Jeep Wrangler Forum

Jeep Wrangler Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/)
-   TJ General Discussion Forum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/)
-   -   Front end Shimmy (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/front-end-shimmy-58846.html)

Cdubu52 08-20-2010 09:52 AM

Front end Shimmy
 
Ok, I know that this has been addressed a bunch, but I have a few questions. Let me start this off by saying, I do not have DW. I have a shimmy around 60mph. I am currently running BFG MT 32's on JK wheels with Spidertrax adapters. The shimmy was there before the new tires and I thought was gone, but is now back. From the research on the forum, I know it is probably a tire issue, but I just had them balanced less than 2 weeks ago. Also does it make a difference that the shimmy is less when I engage 4wd Hi. Does that mean its more than likely an alignment problem because there is less push on the front end? Could it be a toe-in problem? I just need some help before I go spending a ton of money on parts that I dont need. Should the smartest thing be to have the tires balanced again and get an alignment?

mrcarcrazy 08-20-2010 11:49 AM

First thing is to take it back to be rebalanced. make sure they do a dynamic (or dual plane) balance instead of the regular single that they love to do on truck tires.

Then you can check your toe by yourself....its pretty simple and easy. but you could pay someone if you feel like it.

a 60mph shimmy is most often tire balance.

Cdubu52 08-31-2010 08:18 AM

OK, I still need help. I just had the tires balanced again and had an OME Steering Stabilizer installed and the Shimmy is still there, maybe even worse than before. I installed the SS for the new tires, not to fix the shimmy. What is the next step, where should I look next. I have been under the Jeep checking all of the connections, everything seems fine. Should I start with the Ball Joints, or check the Track Bar Bushings? Im really kind of stumped and need some direction.

THanks

bones23 08-31-2010 12:05 PM

Ok, I have a similar issue to this, I've had 4 different places balance the tires all saying it is the best they can get due to only being able to put weights on the back.
I have been monitoring air pressure in all tires since mine seems to reduce when tires are warmed up a bit and expand.
Does anyone here have an opinion (ha dumb question) on the impact of tire width to rim width inluencing the amount of shimmy or inability to balance correctly? For example 12.5in tires on 15x10 rims worse than 10.5 tires on same rim.
Thanks

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2010 12:22 PM

The bigger the tire, the harder it is to balance on a conventional tire balancing machine so it is perfectly balanced. Shimmy is generally always a tire or wheel balance problem so I would call around until I found a tire shop that has the "Road Force" tire balancing machine that is better able to get big tires perfectly balanced.

A shimmy is never directly caused by a bad front-end alignment. Though a bad front-end alignment could quickly ruin your front tires enough to cause a shimmy.

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2010 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bones23 (Post 751728)
Does anyone here have an opinion (ha dumb question) on the impact of tire width to rim width inlfuencing the amount of shimmy or inability to balance correctly? For example 12.5in tires on 15x10 rims worse than 10.5 tires on same rim.
Thanks

Wheel width (within reason) won't affect balance and never install 10.5" wide tires on a 10" wide wheel. At the widest, a 10.5" wide tire should never be on any wheel wider than 8" with a 7" wide wheel being better for that width tire. A tire's width is measured at its widest point which is at the half-way point up its sidewall, it is not the tire's tread width or bead width. :)

Cdubu52 08-31-2010 12:56 PM

next step? Road Force balancing and Alignment?

King of Beers 08-31-2010 01:04 PM

What about installing Dyna beads.

I have never used them but I have heard good things about them. I am going to be buying some BFG MTs soon and I am considering using them.

Perhaps somone who has used them or knows more about them could chime in.

Cdubu52 08-31-2010 01:25 PM

Road Force Balance scheduled for tomorrow morning. We will see where we are from there.

mcgyver1467 08-31-2010 01:39 PM

Wheel bearings??????

bones23 08-31-2010 01:51 PM

Thank you Jerry and others for quick responses. I will try and set up a "Road Force" balancing myself, however I was told by one of major tire shops, (starts with DIS) that there is no difference, alas I will travel onward to find the elusive cure.

Thanks again.

Jerry Bransford 08-31-2010 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bones23 (Post 751857)
Thank you Jerry and others for quick responses. I will try and set up a "Road Force" balancing myself, however I was told by one of major tire shops, (starts with DIS) that there is no difference...

It was Discount Tire who finally told me I had to use the Road Force machine (which costs more to use) to get my tires balanced well enough to get rid of a shimmy. I have learned over the years that no standard tire balance machine gets my 35" tires consistently balanced well enough. Only a tire store without a Road Force machine would say it makes no difference.

Cdubu52 08-31-2010 03:42 PM

When I called about getting my tires balanced the person helping me noted that with 32" tires and wheel adapters and MT's, I already had things working against me, when it comes to balancing the tire. I responded that these wheels and tires are stock on 09 Rubicon's. He didnt have much of a response. He did say that he would do the best to get me balanced, and that is when I requested the Road Force. He agrees that is the best option for the MT's.

bones23 08-31-2010 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 751928)
It was Discount Tire who finally told me I had to use the Road Force machine (which costs more to use) to get my tires balanced well enough to get rid of a shimmy. I have learned over the years that no standard tire balance machine gets my 35" tires consistently balanced well enough. Only a tire store without a Road Force machine would say it makes no difference.

I will definately check it out. The money spent is worth it for me.

Thanks again for your time and info.

Jeepinjeepin 08-31-2010 05:27 PM

Check the play in your front track bar.

rrich 08-31-2010 06:51 PM

And - you mentioned they are only putting the weights on the inside - that alone can cause trouble. If the heavy spot of the tire is near the outside and you weight the inside, you automatically get a "twist" to the tire. The practice was started for "pretty" mag wheels.
Sure, tape-a-weights aren't pretty, but use them on both inside and outside.

A road force machine compensates not just for heavy spots, but also the spots that are slightly weaker causing a bounce. It's well worth the extra time and cost. But - it needs an experienced operator. Again, use weight both inside and outside.

Of course shops that don't have one will say it's worthless.

Do a search on yahoo or google for "Hunter balancing machines" website. Then look at the Road Force Balancers. Their website explains how it works and can help you find who has one in your area.

The beads, rings, marbles, liquids, BB's, and other "magic" things aren't very satisfactory. Most folks that try them get rid of them eventually.

scottydawg03 02-21-2012 07:36 AM

jeep front end shimmy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cdubu52 (Post 733434)
Ok, I know that this has been addressed a bunch, but I have a few questions. Let me start this off by saying, I do not have DW. I have a shimmy around 60mph. I am currently running BFG MT 32's on JK wheels with Spidertrax adapters. The shimmy was there before the new tires and I thought was gone, but is now back. From the research on the forum, I know it is probably a tire issue, but I just had them balanced less than 2 weeks ago. Also does it make a difference that the shimmy is less when I engage 4wd Hi. Does that mean its more than likely an alignment problem because there is less push on the front end? Could it be a toe-in problem? I just need some help before I go spending a ton of money on parts that I dont need. Should the smartest thing be to have the tires balanced again and get an alignment?

i was chasing this issue for about 40000 miles! front end shimmy about 57 mph ..tried multiple tire swaps, multiple balances, shook down EVERYTHING in front end. Tires would cup badly, replaced stabilizer per jeep tsb bulletin,,,,,nothing worked. the answer...... sway bar links! could not feel any play in them while checking in the air. Finally one started to pop when going over bumps so I replaced both sides (about 38 each). The one that was popping was obviously bad, the other actually came off in two pieces. Many people will tell you that these links can not cause a shimmy because they have run their jeep with no sway bar attached.. this is b.s. it CAN and WILL. i know by PERSONAL experience,, remove the bottom mounting bolt for each link (you will need a torx socket and an 18 mm wrench, and then push up and down with your hand on the joint at the top of the link and feel for play. ) hope this helps someone,,,alot better advise than your rotors are warped or you need an alignment..LOL

Rubicondon53 02-21-2012 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottydawg03
i was chasing this issue for about 40000 miles! front end shimmy about 57 mph ..tried multiple tire swaps, multiple balances, shook down EVERYTHING in front end. Tires would cup badly, replaced stabilizer per jeep tsb bulletin,,,,,nothing worked. the answer...... sway bar links! could not feel any play in them while checking in the air. Finally one started to pop when going over bumps so I replaced both sides (about 38 each). The one that was popping was obviously bad, the other actually came off in two pieces. Many people will tell you that these links can not cause a shimmy because they have run their jeep with no sway bar attached.. this is b.s. it CAN and WILL. i know by PERSONAL experience,, remove the bottom mounting bolt for each link (you will need a torx socket and an 18 mm wrench, and then push up and down with your hand on the joint at the top of the link and feel for play. ) hope this helps someone,,,alot better advise than your rotors are warped or you need an alignment..LOL

Hmmm.. Never heard that one... I've run with mine disconnected a lot, after wheelin all day, just too lazy to reconnect them while coming home, or on 50+ miles of pavement till next trail.. The sway bar has little to do with front end shimmy, I think you may only be masking the shimmy.. The last time I allowed an alignment shop that "specialized" in jeeps,(, LOL,, ) they had set my toe in at 13/16nths".. It should be no more than 1/8" and no less than 1/16". I too had the same shimmy, and my KMs were wearing and cupping on the insides... It's easy to check, and adjust.. You'll never use an alignment shop again... Just my 3 cents, ;)

Imped 02-21-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottydawg03 (Post 2056544)
i was chasing this issue for about 40000 miles! front end shimmy about 57 mph ..tried multiple tire swaps, multiple balances, shook down EVERYTHING in front end. Tires would cup badly, replaced stabilizer per jeep tsb bulletin,,,,,nothing worked. the answer...... sway bar links! could not feel any play in them while checking in the air. Finally one started to pop when going over bumps so I replaced both sides (about 38 each). The one that was popping was obviously bad, the other actually came off in two pieces. Many people will tell you that these links can not cause a shimmy because they have run their jeep with no sway bar attached.. this is b.s. it CAN and WILL. i know by PERSONAL experience,, remove the bottom mounting bolt for each link (you will need a torx socket and an 18 mm wrench, and then push up and down with your hand on the joint at the top of the link and feel for play. ) hope this helps someone,,,alot better advise than your rotors are warped or you need an alignment..LOL

Sway bar links have absolutely NOTHING to do with constraining the front end and I'm telling you from personal experience. Your shimmy wasn't caused by that.

OP, think about this in a logical manner. WHY would your front end shimmy? Because 1) it's not being held in place tight enough and/or 2) the parts that do hold it in place (constrain) can't control the tire's natural tendency to wobble. Those parts are the 4 control arms and the track bar. A minor shimmy can be caused by play in a TRE or hub bearing. Do the dry steering test so that the root cause is exposed and go from there. This is nothing more than a simple cause and effect problem....do a little root cause analysis and you'll find the problem.

TheTJRod 02-21-2012 10:46 AM

We have 20 wear points on the front end. 22 counting the tires. It's no wonder we have so many front end problems.

Imped 02-21-2012 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTJRod (Post 2057210)
We have 20 wear points on the front end. 22 counting the tires. It's no wonder we have so many front end problems.

I prefer to keep the tires out of the equation, at least initially. A stout, tight front end with good durable parts can handle unbalanced tires without issue. It's all about the components' ability to withstand the forces caused by unbalanced tires and bumps in the road. Worn out rubber bushings, flexible linkage, and dinky TRE's don't do that very well. You're dealing with a bunch of stacked tolerances in that scenario, which leaves you with steering play and a poor ability to keep things together.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 AM.