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Dare2BSquare 01-21-2007 08:31 PM

A Little Hunting Debate
 
Okay, let's carry on the hunting debate on it's own private thread. That way we don't hijack anyone else's thread.

Amerijeep, are you familiar with Quality Deer Management? In a nutshell, it is a program which landowners manage not only the deer herd, but the ecosystem to produce mature harvestable bucks which display improved body mass and antler mass. In my opinion, everyone wins in this situation. The deer herd has year round food sources (food plots) and even mineral supplements to raise the general health of both bucks (for antler production) and does (for fawning).
Harvesting is selective and the goal is to reduce the buck to doe ratio to control overpopulation and to set a goal of only harvesting mature (4-5 year old) bucks.
Not only do the deer benefit, but turkeys and other game and non-game animals benefit from the management techniques.
The driving force behind this hunting landowners. No one else seems to have the resources or the desire to undertake such a big project. The payback for them is having their land produce record book bucks.

Give me your input.

kg4kpg 01-21-2007 08:35 PM

I don't hunt, but my dad does. Seems fine to me. I wouldn't classify them with deer on un-managed programs, but it could be it's own group. I like it best when my dad send me the jerky, um um good! Makes good chili too.

amerijeep 01-21-2007 08:41 PM

Huh? You talkin' to me?

Dare2BSquare 01-21-2007 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amerijeep (Post 47713)
Huh? You talkin' to me?

Yeah, you said you enjoyed our previous discussion and you had been doing research...

so discuss.

amerijeep 01-21-2007 08:49 PM

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you now.

I think that baitin' is unsporting though. Salt, feed plots, etc. We can discuss that if you want.

Dare2BSquare 01-21-2007 08:53 PM

I would disagree about the food plots. When you scout for deer you determine where they are feeding and where they are bedding and you set up where they will be traveling to and from. What is the difference if you are supplying the browse or it is a farmer's bean field?

amerijeep 01-21-2007 08:57 PM

I still say it aint huntin' if you sit there and just shoot what walks up to you. Huntin' is when you track and stalk somethin'. Sittin' in a tree and shootin' somethin' that is goin' to it's regular place to eat or drink is unsporting.

Dare2BSquare 01-21-2007 09:01 PM

So, I shouldn't scout out the area I am going to hunt to find out where the rubs and scrapes are, where they are feeding and bedding or what their travel routes are? It's the most fun part of the hunt. I should just go out and sit down in the woods not knowing if any deer are there or not, and hope something walks by? A lot of pioneers and settlers would have starved!!!

amerijeep 01-21-2007 09:06 PM

We aren't pioneers, bro. We have established a somewhat civilized society.

Certainly you should do the scouting and stuff. But, I still have a problem with sittin' in a tree and waitin' for a deer that is comin' for the sweet feed you left there for it.

Dare2BSquare 01-21-2007 09:21 PM

I'm not talkin' about sitting over a feeder. I am talking about planting browse to improve the ecosystem to support healthy deer. Yes, one of the side benefits is that it attracts more deer to the property. And it makes it easier to see deer. And harvest deer. But the sport is still there. There are so many more variables that are in the deer's favor. 1) they have a very keen sense of smell. If you do not play the wind right, they scent you and you never see them. 2) Older bucks didn't get that way by not being smart and observant. 3) You are being selective in what size / age structure you are going to harvest. You don't want to harvest young bucks or does, just the mature ones.
I don't know if you have ever hunted or not, but I can assure you it is not just shooting fish in a barrel. There are so many things that can go "wrong" for the hunter.
Most of the sport of it is scouting and finding the right place to hunt. You think you know their patterns and the weather changes and they change their habits. That is why even people who hunt over bait don't go out and fill all their tags in a week.

amerijeep 01-21-2007 09:31 PM

I used to hunt. Grew up on it. No anymore. It's not who I am anymore.

Dare2BSquare 01-21-2007 09:33 PM

That's cool.

Different strokes.

Gotta go. More later if you want.

Let's hear from some others.

amerijeep 01-21-2007 09:34 PM

Yes. Who among you has murderous intention in their head?

skeeter 01-21-2007 09:38 PM

Last time I went hunting it with a .54 cal hawkins muzzle loader, Amy and I walked all over the mountain lugging these things around following game trails, walking creeks, climbing over logs larger than we are put together. We didn't see anything till we were almost back to camp but we had fun hiking the mountain.
The time before that was with a 55lb long bow and home made arrows, again walking all over, scouting the land and learning about the animals, we would see were they liked to bed down, were they liked to go for a drink, what they liked to eat and when we finally caught up to some we learned what it takes to stalk up to within 30 yards of a dear.
Only still hunters have to worry about weather changing habits.

tiny terror 01-21-2007 10:09 PM

I've never hunted, but my family back east hunts. My Uncle Nick gets a deer every year with a bow. That's more sport than a gun. And he eats what he kills.

When I was six, I witnessed a group of hunters form a line in the forest behind my home and drive the deer into a group. From there they shot about 20 or so. Then these hunters used chain saws to cut up the deer. They didn't field dress, they didn't take the meat. They took the antlers.

Hunting leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

amy 01-21-2007 10:25 PM

Those aren't hunters, Tiny. Those are stupid, wasteful slaughterers.

JeepnTX 01-21-2007 10:26 PM

Bowhunting FTW :flipoff:

rebelBullDawg325 01-21-2007 10:41 PM

as far as the salt comment. salt is completely in-effective during the huntin season. deer only come to salt during the winter. it is basically used to keep the deer in your area fed and make sure they stay in on/near your land. planting food plots is a good thing all around. it makes the deer healthier and like dare2besquare mentioned, selective harvesting. you only harvest does you or some1 else will eat, and only harvest bucks you will mount. aslo ,the state departmens of natural resources help out a lot. back when my dad was my age down here in GA, if you saw a buck, you shot it, no matter what size. and up until a few years ago, there was only specific days you were allowed to shoot does. now, thanks to the awesome job of GA's game wardens and the growth programs they've laid out. we can kill 10 does a yr (on any given day) and 2 bucks, one of which much have at least 4-1" tines on one side. and is some counties, both bucks must fall under this category. and hunting isnt just sitting and shooting what walks out. you've got to know the land, know the deers habbits. you have to figure out where the deer are, where they move, what time the move, know the average wind direction in the location, several different factors. then you have to not spook the deer that MAY come out near year, meaning, he cant smell you, hear you, see you move(not even while getting your riffle/bow ready). when people speak of hunting, they are talkin about one specific day in the tree. you can hunt a specific deer for weeks, months, even years. i know several people that have been hunting a certain deer for a couple of years. and just bc you see the deer doesnt mean you shoot it. more often than not, if it aint the deer you want you let it walk. and even if it is the deer you've been hunting, if you dont know 100% that you cna drop him in his tracks, you let him walk and try again the next time. twice this year i saw deer that i put my scope on, put the crosshairs right where i wanted and to myself said "bang". this satisfied me, knowing that i could have if i wanted to kill those deer. that is a successful hunt.

whitebuffalo 01-22-2007 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiny terror (Post 47769)
When I was six, I witnessed a group of hunters form a line in the forest behind my home and drive the deer into a group. From there they shot about 20 or so. Then these hunters used chain saws to cut up the deer. They didn't field dress, they didn't take the meat. They took the antlers.

Hunting leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

cheese and rice....they needed chainsaws to cut off the antlers? how big are the deer out there?

Mike001 01-22-2007 08:06 AM

Blinds and stands are great if you're just trying to sill the freezer and in a hurry. I kike to find were the deer are moving and when I am satified with the are I have found and think I will do good I lay out deer corn all around and go back each day and check the corn once they start eatin I get there real early and sit in the brush and wait for a good deer to come and give its life so I can eat.

Mike001 01-22-2007 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiny terror (Post 47769)
I've never hunted, but my family back east hunts. My Uncle Nick gets a deer every year with a bow. That's more sport than a gun. And he eats what he kills.

When I was six, I witnessed a group of hunters form a line in the forest behind my home and drive the deer into a group. From there they shot about 20 or so. Then these hunters used chain saws to cut up the deer. They didn't field dress, they didn't take the meat. They took the antlers.

Hunting leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Thats not hunting. Thats just wrong I would have shot someone if I seen some shit like that.

tiny terror 01-22-2007 09:27 AM

Yeah, I know what I described isn't close to hunting, but it stuck with me. And White Buff, these guys were drunk and I was living in New Jersey at the time just off Warton State Tract.

They left the bodies, it was obvious that they'd tried to take some of the meat, or so my father said. I was little, the memories aren't so much about afterward, plus I wasn't allowed to go out there. Dad went out and cleaned up, I'm not sure what he did, but he didn't want it that close to the house.

I see no point to hunting if you are not eating what you kill. And, I have no desire to kill anything, now excuse me while I walk this spider out of my house.

Mike001 01-22-2007 09:51 AM

Some people do stuff like that just to take the backstraps and quarters. I take all of it.

Dare2BSquare 01-22-2007 10:38 AM

Unfortunately "hunters" like that give hunting a bad reputation. It gives a very good arguement to anti-hunters. Most people who hunt follow the regulations and are ethical and humane. Alcohol and hunting do not mix.

Mike001 01-22-2007 11:26 AM

Well I disagree about the hunting and alcohol thing but there is a limit and you have to be responsible. I like to have a few beers while I'm sitting on the ground freezing my ass off or sitting in a stand. If you can't do that responsibly then don't do it. If you drink to much you put your rifle up and grab a shotgun. Then look for the varmints that tear up crops and feed plots.

amy 01-22-2007 12:35 PM

I'm sorry, Mike, but I disagree with you on that. Mixing booze with guns is like mixing booze with jeeps. A bad idea. Have a thermos of something hot while hunting and save the beer for after your gun is put away (or your jeep is parked for the night).

Texapple 01-22-2007 01:38 PM

......accidents happen without intent...let's put into the mix something that will alter your consciousness and delay motor skills....why risk it? AD doesn't need any more business :)


If I stepped on any toes...apply ice and the swelling will diminish in 24' :D

Mike001 01-22-2007 02:46 PM

To each his own. I've been doin it for years. When we wheel we take some beer with us too its just something we do not to get drunk though.

rebelBullDawg325 01-22-2007 04:08 PM

those of yall that are against hunting bc is isnt "sporting" how many of yall eat beef, pork, fish, or chiken???? tell which is more sporting; scouting out the woods finding the patterns of your prey, and then finding them, and killing them and eating.... OR, having a bunch of cows fenced in all their lives and fed up so they'll become fat so you can send them to a slaughter house and eat? same with pigs and chicken. as for fish, the ones that arent farm raised (which is the same thing as cattle farms basically) the majority of the other fish we eat were caught by dragging a huge net through the ocean or river and scooping up anything in its path, then left on deck to suffocate to death so we can eat it. lets hear it????

Dare2BSquare 01-22-2007 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike001 (Post 48038)
To each his own. I've been doin it for years. When we wheel we take some beer with us too its just something we do not to get drunk though.

I'll still pass on goin' wheeling or hunting wif ya. If it's your thing you take the responsibility. I prefer not to mix guns or driving and alcohol .


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