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-   -   RE 4.5" lift or peice one together (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/re-4-5-lift-or-peice-one-together-56028.html)

MikalCarbine 07-22-2010 05:35 PM

RE 4.5" lift or peice one together
 
Now that I'm out of school and working I have a decent pile of money to put into my jeep. Before I go ahead and commit to anything I want to plan out every part I *think* I'll need. I've decided against going with 35's despite my desperate want to (lol) because in the long run it'll cost way too much and require too many mods in preparation. I've decided to get a ~4" lift and go with 33's and gear for that (4.27 or 4.56?).

My question is about the lift. I see that the RE 4.5" lift is about $1500 for the kit and it doesn't come with shocks. I was curious if building a 4" lift based off of OME 4" coils would be beneficial and maybe even cheaper. Any input?

4Jeepn 07-22-2010 05:48 PM

Fo 1500 you should get the sye kit included with that.. its a good kit, I have run 2 of them on my TJ's. As for building up, anything with OME is not cheap. Usually you will find that you can save money buying the kit vs parts and building. However going the part build direction does give you a chance to upgrade certain items that might not be as good in the kits. As for kits also check the currie kit.

30-284 07-22-2010 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine (Post 697812)
I have a decent pile of money to put into my jeep.

Don't that one too often!

Donn

Schmo 07-22-2010 06:04 PM

x2 on checking out the Currie 4" kit . . . it's probably the only "kit" I've seen that comes with all quality components. Usually each kit has a weak area . . . for RE it's their control arms . . . specifically the bushings. Usually I would recommend piecing the kit together with quality parts, but looking at what Currie has put together, I have a hard time finding a problem with any of the parts they've selected

KBR97 07-22-2010 06:38 PM

piece one together or at least get different control arms. RE has crap bushings

MikalCarbine 07-22-2010 06:41 PM

This the kit you all speak of?

Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts

It comes with an anti-rock swaybar, I'm already getting wet... but it comes at a price, $1800. I noticed most of the parts are Currie and Johnny Joint, never heard of the latter, they are good quality though? I'm going to start diving into reviews. I wish this kit had a SYE with it though..

Schmo 07-22-2010 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine (Post 697913)
This the kit you all speak of?

Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts

It comes with an anti-rock swaybar, I'm already getting wet... but it comes at a price, $1800. I noticed most of the parts are Currie and Johnny Joint, never heard of the latter, they are good quality though? I'm going to start diving into reviews. I wish this kit had a SYE with it though..

Yeah that's a sweet kit . . . I wish I would have gone that route to begin with. Johhny Joint is simply the type of joint that Currie uses in their control arms, and that many other companies get from them to use in CAs, track bars, etc. The Johhny Joints are named after John Currie.

MikalCarbine 07-22-2010 08:44 PM

Good to know, I'll keep researching

IndyJeepMan 07-22-2010 08:51 PM

If you are going to get seperate control arms Id go with Rokmen's.

They are really tough and they can come with johnny joints. Currie is a good MFG thats for sure though!

MikalCarbine 07-23-2010 06:21 AM

What kind of coils does this kit come with? Also, any recommendations on shocks, what size will I need to match the lift

Six Gun Matt 07-23-2010 10:10 AM

I still don't see why you don't want to go with 35" tires? Your profile says you have a dana 44 in the rear, and that's usually the biggest expense. a 4" lift should have no problem fitting 35" tires, just adjust your bumpstops accordingly. I found that the price for a 33x12.50/r15 Mickey Thompson Baja MTZ is only around $20 less than a 35x12.50/r15.

The Currie system is actually something I was looking at originally, but then I sprung for the RE long arm kit. I wish the control arms came with johnny joints, but the benefits of having a long arm suspension with the tri link rear truss at a "decent" price won me over.

As far as gearing goes, that will depend a little on your transmission. If you have a manual transmission or a 4 speed automatic, the 4.56 should be great. It would also work for a 3 speed automatic, but you might consider something a bit higher, like 4.27 or 4.10.

Schmo 07-23-2010 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine (Post 698311)
What kind of coils does this kit come with? Also, any recommendations on shocks, what size will I need to match the lift

I'm pretty sure the Currie kit comes with progressive springs . . . I heard some good things about them on the web but don't have any experience with them and really haven't talked to many guys that have the Currie springs. RE's springs have a reputation for being a little taller than advertized . . . so a 3.5 is probably 4-4.5 . . . I haven't heard many complaints about the RE springs sagging like many tend to. Check out Bilistin shocks . . . I've always heard good things about them . . . OME also have a good reputation for providing a smooth on-road ride, but I'm not sure how they are off-road.

MikalCarbine 07-23-2010 04:44 PM

I always thought 35's needed a little more than 33's or is it just long control arms? I know I'll probably start one of those big wars by asking this but do you need to upgrade your axle shafts to run 35s? I thought that was another necessary. Other than that for 20/tire and maybe 100+ for the higher gear ratio (than 33's would require) I'm better off going 35s...

AzTJ 07-23-2010 04:50 PM

With a D44 in the rear, 35's are not much of an issue... the D30 u-joints in the front would be the first thing to pop if anything.

The Currie kit is very (pricey) nice, and is complete, which is good. I'm pretty sure the coils that come with the Currie kit are the new RubiconExpress progressive ones. But with 4" of lift, you'll still need an SYE and CV shaft for the rear, so figure in another $300-400, not including install unless you are going to do it yourself.

If you are planing on 33-35" tires, there are a number of ways to get those tires to fit. Especially if you are worried with height. You could always get a 1" Body lift, 2" BB and some high-line style fenders and be set. It REALLY depends on the look you want or the performance.

MikalCarbine 07-23-2010 04:53 PM

I'd also need shocks which would be another 150-400.. I'd really like to stay away from a body lift, I've always wanted TnT fenders (not high line) and I've seen 35s fit nice under them with a little cutting on the rear and a 4.5" lift. The fenders are expensive though and I'm talking a few thousand now over what I wanted to spend :(

AzTJ 07-23-2010 04:59 PM

Here is an older picture I have, and if I remember right, he is using JKS control arms (all 8), OME shocks with RE 3.5 springs and a 1" body lift and is running 35" tires.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...C/red-tj05.jpg

Then there is this guy who has a 2" lift (poly spacers and new shocks) with regular(non-hyline) TNT fenders and running 37" tires.
http://tntcustoms.com/images/product...l/DSC08022.JPG

AzTJ 07-23-2010 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine (Post 698863)
I'd also need shocks which would be another 150-400.. I'd really like to stay away from a body lift, I've always wanted TnT fenders (not high line) and I've seen 35s fit nice under them with a little cutting on the rear and a 4.5" lift. The fenders are expensive though and I'm talking a few thousand now over what I wanted to spend :(

Body lifts are nothing, especially a 1" one when you need just a little more clearance.

For your budget.. $1500?

2" Budget boost w/ shocks = $300
1" Body lift = $100
Tube fenders front = $550
Tube fenders rear = $600
Total = $1550 (no shipping included)

This will give you room for 35" tires and not need a SYE and CV shaft. Plus you can always upgrade control arms as you go and lift higher if you want.

Just another idea. :firedevil:

MikalCarbine 07-23-2010 05:51 PM

I'm willing to spend roughly $4000-$5000 on the whole project (excluding gears). Basically what I mean is all of the suspension requirements (shocks, coils, etc), drivetrain upgrades (SYE) and tires. For some reason I was doubling the price of those fenders, they are much cheaper than I thought. I'd really rather not skimp and use quality products with my baby and do it right the first time. Just when I have my mind set on one thing you guys go ahead and stirr up my feelings for 35s haha. I'm going to play around with what lift I want with tube fenders now. I'm thinking a 3.5" SL, no BL, tube fenders, SYE if necessary (or tcase drop temporarily) and 35's might cut the bill. I'm assuming I'll need trackbar relocation with this or even an adjustable rear/front trackbar with 3.5" of lift. This all being said I'm going to set out on a little research and post my findings. Feel free to add comments to this!

Btw, AzTJ, do you have pictures of your rig? It is such a ball tease in your avatar and I love how it looks!

AzTJ 07-23-2010 06:02 PM

Pics of my TJ are in my Jeep Profile. :D

I've got an RE 3.5 with 32's because it's 98% DD w/ D35 rear and 3.07's. :D

In all honestly, I think you got the right mind set on "doing it right" as did I. I changed the WHOLE suspension and got the SYE right off the bat. If you are looking at 35's and a full suspension then I'd look at kits that offer this:

Front and Rear Adjustable Track Bars (rear relocation bracket)
Lower Control Arms (adjustable would be nice, but not needed)
Adjustable Upper Arms (needed)

AzTJ 07-23-2010 06:13 PM

I'd set aside at least $1200-1500 for wheels and tires right off the bat.

Here's a sample list of something I'd consider doing if you are thinking of the Currie kit.

Currie TJ/LJ 4" SUSPENSION SYSTEM W/ ANTIROCK & HEAVY REAR SPRINGS FOR UP TO 35" -$1800

CURRIE TJ/LJ JOHNNY JOINT REAR TRAC BAR - $220

2x Bilstein 5100 TJ 97-06 Standard Rear (+) 4" of Lift - $164

2x Bilstein 5100 TJ 97-06 Standard Front (+) 4" of Lift - $164

Front Tube Fenders - 3" TJ/LJ - $550

TREKS Full length corner armor with 3" flare - $595

This puts you close to $4k without shipping charges, and then you're still looking @ and SYE and gears (+$2k). I'd give Jason @ 4x4GroupBuy a call and see if he can set you up with a package deal or something though.

Again, there are other ways of fitting 35's like I said. ;)

Jerry Bransford 07-23-2010 06:30 PM

I've had a bunch of various suspension lift brands in my last Jeep (ProComp, Tera, Rock Krawler, Rubicon Express) and now have an all Currie 4" kit in my new-to-me '04 Rubicon. Quality-wise, Currie is very hard to beat and their Johnnie-Joints (named after Currie's son John) are the standard by which others are measured.

Personally, I also had good luck with my previous Rubicon Express 4.5" long-arm suspension but long-arms don't do so well on the big rocks so I'm happy to have Currie's shorter arms now.

Regarding 35" tires and the possible need for beefed up axle shafts, that's a good idea on the axles that have lockers in them. The front is actually a little more in need of alloy axle shafts when 35" tires and a locker is installed into it than the rear Dana 44 is. Though I did manage to twist (but not break) my rear Dana 44's first set of OE axle shafts with 35" tires and its Detroit Locker.

The TJ's front u-joints are actually Dana 44 size u-joints so once you get alloy axle shafts with their hardened ears to keep the u-joints in place, they hold together pretty well. The most common reason the front axle OE u-joints fail isn't really due as much to their strength as it is the axle shafts themselves not hardened at their "ears" where they hold the u-joints. The u-joints can pull free of the soft unhardend ears on the OE axle shafts, spin, then break up. Hardened alloy axle shafts have hardened ears which hang onto the u-joints far better which prevents the usual types of u-joint breakage.

Jason at 4x4GroupBuy is a good source for Currie stuff, so is my buddy Gerald at Savvy Offroad who is also a Currie dealer. I'm betting Gerald's prices are probably a little better right now, especially if you tell him I sent you. :)

MikalCarbine 07-23-2010 07:14 PM

Aww you had me all worked up AzTJ, nice rig though! thanks for taking the time to whip up that build too

Your previous post raised a few questions with my situation, this is my 100% DD as of now, I know I'm going to take a hit in mileage from the 35's, does anyone know what ballpark (geared at 3.73 and correctly at 4.88)? Right now I average about 16.5-17.5 MPG mixed highway/street with 31x10.5's. Also, would 35's be un-driveable at 3.73 for a DD? I really need to play with the order in which I buy everything for this build, especially the gearing. This factor may force me to gear prior to even getting the 35's since it's my DD. Eventually I will be getting a beater commuter car to help deal with commuting.

I started looking into Metalcloaks, I like the extra clearnace they give over other tube fenders (not sure if that applys to TnT, I know TnT isn't your normal tube fender either). I'm starting to look at them too but I don't like how you need to buy a separate 4" flare. I'm pretty sure with CT law I'll need 4" of flare to be even semi-legal on street, this adds a good 300 to the price. However, metalcloaks seem more complete than TnT's (wheel well coverage by engine bay sides, replacement battery tray).

Also, I've heard with metalcloaks that you can run 35's with no lift. This will definitely give the Jeep a buggy look but I am considering this for the time being. Depending on how money fairs out I can THEN decide whether or not I want a budget lift for the time being or a quality lift like a Currie. As of this moment I have $2k cash saved up for this and the rest will come on a per paycheck basis.

Jerry thank you for chiming in, your input definitely set the answer on Currie vs RE lifts. It also made me paranoid about my front axle shafts :eek: Do you have any comments about my build order above? I think you can all see why I wanted 33s to begin with, so I had the money to do everything right from the start, but you've all gotten my 35's itch going crazy

AzTJ 07-23-2010 07:37 PM

Actually, the TNT is COMPLETE. You don't need to buy the flare.
Front Tube Fender - 4.5" (TJ/LJ)

The MetalCloak you need to buy the fender ($600) and then the flare to bolt on ($250)

MikalCarbine 07-23-2010 07:47 PM

I'll probably just stick with TnT because it's cheaper then, can you stuff a 35" under them with no lift? I know you can with 2" or so. I emailed them a while back and they said 3-4" is the perfect spot for those flares and 35s

AzTJ 07-23-2010 07:48 PM

I'd install a 2" BB just in case.

AzTJ 07-23-2010 07:51 PM

You can drive 35's with 3.73's... auto? It should be ok, but might suck on hills. As far as how much of a hit in MPG, it'll be a significant one.

MikalCarbine 07-23-2010 08:23 PM

I have a 5 speed, still doable? I'm worried about the MPG hit, I couldn't afford 10MPG with my daily commute. And the cost of gearing all adds up. This is why I was considering 33s to begin with, maybe I should've said some of this from the start, my bad. I'm starting to think back to 33's but with tubes this time around, maybe run with stock suspension for a little too. I could easily afford that with the money I have now + one more paycheck. The only thing I wouldn't want to do is gear for the 33's unless I was 100% I was going to stay with them. Looks like I still have some thinking to do..

Edit: Haha I noticed you changed your subtitle recently

AzTJ 07-23-2010 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine (Post 699029)
Edit: Haha I noticed you changed your subtitle recently

Have been getting a lot of questions about it lately. :D

Yeah, 35's would suck with a 5-speed, and yeah probably figure 10mpg. That's why I'm looking for a 2nd vehicle so I don't care what the TJ gets. If you are thinking 33's, go with a 3" lift... 2" BB and 1" Body lift. Plenty of clearance, especially if you do go with tube fenders. I think it would look pretty sweet set up like that. And then when you regear, go up one set and then upgrade to 35's.

Schmo 07-23-2010 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikalCarbine (Post 699029)
I have a 5 speed, still doable? I'm worried about the MPG hit, I couldn't afford 10MPG with my daily commute. And the cost of gearing all adds up. This is why I was considering 33s to begin with, maybe I should've said some of this from the start, my bad. I'm starting to think back to 33's but with tubes this time around, maybe run with stock suspension for a little too. I could easily afford that with the money I have now + one more paycheck. The only thing I wouldn't want to do is gear for the 33's unless I was 100% I was going to stay with them. Looks like I still have some thinking to do..

Edit: Haha I noticed you changed your subtitle recently

33's with 373 should be okay . . . I run 33's with a 6 speed and 410 and it's better than stock as long as I keep it above 65 I don't usually have to drop into 5th on hills etc. 35s on the other hand with 373 will turn your Jeep into a bit of a dog. If your commute is all flat it might not be something you couldn't deal with for a little time, but you'd really need to regear with 35s and could probably get by without regearing on 33s. 33's with a 4" lift and I usually get 13-14 MPG. Nice thing about a 4" set up is you have the option to go to 35's with a 1" BL, or some fender triming, tube fenders, etc. Gives you more options to do things in phases and get everything built up and when your 33's wear out get the 35's. Be sure to address the stock steering if you haven't already . . . it's cheezy and many a trail has been turned into a traffic jam by a guy running the stock steering and big tires.

MikalCarbine 07-24-2010 11:35 AM

I'm going to see if I can get some kind of free SYE package from 4x4groupbuy with the Currie 4" SA lift. AA SYE any good? If I can get a free SYE included I'll be looking at about 2300 for the lift, shocks and rear trac bar. What does upgraded steering improve? Do you mean the gearbox or the steering components in the front? If I can skimp with just the gearbox I'll pull one from a Durango and call it a day for now. I figure once I lift it and put 33's along with the necessities on it I'll start slowly building everything else that isn't so required but helps


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