 4.56 could be too much or too little... so it's impossible to make a solid ratio recommendation without knowing your transmission type and tire size.

And Terrible2, a Detroit Locker is a full case automatic locker, not a LSD. :)

Jp90Talon 11-20-2009 08:30 PM

Well I have a 2001 4.0 5spd wrangler with stock tranny so whatever tranny it came with. I am running 32" BFG ATs right now and may go with 33's own the line but as you can see in the pic I am not all that sure going a little larger would be a good idea since I still like the idea of having a little room to flex. I dont see myself going any higher either since I put so many miles on it. I have always just been a fan of doing things right the 1st time and not having to worry about it down the road. A local old school jeeper suggested 4.56s and I figured that he would know best. Now I am pretty torn on the idea since I regularly drive a bit over 75mph (I get reimbursed for gas through work) and never even thought that it would be an issue with new gears. I just hate having to down shift on the highway to make it up hills and on real steep ones struggle to keep it above 60mph.

Hope that helps answer...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...p/102_0545.jpg

Jerry Bransford 11-20-2009 09:26 PM

With 33" tires and your 5-speed transmission, 4.56 is ideal. You'll be able to cruise at any safe highway speed you want, the rpms will not be excessive at all. Don't make the mistake of being afraid of 4.56 and going with 4.10 as I did ten years ago when I was running 33" tires, I regretted that decision within days of doing it. :)

terrible2 11-21-2009 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 492078)
Jp90Talon, exactly what transmission are you running and what tire size are (will) you running? And the mpg difference between most commonly installed MTs and ATs is insignificant. And some MTs are really not significantly louder than most ATs. When I made the switch from BFG ATs to BFG MTs (though I switched to MT/Rs two sets of tires ago), I was surprised the BFG MTs were barely louder at all than the BFG ATs were. Barely.

The right ratio for your rig depends entirely on what tranny you're running and what size tires you have and/or that you will be running in the future. With some size tires and transmissions, like 33" and the 5-speed, 4.56 is ideal and you could drive 80 mph if you needed to. With other size tires or transmission types, 4.56 could be too much or too little... so it's impossible to make a solid ratio recommendation without knowing your transmission type and tire size.

And Terrible2, a Detroit Locker is a full case automatic locker, not a LSD. :)

Whoops I only brought up MTR were louder from reading websites and never trying them out. As for MPG difference, maybe its a common misconception ive read over and over again.

Why did you switch to MTR out in SD? Arent ATs better for Rocks/Sand?

Jerry Bransford 11-21-2009 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrible2 (Post 492466)
Whoops I only brought up MTR were louder from reading websites and never trying them out. As for MPG difference, maybe its a common misconception ive read over and over again.

Why did you switch to MTR out in SD? Arent ATs better for Rocks/Sand?

Don't be switching tires on me ;) as you first said MTs but now you say MTR (MT/R). MT/Rs as made by Goodyear are louder than some MTs but only once they get a lot of miles on them. I've had two sets of MT/Rs and will be going with the new kevlar MT/R asap, my present MT/Rs are getting pretty worn.

ATs are a very good all-around offroad (and onroad) tire and they do good in many sand conditions and on some rocks. But both the MT and Goodyear MT/R are more agressive on the rocks which is my main interest. And when the rocks get sharp as they often are in our SOCAL deserts, the MT/R shines because it has such a cut-resistant design. My old BFG MT sidewalls used to get cut and sliced up all the time on the rocks while rock crawling. But in two sets of MT/Rs, I've only had one cut sidewall on even tougher trails. And the new MT/R has an even tougher kevlar reinforced side wall that Goodyearsays is 30% more cut resistant and stronger... ideal for rocks & rock crawling.

By the way, SOME MTs are quite noisy but not the BFG MT. And until it gets a lot of miles on it, the MT/R is pretty quiet. My present MT/Rs, as worn as they are, are getting noisy... almost as noisy as some other MTs are when they are new. :p

nmdriver 11-23-2009 01:12 PM

Did you make your decision amigo?

I dunno man. I love my 4.56 gears but if I am driving my jeep 100 miles a day and I knew for a fact I wasn't going to put on bigger then 33" tires and I did not tow a trailor I would probably go to 4.10's.

If you would like I could hook up my gps that gives my (an accurate) mph reading and film (have my wife film, I can only do so many things at once) me driving normal from 0 to 80mph or whatever and I will film the rpm's.

I have 33" with 4.56's. ;)


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