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-   -   Opinions Wanted (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f116/opinions-wanted-45713.html)

JDsDream 03-03-2010 04:32 PM

Opinions Wanted
 
This video has been showing up on some not so Jeep friendly forums. I would like to know what you think about it. Watch it through and give your opinion.

YouTube - GaTR Holiday Ride River Ford

OSUJEEPER 03-03-2010 04:45 PM

I don't see the problem here? Is it just me?

Ghosthiker 03-03-2010 04:56 PM

The only possible thing is where that last Jeep Wrangler stopped and then accelerated hard. But nothing really wrong. I hike/backpack and I have a Jeep. There has to be a balance in this world. Sure, you can't destroy everything, but you should be able to use it. Many naturalists (read: tree huggers) will always fuss about others destroying nature. I imagine that's how the Indians felt as they watched the wagon trains move across the west and leave ruts.

InfernoGirl 03-03-2010 05:03 PM

I didn't see anything offensive.

JIMBOX 03-03-2010 05:28 PM

:eek: Well if it's a one trip shot on that stream--OK, but 17 jeeps 2 1/2 minutes, maybe they do it twice/three times a day every weekend, not enough data

Don't know if that stream empties into a lake CLOSE, or into a river

Is it private prop. or fed. or public

Lots of reasons for displeasure, but gotta have more data

Once a month during the summer, it'd be OK with me, but I doubt if thats the No. of crossings on that stream !!

I was part of some of the Sierra (West) trail closures, starting in the 1970's, but that didn't last long, the State of Ca./Sierra club and a couple of subtle groups got a little/lot, to strict and my business depended a lot on the areas they started padlocking

Anyway I also love trout fishing and that don't hep it NONE

:rofl::rofl: JIMBO

PecosRiver 03-03-2010 05:30 PM

I can tell you why they love this type of video:
  • The silt and sediment that the wheels stir up will hurt the fishies and other animals that depend on the stream.
  • The tires stirring up the streambed will cause erosion and deepen the stream.
  • The water washing agaist the stream banks causes bank erosion and would widen the stream.
I wouldn’t post crap on YouTube because so many evil people view it daily. (Evil=Econuts)

GroceryGrabber 03-04-2010 11:47 AM

I don't get it. Maybe the guy in the Jeep stopped, flipped off the other guy when he caught up, then took off?

What were the people on the anti-jeep forums saying?

G54 03-04-2010 03:48 PM

I would have to assume the video was being used to show irresponsible wheeling. Even if the location they were wheeling in was legal, which I hope it was, the couple of unnecessary wheel spins were probably enough for them to say - "See, they're ruining the environment! Those poor fish!" Most of the vehicles ran the stream responsibly it would seem, the last couple guys didn't appear to be treading too lightly though.

I suppose we are being watched pretty closely by those whose desire it is to shut down what trails we have left. Let's not give them any more ammunition.
Tread Lightly and stay on legal trails.

Stefan 03-04-2010 03:58 PM

I mean, I don't really see too much of anything wrong with it.

But those 2 guys at the end seemed kinda like idiots for spinnin for no reason
that screws up the gears in the diffs and loses traction...they shoulda started up slower

but the environment can deal with that sorta thing every so often...

There's no such thing as saving the earth...what the hippies should say is, "save our habitat so we can continue to survive". We CANNOT hurt the earth...only ourselves.

Example: Put a rock next to a person...see who survives the longest.

Samsrubicon 03-04-2010 04:04 PM

looks like fun IMO, if u listen closely they stopped and were talking u can hear one person yell from one car to another, doesnt look like they bothered anyhting and his tires spun for a fraction of a second, people need to relax, the earth has been here for millions of years and its gonna be here millions of years after we're gone. people just dont like to see other people having fun.

Stefan 03-04-2010 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samsrubicon (Post 561664)
looks like fun IMO, if u listen closely they stopped and were talking u can hear one person yell from one car to another, doesnt look like they bothered anyhting and his tires spun for a fraction of a second, people need to relax, the earth has been here for millions of years and its gonna be here millions of years after we're gone. people just dont like to see other people having fun.

x2 on that one man, we can't hurt the earth...it's as old as dirt :)

AzTJ 03-04-2010 04:18 PM

If that stream/creek is not on private property or a designated trail, then what they are doing is considered Trail Blazing, which is why a lot of area get shut down to all OHV. it may be fun and seem harmless, but it's the grander scale of it that needs to be looked at.

Geoff@Bestop 03-04-2010 04:20 PM

Tread Lightly policies would suggest that you NOT drive down a river bed, just like they tell us not to drive through meadows. BUT, it depends on the location. There's at least a couple of official trails here in Colorado that cross rivers where you need to go downstream a bit. (one cool trail makes you drive down the creek for about a 100 yards. It confused me the first time, thinking I had missed the trail on the other side).

There are a few trails in Northern Idaho where the rivers are so dead from mining that the Jeep clubs use them legally.

Stefan 03-04-2010 04:23 PM

It seems like that's a private area or designated...I mean considering the number of drivers and the fact that all the undesignated spots around my area are under 24hr surveilance by 5-0...I'm rather sure it's a legal spot.

G-Pur 03-04-2010 04:41 PM

The only thing that offended me was the Hummer truck with two jackasses sticking out of the window and sunroof with cameras. It just looked like something a limo full of girls would do on the way to prom.

Schmo 03-04-2010 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Pur (Post 561698)
The only thing that offended me was the Hummer truck with two jackasses sticking out of the window and sunroof with cameras. It just looked like something a limo full of girls would do on the way to prom.

LOL!!!


Usually it is better to cross straight across to limit the impact to the stream, but like others have mentioned some trails may require a bit of up or down stream travel, in which case, I wouldn't be concerned as long as they are staying on the designated trail. Based on the number of them and how just about everyone up until the last couple of JAs, made their way thru slow and smooth like they should, I would expect that what 95% of them did was just fine . . . just could have gone without the last couple of guys at the end . . . and yeah the prom night hummer!

whiteyj 03-04-2010 05:18 PM

It's the whole Tread Lightly concept that we need to be thinking about. Stewardship towards the outdoors and this one and only earth we have. Here in the west so many OHV roads have been closed and more closing everyday. Sure it's fun to drive down a stream but what about the silt kicked up and the grease & oils off motors, transmissions, and running gear that gets deposited into the water.

denis4x4 03-06-2010 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteyj (Post 561729)
It's the whole Tread Lightly concept that we need to be thinking about. Stewardship towards the outdoors and this one and only earth we have. Here in the west so many OHV roads have been closed and more closing everyday. Sure it's fun to drive down a stream but what about the silt kicked up and the grease & oils off motors, transmissions, and running gear that gets deposited into the water.

Remember the Range Rover ad back in the '80's, "We brake for fish"? The headline and photo became the poster for anti-OHV groups nation wide. It also was the final push to form a pro-OHV advocacy group that ended up being TREAD LIGHTLY!. FOUR WHEELER covered one of our 4x4 Tours and refused to take pictures of Jeeps crossing Hermosa Creek throwing up rooster tails as those prompted angry letters to the magazine from the eco-nazis.

4Jeepn 03-06-2010 02:10 PM

Nothing wrong with the video by itself.. looks like a nice place to wheel. As stated the other side will point to sediment, wash along the shore line etc etc.. which without data is worthless. Water issues are one of the main reason's Tellico was shut down. However, the data used was much like the global warming data. False and misleading.

JoAnne 03-21-2011 12:34 AM

This video is really disturbing. It is clear they are not fording this stream, so that only leaves two other explanations--these riders are either really stupid or they're evil. This kind of behavior will get the last ORV park shut down, and yes it makes a great anti-ORV propaganda film...see the little endangered salmon trying to spawn on the gravel, now see the big mean men with their jeeps...oh saints preserve us.

millfire517 03-21-2011 01:22 AM

Eco hippies need to choke themselves!!!!!!!!!!

Reaperonin 05-10-2011 10:18 PM

Yea..
So someone touched earlier on Moderation.

That is the issue here I think.

That is just fine. Me and two buddies do that a few times a year. No hard feelings at all.

That was 20 jeeps though. Although an awesome squad to roll with.. lil bit excessive.


Honestly though, I have caused more natural destruction than that in a few short minutes with my jeep.. So I may be biased as to the negative ramifications lol..

JoAnne 05-11-2011 07:48 PM

Whatever you say buddy. I am not the one trying to shut down ORV parks. I'm just saying there are green police out there, self-appointed or otherwise, and if people pull stunts like this they will get found out and parks shut down.

Schmo 05-11-2011 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoAnne (Post 1128713)
This video is really disturbing. It is clear they are not fording this stream, so that only leaves two other explanations--these riders are either really stupid or they're evil. This kind of behavior will get the last ORV park shut down, and yes it makes a great anti-ORV propaganda film...see the little endangered salmon trying to spawn on the gravel, now see the big mean men with their jeeps...oh saints preserve us.

Whatever you say buddy. I am not the one trying to shut down ORV parks. I'm just saying there are green police out there, self-appointed or otherwise, and if people pull stunts like this they will get found out and parks shut down.

Are you familiar with this area, trail, stream, etc or do you just enjoy the state of being disturbed? As others have mentioned, unless you have intimate knowledge of the area, there is not enough data to determine whether their actions are wrong or not (outside of perhaps a bit of wheel spinning). Instead of considering all the options, you seem to jump to the same conclusion that the eco-nuts do . . . "either they're stupid or evil" . . . nicely done JoAnne! If you're that worried about the green police, I suggest you recycle that evil gas guzzling pollution spewing mother earth killing death machine and start riding a bicycle.:doh:

JoAnne 05-15-2011 01:48 PM

Yes, I am worried about green police. I have seen multiple livelihoods destroyed and lives wrecked by them, as has anyone who is paying attention.

And since you totally missed the point, "Schmo," I'll spell it out for you: Politicians get far more votes from "environmentalists" than from ORV park users. ORVers are the ones on the defensive politically--that's just a plain fact.

Any self-appointed environmentalist could potentially use this video to persuade politicians to shut down ANY ORV park.

They do not care what the actual location of the video was--or whether it is a spawning stream or completely dead stream biologically. The video shows a behavior wrt to the natural environment, which has evidentiary use for them.

That's why those who did this and filmed it were either stupid (they don't know this) or evil (they knew, but didn't care).

Schmo 05-16-2011 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoAnne (Post 1240975)
Yes, I am worried about green police. I have seen multiple livelihoods destroyed and lives wrecked by them, as has anyone who is paying attention.

Well good for you. How the green police are going to twist or interpret my actions doesn't rank too high on my list of worries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoAnne (Post 1240975)
They do not care what the actual location of the video was--or whether it is a spawning stream or completely dead stream biologically.

Exactly my point, regardless of the facts these eco-nuts (and you) will jump to the same conclusion . . . "It is clear they are not fording this stream, so that only leaves two other explanations--these riders are either really stupid or they're evil." For all you or likeminded tree hugging hippies know, the trail was routed that way to avoid an endangered weed or roach.

sevenservices 05-16-2011 02:00 PM

...the only thing I see out of place is the hummer in the center of the group. I understand though, the safest position is with jeeps in the front, and jeeps in the back. Then he's not worried about getting stuck!

crafty 05-17-2011 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Jeepn (Post 563584)
Nothing wrong with the video by itself.. looks like a nice place to wheel. As stated the other side will point to sediment, wash along the shore line etc etc.. which without data is worthless. Water issues are one of the main reason's Tellico was shut down. However, the data used was much like the global warming data. False and misleading.

Can't resist posting on this Tellico statement, interesting thing that happened later---this area is being logged now :confused:

Here is a similar confusing thing, some of the forest roads in Florida have washouts in the middle of the road that ORVs can get tickets for being in saying it is destroying government property. However the forest service can take huge graters and smooth out washouts taking down trees in the process.

JoAnne 05-17-2011 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmo (Post 1242894)
Well good for you. How the green police are going to twist or interpret my actions doesn't rank too high on my list of worries.

Yah, duh.

Obviously the folks in the video weren't worried about them, either. Yet the reason it was posted here in the first place was because it WAS being circulated on Jeep-hostile websites.

Schmo 05-24-2011 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoAnne (Post 1245994)
Obviously the folks in the video weren't worried about them, either. Yet the reason it was posted here in the first place was because it WAS being circulated on Jeep-hostile websites.

Good for them . . . I've yet to see you or anyone else claim intimate knowledge of the area, stream, etc so for all we know, they were on the designated path and doing nothing wrong. At a certain point you may come to realize that the eco-nuts hate what we do regardless of how we do it. If they didn't cross a stream, then they put dust into the air, ran over a endangered weed, or some other evilness . . . they don't want you out there period. So this video is being circulated on Jeep-hostile websites . . . great . . . at least it's not something worse. Personally I'd rather have a video like this on the Green Police sites where a level headed viewer might think to themselves, what's wrong with that like many have done here, vs. the other videos floating around that show beer guzzling morons tearing everything up.


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